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Thread: WYCC Funding for CYCC Winners

  1. #1

    Default WYCC Funding for CYCC Winners

    In relation to whether the CFC should authorize players, who do not participate in the CYCC, to attend the WYCC ( with a rating and activity criteria ), John Coleman noted on ChessTalk the following:

    " The youth co-ordinator, Ellen Nadeau, has introduced this motion in GL 5:

    ... (may) participate in the CYCC, only:

    1) the qualifiers from that years YCCs

    2) the qualifiers from the CYCC to the WYCC of the previous year

    3) the highest rating of each age category as of May 1st (open and female) of each province.

    The CYCC is more-or-less self-supporting, I think, so whether or not the CFC can live with the possibility of reduced attendance is an open question. "

    As far as I am aware this motion would drastically reduce the no. of players in the CYCC traditionally, and the entrance fees ( though definitely increase the quality of tournament ).

    My question is what percentage of travel expenses to the WYCC to the winners would come under this motion from registration fees, and what from CFC general revenue? How does this compare to this past year?

    Bob

    Note: this is motion 2009-13 ( Nadeau/Lavin ); also it is in relation to CYCC 2010.
    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; 04-28-2009 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    The point of that motion is not to reduce overall participation, but to move a lot of the participation to provincial-level YCCs.

  3. #3

    Default

    Hi Chris:

    Thx. That clarifies the intent.

    But what about the result financially in terms of what the CYCC will take in? What percentage of the WYCC funding will the CFC general revenue have to bear now, with decreased CYCC participation?

    Bob

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    Default Significance of CYCC

    Hi Bob,

    The CYCC was designed initially to have qualifier events. Those events do more than just bring in money, they advertise and build up the CYCC. Presently, we have a system where the CYCC has a regular crowd of players coming from the few areas that have provincial YCCs. The YCCs bring players to the CYCC, and prepares them for a national event.

    The CFC tried the carrot approach this year: for the traditional entry fee, we decided that we should give something to organizers. I then approached all organizers in Canada and most of the time, was not even answered. The few who showed interest essentially told me: good idea but since it is not mandatory, we will not participate. Furthermore, many of the areas that organized YCCs did not even tell the Youth Coordinator or pay the traditional fee for such an event. I suspect that if we want to be respected, we, the CFC have to put standards in place and maintain them. Otherwise, the CYCC is just another Open tournament.

    Now, I get approached regularly by players telling me that the CYCC is not mandatory to participate in WYCC. I guess the next step will be to tell us that Canada should treat the WYCC as just another Open tournament, obviously raising our international chess profile...?

    Back to basics. The proposal is on the floor to be debated: YCCs would become mandatory next year with this proposal and I invite governors to get involved in this matter to decide, not on the basis on one player they know, but how a national organization should monitor our selection of the players that represent Canada. I hope that this vote will have many voters as it should not be decided by 3 for, 2 against!

    Ellen Nadeau
    CFC Youth Coordinator

  5. #5

    Default Funding of CYCC Winners to the WYCC - Will it be Sufficient?

    Hi Ellen:

    Thanks for the extended explanation of what CFC is trying to achieve.

    Making Provincial YCC's the entrance way to the CYCC, and trying to enhance their turnout seems reasonable to me. And thereby at the same time making the CYCC a quality tournament of top Canadian competition makes sense.

    But the CFC has never had money to fund the winners of the CYCC to my knowledge. The CFC has relied upon the CYCC to be self-sufficient, and , from the registration fees, and attracting numerous players ( even if not strong ), raise sufficient money to fund the prizes to the WYCC.

    My problem is that it seems the CFC will drastically reduce the income-generating potential of the CYCC with this motion. This means the CFC has to make up the shortfall out of general revenue. How can we do that, given our financial situation?

    Or is the funding of the winners to the WYCC going to be drastically reduced by this motion?

    Or do you have ideas on some other source of funds for prizes?

    Sorry to repeat myself a bit, but I like the ideas behind the motion, but don't understand the economics of it.

    Bob

  6. #6

    Default

    I'll be voting "No". Not every province hs the infrastructure necessary to implement this proposal. The CFC messed up royally when it took this event out of the hands of the CMA.

  7. #7
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    I think motions should be improved by clarifying:
    "-the qualifiers from that years YCCs" - 20th place still qualifies?

    I would suggest to add/amend " - players to be chosen by their provincial associations"
    Last edited by Egidijus Zeromskis; 04-29-2009 at 10:06 AM.
    .*-1

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    Arrow WYCC funding

    * ARRRGGHHH * (I had just typed out a lengthy response and am in a hotspot and my time timed out just before I posted ... lost it all!)

    I will try to reconstruct:

    I think that I see Ellen's intent here:

    The Provincial YCC events will be helping to raise funds for the WYCC Official Representatives:

    The Provincial YCC events will - in order to be officially recognized to be able to qualify players to the CYCC - have to submit YCC fees which are substantially more than the rating fees.

    The ultimate intent is that there will be several "Regional YCC" events which will qualify players to the Provincial YCC.

    The current structure has official Regional YCC events paying from $3 - $6 per player to be a YCC, the Provincial YCC event then pays $7 - $10 per player (this year changed to $6 per player) ... all these YCC fees are supposed to go into the WYCC "kitty" and then the CYCC raises the remaining funds.

    In all the years that I was Youth Co for the CFC I constantly was trying to get out of the office an exact accounting of the YCC funds raised through these "lead-up" events but NEVER once managed to get a proper accounting.

    For the past 10 years or so, the OYCC (the Ontario Youth Chess Championships) has been an official YCC event and has submitted the YCC fees (excepting one year) but I am still not sure that these fees were properly attributed to the WYCC fund.

    I am glad to see Ellen working towards rectifying all this.

    BTW: the OYCC 2009 is coming up on May 23/24 and already - more than 3 weeks to go still - has 75 pre-registered entries! see: www.psmcd.net/oycc2009 for more info ... pass the word on to the youth players in your area (in Ontario that is) ... this one is shaping up to be one of the most successful!
    ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
    Patrick McDonald
    International Arbiter
    International Organizer

  9. #9

    Default

    Hi Patrick:

    Thanks for the financial analysis. I was unaware of the provincial/regional YCC fees remissions to the CFC CYCC fund, and was going to suggest a surcharge of some kind on the YCC's to help raise prize fund money. Nice to know my idea is re-inventing the wheel.

    Are the regional CYCC fees remitted to the provincial association, or directly to the CFC?

    Do you know how the amount of funds raised by the $X / per head at the YCC's, compares to the $$ raised by entrance fees at the CYCC the way it is currently structured? I seem to have the impression that the CYCC registration fee was fairly substantial, and it will take quite a few players at $ 6/head to make up one current CYCC entrance fee, won't it? And there were quite a large number of entrants at the last CYCC, no??

    Again, I'm trying to see that the new motion system will generate sufficient funds for the prizes for all the CYCC groups.

    Bob

  10. #10
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    Default

    Hi Bob,

    Apologies for not responding faster: we are preparing two simultaneous tournaments over three days with a total of 350 players in Kapuskasing. Friday will be especially crazy since we add a blitz tournament and bughouse tournament... Enough said!

    I don’t quite get your fear that there will be less money with the proposed changes in the CYCC qualification. The majority of players who participate at the CYCC would qualify this way anyway and last time that I checked, the only province without a youth program - as far as I could tell, is New Brunswick - someone, please correct me fast if I am wrong... With advertised YCC’s there will be more participants progressively for the CYCC. Any income from the YCC will be returned to the youth program in form of help towards WYCC funding. One thing I have support of from this executive, is to have a separate Youth account so that the financing is clear.

    Furthermore, if we decide that a change has to be profitable before doing the right thing, I suspect that it will not evolve very quickly.

    I encourage all those who can participate in the OYCC to do so. It is a good tournament and provides quality training for CYCC and Patrick has a proven track record.

    Ellen Nadeau

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