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Thread: 5- Proposed 2012-2013 budget

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Campbell View Post
    I realize most OCA presidents, secretaries and VP's (1 from each league) will be OCA governors. As far as I know, I am just Treasurer of OCA, not a governor. But, I suppose no volunteer at OCA level needs to be a governor. In that case, are OCA executive members who are not governors able to vote for or against this budget? I don't really care, as long as sensible decisions are made.
    As far as I can tell from the constitution:

    http://www.chessontario.com/newconstitution.htm

    - only the governors vote. While the president automatically becomes a governor and the VPs must already be, the other officers neither need be governors to stand for election nor become governors upon being elected to office. So no, it seems you aren't able to vote. At least from what I can tell.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Campbell View Post
    Hi Rob and Chris

    Chris, thanks for pointing out that the OCA must give out 50% of CFC rebates to the leagues, and my estimate of $2349 shown on the 2012 statements represented exactly half of what the CFC gave OCA in the 2012 year, from May 2011 to April 2012. Rob, on your translation of my income statement, you indicated $2340 to give to the leagues, with no breakdown of percentage for each league. Then, in your sensible budget, you indicated $2370to the leagues, with a breakdown for each league. So there may have been a typo, and I am assuming $2370 for discussion purposes. I am sure you got these figures and based them on postal code memberships from the 4 geographical areas. It is interesting to be tracking which leagues are attracting more CFC members, and which are losing members. Maybe we can use this information in some way to promote chess better, but that is maybe better discussed at an annual meeting.

    I realize most OCA presidents, secretaries and VP's (1 from each league) will be OCA governors. As far as I know, I am just Treasurer of OCA, not a governor. But, I suppose no volunteer at OCA level needs to be a governor. In that case, are OCA executive members who are not governors able to vote for or against this budget? I don't really care, as long as sensible decisions are made.
    Hi Brett,

    The income statements on two pages are not for the same years. The $2370 was for the past year (2011-2012) while the $2340 (2012-2013) was a crude approximation of what will be given to the leagues in this current year. Clearly this is subject to change and I see no point in making a further estimation of the individual league breakdowns. People said they wanted a rough estimate for the upcoming year of incomes and expenses so that is what the $2340 is.

    Secondly, I am sad to say that you are not able to vote despite being the most educated and knowledgeable person by far on the subject (in my opinion). However, I know your voice carries weight and have no doubt that the governorship will listen to what you say concerning the budget.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Wilker View Post
    You may be right, Brett, that the fact there is so little to report makes people uncomfortable, makes them think there must be more to know. !?
    This may be the reason... That would explain why even with 100% disclosure in 2009 (we basically publicly showed everything short of actual cheque #s) people were still unhappy with the level of financial disclosure...
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Wilker View Post
    You may be right, Brett, that the fact there is so little to report makes people uncomfortable, makes them think there must be more to know. !?

    Still, whether it's done on a cash-flow basis or an accrual basis, couldn't we set up a multi-year chart? We're discussing funding events on a rotating basis, we're projecting CFC revenues - wouldn't all that be easier if we could see the past few years, together with projected receivables and planned spending for this year (and the next, even?) all on one chart?

    E.g. If the amount we plan to "donate" (so it's been put) to OHSCC is an annual amount, while the Closed is biannual, or if it's an increase compared to previous years, etc., shouldn't that be made clear? Otherwise it takes extraordinary efforts (or intimate familiarity) to assess the proposed budget.
    Hi Marcus

    Unfortunately, I have more work in my professional life I must attend to than figure out ways to do multi-year charts regarding the OCA finances.

    When you compare the 2011 and 2012 income statements and balance sheets, you will notice the similarity of each regarding revenue and expenditures, and then understand why Rob is proposing the 2012-13 budget he has spent time thinking about. The 2013 statements will most likely not differ drastically from the previous 4 which I have done.

    Until the OCA has more money to spend, there will be limitations on what the organization can do. A better picture may emerge when the tax returns are finally completed, as often tax software does allow for multi-year summaries to be generated. In any event, it will show the evolution of the non profit entity from inception about a decade ago to today.

  5. #35
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    Questions regarding $500 for taxes:
    Will a contract be signed with R.Gillanders?
    What are conditions that R.G. will need to fulfill to get $500?

    (I don't want to see another $500 for taxes the next year to do the same work.)
    .*-1

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
    Questions regarding $500 for taxes:
    Will a contract be signed with R.Gillanders?
    What are conditions that R.G. will need to fulfill to get $500?

    (I don't want to see another $500 for taxes the next year to do the same work.)
    I intended nothing that formal, simply that once the the returns were filled to cut Bob a cheque for $500 along with an immense amount of gratitude. This is not about paying him to do the work imo, this is trying to show a small amount of gratitude for pulling our fat out of the fire. The tax situation has gone unanswered far too long and we need to rectify it. Having it done professionally may in fact bankrupt us as we're looking at almost a decade of returns now.

    Egis, believe me we're on the same page; but more than money with these returns its something we just need to do. Bob agreeing to help us is an act of charity on his part so I really don't want to rock the boat or hassle him about this. That being said, I never tip before my meal shows up.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Clark View Post
    I intended nothing that formal, simply that once the the returns were filled to cut Bob a cheque for $500 along with an immense amount of gratitude. This is not about paying him to do the work imo, this is trying to show a small amount of gratitude for pulling our fat out of the fire. The tax situation has gone unanswered far too long and we need to rectify it. Having it done professionally may in fact bankrupt us as we're looking at almost a decade of returns now.

    Egis, believe me we're on the same page; but more than money with these returns its something we just need to do. Bob agreeing to help us is an act of charity on his part so I really don't want to rock the boat or hassle him about this. That being said, I never tip before my meal shows up.
    Thank you Rob. As they say, it is not about the money. I had been hoping for years now that somebody else would clean up this mess, but I finally concluded that that wasn't going to happen. My curiosity about the infamous "box of documents" and OCA finances finally got the better of me.

    But now I face the same challenge as others have, incomplete financial records. So I will be looking to others with knowledge of those earlier years (2003-2006) for assistance.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Thank you Rob. As they say, it is not about the money. I had been hoping for years now that somebody else would clean up this mess, but I finally concluded that that wasn't going to happen. My curiosity about the infamous "box of documents" and OCA finances finally got the better of me.

    But now I face the same challenge as others have, incomplete financial records. So I will be looking to others with knowledge of those earlier years (2003-2006) for assistance.
    Hi Rob, Bob, Chris and Marcus

    Once the 2012-13 budget is voted on (I support it even though I am not a governor), the 2012 income statement and balance sheet can be slightly amended with the correct figure (instead of an estimate) for the league payments. I think one minor change to the proposed budget would be to plug in the figure of $2349 (instead of $2340) as it represents exactly 50% of revenue from the CFC and we're supposed to give at least that amount back(maybe slightly more if the 4 figures are rounded up to the nearest $10).

    Rob, I am sure you have a very good idea of the CFC members in each league after your analysis of postal codes (thanks for doing that) of CFC members who joined or renewed between 1 May 2011 and 30 April 2012.

    I think since this is a public discussion about the budget, we will, as OCA executives, try to stay close to it in our actions during the year. It must be understood that minor variations may occur (such as a slight change of the amount given to leagues from $2349 for rounding purposes).

    Bob, maybe we can talk about strategy for arriving at some figures to do the taxes for the first 3 years for the years ending 30 April 2004, 2005 and 2006 as OCA was incorporated around November 2003. Since we have the bank accounts, starting at the beginning of 2004, we should be able to come up with rough estimates of CFC amounts, and Trillium deposits, as well as expenses (even if some are miscellaneous). There must be some proposed budgets for each year somewhere, and Hal Bond may be a useful source of info, as he was acting as Treasurer for some of the time.

  9. #39

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    Marcus,

    If you wanted to start trying to put together such a spreadsheet I would definitely give as much guidance as I could. I'm also sure that approaching other past presidents would also shed more light. After talking to Brett I know he's incredibly busy right now and I know he's put a lot of time into the current documents (which he deserves a big thank you for, rather than more work). However, if you are interesting in creating a spreadsheet such as the one you mentioned please feel free to contact me.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Campbell View Post
    Hi Marcus

    Unfortunately, I have more work in my professional life I must attend to than figure out ways to do multi-year charts regarding the OCA finances.

    When you compare the 2011 and 2012 income statements and balance sheets, you will notice the similarity of each regarding revenue and expenditures, and then understand why Rob is proposing the 2012-13 budget he has spent time thinking about. The 2013 statements will most likely not differ drastically from the previous 4 which I have done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Clark View Post
    Marcus,

    If you wanted to start trying to put together such a spreadsheet I would definitely give as much guidance as I could. I'm also sure that approaching other past presidents would also shed more light. After talking to Brett I know he's incredibly busy right now and I know he's put a lot of time into the current documents (which he deserves a big thank you for, rather than more work). However, if you are interesting in creating a spreadsheet such as the one you mentioned please feel free to contact me.
    I said already that I take Brett's point from his report that he's not the one to do this. I never meant to imply I was asking him to do it. In fact, I thought Egis already had it well underway, but if it falls to me ...

    I don't even think it should be very difficult. It seems we have one source of revenue (from CFC memberships), half of which we give back to the leagues. Then we have about six tournaments we give money to, plus a few odds and ends. Five years at ten? entries per year shouldn't be too hard to put together. I think if I dig around in this thread I should find the past two years and the proposed budget for the one upcoming. Where do I look for the 2009 and 2010 reports?

    @Rob, if If you want to send something directly to my email, that'll make it even easier for me.

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