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Thread: 5A1. Chess in a COVID-19 Environment

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aris Marghetis View Post
    Yes, I understand and appreciate your point. I guess if the rear-side camera is good enough, we can skip this step, and replace it instead with something like:

    Another possibility, which was Fred's good idea, especially as the pandemic winds down, is that the appealing player is simply matched against a CFC rep to play against, in a semi-public place (can include a local chess club). As long as there's a way for an appealing player to prove themselves without any cheating doubt.

    The CFC rep-player would be appointed by the CFC, which could actually be a new CFC Online Commitee that receives appeals to Fair Play -related suspensions.
    That would be nice if the player plays consistently. More then one game should be played if the player is inconsistent. I agree that fighting cheating in the lower levelz is error prone. As a former member of the Rule Commission ounce told me : FIDE makes rules for serious players (read high rated players). This is why you will not see a rule for intentional illegal moves for example. Professional chess players do not risk their reputation doing that. The FIDE anti cheating rules also targets serious play. Statistical analysis is much better with more games and serious players have their games in databases. For weaker players, we may have to contact their opponents in OTB tournaments to get real games.

    We cannot give-up because the task is hard. I was part of the team that caught the first convicted Quebec OTB cheater and I can confirm that is not easy to obtain the required level of confidence.

  2. #22
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    In some cases it is very obvious. Literally blundering ten or more times in every game and a week or two later playing like a master.

  3. #23

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    Interesting discussion so far about the online cheating issue.

    For what is worth, I have played extensively in FICS since at least 2008, Chess.com since at least 2010, and Lichess since last year. And I have played in 7 CFC-rated online tournaments (mind you with not much success :-) and many non-rated but still CFC-organized evening tournaments/arenas. And I have never found that opening other windows or programs (much less unrelated programs such as Word) would raise any suspicion of cheating. I used to play in Chess.com while listening to music in Youtube and also while doing some work (Word. Excel and an specific program related to my real job as a scientist), or reading news in CBC. I do not think those things actually helped my chess play (probably the contrary!), but I never experienced any problem with a false positive of cheating because of multiple windows opened.

    Lately, when I have played in CFC-rated events I have decided to close all windows/programs except for the one where the tournament is being held (Lichess or Chess.com). But not because of fear of false positives for cheating, but because we have experienced (and I wrote "we" because it happened to several players in at least a couple of those CFC-rated tournaments) sometimes minor problems with the online platform where the games were being held. For example, I have experienced two times that the game would start (in Lichess) and I could not see the pieces on the (virtual) board, so that was forced to play blind for a few moves -until someone in the tournament kindly advise me to close everything and restart the entire thing. I was lucky that those cases happened while in Lichess (as that suggestion works in Lichess), but actually in Chess.com if you close its window it is considered as abandoning the game and you lose... Bottom line, there are indeed technical problems (not responsibilities of CFC or the individual player) and I am sure that more will appear (and others may have experienced worse problems than mine). But I am not 100% sold on the fear of being falsely caught "cheating" just because there are other programs opened, and I wondered if that has been used as an excuse some times...

    In the two examples that I am aware of cheating (concerning the CFC), I lost two games versus two players on a non rated evening arena with the Maritime Chess Club (I do not know the names and do not need nor want to know the names of those involved, but apparently they were young players). I did not even suspect of any foul play, but the next day I received a notification from Lichess saying that I had been in two games with two cheaters and thus Lichess awarded me a few extra points for those two unfair loses I had versus them. For me, I was fine and willing to forgive that, as long as they could be educated on how wrong that was and not to repeat it in the future. Perhaps some young players do not fully realize that looking at some chess engine for help while playing online is cheating, perhaps they did it "for fun" without bad intentions per se, perhaps some more education and awareness is needed... I am not judging at all, but my point here is that a) Lichess caught them right away, and b) they apparently did cheat, it was not a false positive.

    I am sure that there are more serious examples, and for sure adults are as prone to cheat as young players (and I guess that I would be less forgiving to adults). In any case, there will always be obstacles and no one can fully prevent nor detect cheating. Not even OTB is exempt of that, although obviously online chess is more prone to that. But we must persevere and continue trying to improve the ways to catch cheating.

    I generally like the ideas that have been discussed so far, and having some general guidelines for CFC-rated events indeed helps. We could also search for what others have been doing in other countries (I remember a recent post in this Forum where someone shared a pdf article about this situation in England). We can learn from others and from previous experiences on the issue.

    I agree with Aris that perhaps a commission should be created to deal with this, and some general guidelines are needed.

    I also want to express my most sincere gratitude and appreciation to all TDs that have already organized CFC-rated online tournaments. You are indeed pioneers and your awesome work should be more recognized and celebrated.

    Cheers,
    Jose

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    In some cases it is very obvious. Literally blundering ten or more times in every game and a week or two later playing like a master.
    Cheaters are like thieves. There are wise thieves and dumb thieves. On thief did try to enter by the air duct, got struck, was saved by the Fire Department and was arrested immediately. Another thief stole banks in Germany and in France without any disguise and is in jail because of the security cameras. Some thieves are much wiser.

    Some cheaters are easy to catch because they are reckless. The Quebec cheater was wise enough not to cheat in FIDE rated events where controls are stricter and a win against a GM would have have been very suspicious, much more suspicious then a win against an higher rated amateur player. Dr, Reagan conclusion was that the player has been clean in FIDE rated events.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre Dénommée View Post
    Cheaters are like thieves. There are wise thieves and dumb thieves. On thief did try to enter by the air duct, got struck, was saved by the Fire Department and was arrested immediately. Another thief stole banks in Germany and in France without any disguise and is in jail because of the security cameras. Some thieves are much wiser.

    Some cheaters are easy to catch because they are reckless. The Quebec cheater was wise enough not to cheat in FIDE rated events where controls are stricter and a win against a GM would have have been very suspicious, much more suspicious then a win against an higher rated amateur player. Dr, Reagan conclusion was that the player has been clean in FIDE rated events.
    In the case of very young children who are not of an age where their moral character is fully formed, I would not be so harsh. Kids make mistakes and impulsive decisions and sometimes are spoiled and not accustomed to being told no. They want to win at all costs and get angry when they can't win every game. Our job is to guide them back on the right path.

  6. #26
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    Just in my email is a letter from FIDE president Arkady Dvorkovich:

    "Dear chess friends,

    I believe there is a consensus that computer-assisted cheating is a real plague of contemporary chess.

    We have already taken strong steps to enhance our efficiency in fighting it, including strengthening analytical tools, using detectors and scanners in all official FIDE events, training arbiters, finding a right legal basis, and having a dedicated team working on these matters.

    The online chess boom brought new challenges, and although the number of suspicious cases is fairly low, FIDE must act vigorously, sending a clear message to potential violators in order to create a secure environment in our competitions.

    We work together with the leading online chess platforms. We have adjusted the algorithms used for online play. Having a lot of data, we sharpened our statistical methods – and in these regards, I’d like to thank Professor Ken Reagan, who keeps improving his algorithm – and those who think his method does not work against the so-called smart cheaters, they will be surprised.

    We must act, and I want to emphasize that FIDE will be ready for the ensuing legal challenges.

    However, I feel that we need a broad consensus on the measures applied. Below are the main questions we would like to have your opinion on:

    1. Our methods of detection, although very advanced and ever-improving, can't provide a 100% confirmation. In many cases, the probability estimated is higher than the one for DNA tests. Do you believe a statistical algorithm (or a combination of those) giving close to 100% probability of cheating could stand as sufficient grounds for banning a player? If yes - what odds would you find sufficient?

    2. Shall FIDE apply sanctions for alleged online violations to over-the-board-play (and vice versa)?

    3. Shall we apply sanctions for alleged violations at platforms’ own events, and other unofficial online events, to official FIDE online events (and vice versa)?

    4. Shall we publish the names of alleged violators after the very first conviction?

    5. Shall the violators be punished retroactively, with their prize money, rating and titles been revoked for some period preceding the verdict? And, if yes, how far back should these actions go?

    6. What would you consider a reasonable banning period for first-time violators, and for repeat offenders? How strict should be the measures in youth competitions?

    There are many questions and some of them are related to the moral and legal aspects of the subject. Having a fair and transparent system will require a trusted framework. The worst thing to do would be to accuse and ban an innocent player.

    Likewise, the reputation of chess and our global chess family could suffer tremendous damage if a tsunami of scandals and court procedures starts to overshadow the exciting environment of international chess competitions. We must be strict, but responsible. Firm, but accountable. And before approving a general policy, we would like to hear your opinions. You may answer the questions raised in this communication or simply submit your proposals to the following email: anticheating@fide.com.

    It is going to be a long battle, but I am sure we will succeed."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    Vlad mentioned camera monitoring.
    Is anyone currently doing that for ONL in Canada?
    In May, BCCF co-organized an online tournament, the Intermat, with the Washington State Chess Federation. It was originally an annual OTB event (since 1991) between 2 elite junior players of each grade from each province/state, thus a total of 26 players each side. Deu to the pandemic, it was turned into an online tournament on chess.com with Zoom video & audio monitoring. It was unrated and no prize money was involved, it was a friendly match with the hornor of representing the province and state in an international chess event. We had two TDs (one form each team) and 4 helpers (two from each side) to monitor the 56 players via Zoom, I was one of the helper. The temptation to cheat was very low. We had a great event and everything turns out fine. Details here - http://chess2inspire.org/2020-intermat-bc-vs-washington.

    From my experience with video monitoring, it is not a perfect solution. In the Intermat, we only used front cameras. Two to three of the players had technical difficulties and could not turn their camera on. It was a team tournaments and all games were paired before the tournament. We decided to allow the players to play without camera monitoring.

    The organizers discussed on asking the players to sign more than one-fair-play agreement, I objected with the point that if a player determines to cheat, it will not stop him/her from cheating no matter how many agreements they sign. Signing an agreement is more of formality and a reminder of not to cheat, not a prevention of cheating. In my opinion, video monitoring in the same token, is more of a formality and a reminder of not to cheat, but cannot prevent cheating even with front and back cameras. A 5 minutes washroom break is more than enough to analyze a move, any medium to high level player using those opportunities to analysis two to three critical positions of a game will almost certainly change the outcome of the game.

    I am also an organizer of a non-profit organization that runs provincial OTB junior tournaments before the pandemic, usually around 150 - 200 players. Our organization has decided not to run any OTD junior tournaments until a vaccine is widely available notwithstanding any relaxation of gathering regulations of the provincial health department, due to the stress and risk:
    - it will be extremely stressful if not impossible to guarantee social distancing, wearing masks, sanitizing hands, boards and sets before each game for 150-200 kids,
    - the size of the venue to guarantee social distancing will have to be a few times larger than usual, we likely will not be able to afford it,
    - we already confirmed with the insurance company we use for all of our tournaments that they will not provide any coverage on claims related to COVID-19. Although the chance is close to zero of successfully winning a case against an organizer of an event causing infection to an individual. Since there is no insurance coverage, if an individual sues the organizing organization, the organization still need to pay for the cost of legal defense, which already could easily bankrupt a non-profit organization or any organizer.

    I believe all OTB chess tournament organizers will have to face similar issues mentioned above, thus I am quite pessimistic on the speed of recovery of OTB tournaments. At least for our organization, we are estimating at least one year before we will be able to run any OTB tournaments again.
    Last edited by Michael Lo; 08-20-2020 at 10:36 AM.

  8. #28
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    I hope you are wrong about the one year time frame but I worry that you are right. We will see.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Lo View Post
    ...
    I am also an organizer of a non-profit organization that runs provincial OTB junior tournaments before the pandemic, usually around 150 - 200 players. Our organization has decided not to run any OTD junior tournaments until a vaccine is widely available notwithstanding any relaxation of gathering regulations of the provincial health department, due to the stress and risk:
    - it will be extremely stressful if not impossible to guarantee social distancing, wearing masks, sanitizing hands, boards and sets before each game for 150-200 kids,
    - the size of the venue to guarantee social distancing will have to be a few times larger than usual, we likely will not be able to afford it,
    - we already confirmed with the insurance company we use for all of our tournaments that they will not provide any coverage on claims related to COVID-19. Although the chance is close to zero of successfully winning a case against an organizer of an event causing infection to an individual. Since there is no insurance coverage, if an individual sues the organizing organization, the organization still need to pay for the cost of legal defense, which already could easy bankrupt a non-profit organization or any organizer.
    I believe all OTB chess tournament organizers will have to face similar issues mentioned above, thus I am quite pessimistic on the speed of recovery of OTB tournaments. At least for our organization, we are estimating at least one year before we will be able to run any OTB tournaments again.
    Michael, unfortunately, I agree with your assessment. Thank you for posting this.

  10. #30
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    OTB chess has restarted in various places (Iceland, Biel, Prague, Croatia, Poland) with varying degrees of medical precautions (none visible through to masks, screens, playing on separate boards), this despite the continued rise or resurgence of COVID cases. There are adverts for the National Open in Las Vegas next month which I find unimaginable given the general US situation but I'm not there. So amid all this activity does anyone know of COVID cases which have been linked to chess tournaments? I remember Irina Krush contracting the virus early on (thankfully now recovered) but I don't believe that was tournament related.

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