Youth Chess Championships

[Ellen Nadeau]

Wanted: organizers and TDs
For: the new Youth Chess Championships (YCC) program
Starting: NOW!

As the national chess organization, CFC wants to see YCCs in every province and territory, and will contribute a package to encourage new and old organizers to run chess events for youth. The YCC packages will contain:
- the new CFC medals and certificates for winners
- detailed instructions and a CFC organizer shirt
- general support.
The winners of each category will be officially invited to attend the CYCC 2009 in beautiful Victoria, BC.

More information to follow, but any queries can be addressed to the CFC Youth Coordinator at my email: ellennadeau@yahoo.ca

Ellen

[Ellen Nadeau]

I have already contacted some major regions of Canada about running a YCC.
Being the large and varied country we are, I don't want to chance missing out on getting the information to everyone so I have attached some guidelines for the YCC tournaments. If anyone has questions or feedback feel free to contact me.

Ellen Nadeau
CFC Youth Coordinator

[Andrei Botez]

Hello Ellen,

I just read your document "WELCOME TO THE CFC’S YCC SERIES" and I appreciate the effort and good intention you obviously put in to it.

I have couple of questions regarding some of the points in this document: http://chesscanada.info/forum/attach...5&d=1234403508

One of the things CFC is doing to encourage TD's and Organizers to run chess events for youth is the creation of this package:

As the national chess organization, CFC wants to see YCCs in every province and territory, and will contribute a package to encourage new and old organizers to run chess events for youth. The YCC packages will contain:
- the new CFC medals and certificates for winners
- detailed instructions and a CFC organizer shirt
- general support.

The organizers, normally, must agree with:

Organizer Agrees to
- mention CFC in media and publicity
- rate the tournament CFC
- pay dues after the tournament

So far is great, the next thing is what cause me to post here:

Fee structure between CFC and Organizer
- After the tournament the organizer sends $6 per participant to the CFC but must send a minimum $200 and only to a maximum of $400.

In this $6 is included the rating fee (If the tournament is submitted electronically using Swiss Sys). A regular junior only tournament rating fee is 50 cents/player.

I found this discouraging. In the last 2 years in BC there were around 75 players in the BC-YCC final. From Organizers point of view I can see it like this:

6$/player X 75players (BC) = $450 (36 medals + 75 rating fees)
OR

$75 rating fees X 0.50$ = $36.50
$450- $36.50 = $413.50/36medals = $11.5/medal

All the organizers know that they can get chess medals as low as 1$/piece, so even if you add the T-shirt, certificates and the key-chains, that is still a long way.


Also how attractive is for the chess parent an EF in the range that you mentioned:

So EF should be $26- $36+ expenses and any organizer ‘s share, which makes it a $45- $70 Entry Fee.

.

The CYCC EF is $150, and the kids are not required to play in YCC's in order to go to CYCC (maybe this can be made mandatory), so skipping YCC (except if the kid has a huge chance to win it) will make sense.

If we want this package to be REAL encouraging for Organizers and TD's maybe will be better to offer it for the cost: $1-$2/medal, $0.50/rating fee per player (drop the T-shirt and key-chain) + shipping.

Also made the YCC mandatory for CYCC (some exceptions can be added - previously national team members or anything else).

All the best for you and your wonderful family.

Andrei

[David Lavin]

I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.

You also make a number of statements about parents and their willingness to spend money supporting their children't activities. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am curious as to how you reached these conclusions. What programs are your children enrolled in and what child related events have you organized to reach these conclusions? I have three boys and my experience is very different.

Are you planning on running a YCC tournament? If not, let's start a different thread to debate fee structures and leave this thread to the purpose it was created for, to discuss YCC events with interested organizers.

[Larry Bevand]

I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.

Hi David,

Can we at least be sure that there is no conflict of interest here. FEN is related to Ellen. You can spin that anyway that you want but it is a reality.

CMA can provide the CFC the cheap junky China produced medals for far less than what the FQE paid last year at the FQE organized, and CFC sanctioned CYCC. Parents called me to complain about the quality of the goods but...if cost is your motivation...we have the same supplier as FEN for other products...and...we have the goods shipped to Montreal...not Kap so our cost is less...hence we can give them to the CFC for less.

I understand that FEN is the official retailer for the CFC when it comes to chess equipment:

So what I am asking is:

- that when the CFC purchases for their own events, does this mean that they use FEN as their supplier, regardless of quality and price?

- can we compare apples to apples?

I want you to know that I believe in what you are doing. I think you have taken the Federation forward. I think your decisions have been good and that the Federation is better today than when you took over.

I know you are a fair and honest individual and I am asking these questions as a point of information and not in the interest of arguement.

Sincerely,

Larry

[Ellen Nadeau]

Hi Andrei, glad to hear from you. I'll respond to a couple points.

1. The CFC has been in a difficult financial position for the last few years. My starting point for any Youth Program is that it must be self-sustaining. Thus if some tournaments send $200 and others a bit more, there should be no problem to continue indefintely because costs are covered. Down the road we may be able to get sponsors on board again but it will probably be a while.

2. I tried to put together a package which would have everything in it necessary to run a tournament so that first time organizers wouldn't have problems.

3. Your point about required YCC participation to compete in the CYCC has merit. As Youth coordinator I balked at implementing that this year. The bid was already awarded, no notice was given across the regions... I opted for the Carrot approach rather than the stick. This Year let's encourage more organizers to run the YCC tournaments and the next year's governance may decide to implement a qualifier tournament as necessary to go to Nationals
Promotion of chess and chess tournaments is our job.

4. Under your calculations, there should not be $450 sent to CFC. There was a $200 minimum and $400 Maximum. This is to encourage places that have large tournaments while not risking the loss of lots of money.

5. For this kind of tournament I believe quality medals are important. These are not $1 apiece. As well ,the CFC has had a tendancy in the past to not sell itself very well so the medals used for this Program are the new CFC Medals. They're Canadian Made, and the Canadian Flag is visible. I will try to attach the image used but I don't yet have a photo.


As far as family is concerned, we are all very proud of the way your daughter is performing. I hope to see both of you at the CYCC inVictoria this year.

Ellen Nadeau

PS the site didn't let me upload the medal image, it exceeded the limit allowed.

[Andrei Botez]

David,

I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.

In the post I explained what the organizers are getting ("encourage") for those $6/player I did not say that $6 is the rating fee, what I did say is:

In this $6 is included the rating fee

.

You also make a number of statements about parents and their willingness to spend money supporting their children't activities. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am curious as to how you reached these conclusions. What programs are your children enrolled in and what child related events have you organized to reach these conclusions? I have three boys and my experience is very different.

A straight answer will be: "I am teaching chess for kids 4 days a week, I am part of the organizing parents group in Vancouver (we organize 90% of all CFC and CMA events),and more then that. I am also a chess dad (my children are active chess players. I am in contact with the great majority of the chess parents in BC, my opinion is based on their remarks and also on the remarks of many of the top Canadian chess players parents.

Now please be kind and tell us about your experience as a chess dad.

Are you planning on running a YCC tournament? If not, let's start a different thread to debate fee structures and leave this thread to the purpose it was created for, to discuss YCC events with interested organizers.

Like I already mentioned I am part of the parents comity in Vancouver area. This comity together with the BC Junior Coordinator is organizing the BC-YCC event for many years (except when it was in Victoria), so thread is exactly were I am interested to post.

Thanks
Andrei

[Andrei Botez]

Hi Ellen,

Thanks for reply, we will see each other in Victoria (are you driving all the way?).

You are right, it was a maximum of $400 so my calculation was wrong. If I calculate the cost for $400, the medal price will be around $10. As a organizer will be cheaper to buy trophies instead of those medals, and as you know the kids like them more. Is the package created to help CFC financialy or to encourage TD's and organizers?

Also, when you mention YCC, are you referring to provincial finals (maximum 10) or in general about any CYCC qualifier (ex North Ontario)?

Andrei

[Ellen Nadeau]

Hi Andrei,

It will be a funny trip this summer. Emmanuel is playing in the CYCC and 3 other children will go to the Canadian Open in Edmonton - this leaves one...

Don't just count the medals in your calculations; your cost is way off. I repeat, the CFC is not making nor losing money with this program. We want to promote chess, in my case, youth chess, at the same time, we do not have a surplus of money. We have to operate as close to revenue-neutral as we can. Did you know that to hold a YCC in previous years, organizers were supposed to send $7 per player to the CFC($10 if not a CFC member)?
When developing the program I wanted to REWARD those who ran YCC's previously by reducing their costs, and encourage new organizers.

You perceive well that YCC are not limited to one per province. We have had that attitude in the past and finally, most of the participants were within one hour's drive from a YCC. This means that over the last few years, about 3 provinces have participated in the YCC's each year. This is not good for national youth chess development. We have to get the rest of Canada on board so this means tournaments in major centers around the country. We need to have tournaments where the kids are, not limited to 1 place in a huge province. In Northern Ontario, thanks to the dedication of John Rutherford, we managed to get a lot of kids involved; initially not very competitive but getting stronger. These kids would not be in organized chess otherwise.

Canada has to find ways to generate players. We benefit from other countries training (teachers, good players) but we have to organize chess culture and that takes a lot of promoting.

One more point: are we trying to get Larry? I was told a few times by provincial organizers that they felt fidelity to CMA. Great. Do we cover everywhere; do we have enough organized chess? I speak for myself, not the Executive, but if any collaboration can be made with CMA and it helps develop chess, helps kids, great! The more complicated question is how - I suspect that Larry might be able to find solutions with us on this.

Ellen

[Christopher Mallon]

Here's the picture of a medal Ellen was trying to show.