11b) Motion 2012-A - Governor Allocations

[Christopher Mallon]

Even last your post I found unbelievably rude.

If you could cite specific examples in his post that you found rude, that might help us understand where you're coming from here. I read it three times and couldn't find anything even remotely rude in it.

Who you are to assess my understanding of the functioning of the OCA and the CFC???

He's the OCA President and Chair of the AGM and thus the official interpreter of the rules. Besides, if you can't handle people critiquing your involvement as a Governor, and your past Executive involvement, why do you want to be OCA President?

[Rob Clark]

If you could cite specific examples in his post that you found rude, that might help us understand where you're coming from here. I read it three times and couldn't find anything even remotely rude in it.



He's the OCA President and Chair of the AGM and thus the official interpreter of the rules. Besides, if you can't handle people critiquing your involvement as a Governor, and your past Executive involvement, why do you want to be OCA President?

I ended up talking to Michael last night and thought about this issue a bit. Clearly I have not always tried to be as polite as I usually try to be. If Mr. Barron is half as annoyed as I have been about the whole thing (which I did err in the beginning and can understand) then hopefully an apology does go a ways towards setting things right. I don't think this is something that's worth creating a rift in the OCA over so Mr. Barron, I am sorry.

[Michael Barron]

I ended up talking to Michael last night and thought about this issue a bit. Clearly I have not always tried to be as polite as I usually try to be. If Mr. Barron is half as annoyed as I have been about the whole thing (which I did err in the beginning and can understand) then hopefully an apology does go a ways towards setting things right. I don't think this is something that's worth creating a rift in the OCA over so Mr. Barron, I am sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Clark!

Apology accepted.
Let's consider this issue closed.

Now we could discuss other issues in constructive manner...

[Michael Barron]

Alright, I'm going to stop this on my end because this is going nowhere good. I'll address your question regarding the numbers. It includes postal codes which I accepted from the CFC under the understanding that they were to be made confidential. I don't disagree with you that the information is easy to find and that I can delete the postal code information but yet again I accepted the information with said understanding. If you would like the data please take it up with the CFC as I am obligated to do as I have agreed to.

Mr. Clark,

We're talking now about your mistakes and how we could resolve them in constructive manner.

You did significant work and created membership breakdown for Ontario Leagues.
Of course, I could do the same work and come up with different numbers.

But how could we resolve this discrepancy in constructive manner?
You could claim that your numbers are correct, I could claim that my numbers are correct.
What would be the next step?

I think, the only way to resolve this issue in constructive manner is for you to explain the procedure how did you count members and present results of your work.
Then all Leagues could verify your work and if there are different opinions, they could be openly discussed and voted by the OCA Board.

Does it make sense?

[Rob Clark]

Mr. Clark,

We're talking now about your mistakes and how we could resolve them in constructive manner.

You did significant work and created membership breakdown for Ontario Leagues.
Of course, I could do the same work and come up with different numbers.

But how could we resolve this discrepancy in constructive manner?
You could claim that your numbers are correct, I could claim that my numbers are correct.
What would be the next step?

I think, the only way to resolve this issue in constructive manner is for you to explain the procedure how did you count members and present results of your work.
Then all Leagues could verify your work and if there are different opinions, they could be openly discussed and voted by the OCA Board.

Does it make sense?

My mistakes? Look I'm trying to end this because I don't think its in the spirit of bettering chess in Ontario, lets try to move forward. As I stated before, as Mike can verify, I was given the membership list in confidence since it contains confidential information.

I'm curious how you think there is a margin of error here. How can you crunch the numbers and come up with different numbers when you're not even sure how I calculated them?

However, I will explain how I calculated it. Since I was given some members with names and no cities, I looked these players up on the chess.ca website. If they had a city listed on the CFC website I used that. If they had a postal code in the list, it was a bit easier. Most of the starting letters of the postal codes are unique except for those in the L postal code (I believe it was L) which is shared between the GTCL and SWOCL. For these I individually searched the postal codes on Canada post and figured out which city they were in and therefore which league they are in. I double checked these in order to ensure that they were in the right league. From this point on it was a simply tally and then the formula stated in the OCA constitution. There was little margin for error to begin with and I double checked this to ensure that it was done correctly. It is because of the postal codes which are the basis of the membership list that this is confidential. This is not me simply deciding that this is now confidential, this is how it was presented to me.

[Michael Barron]

My mistakes? Look I'm trying to end this because I don't think its in the spirit of bettering chess in Ontario, lets try to move forward. As I stated before, as Mike can verify, I was given the membership list in confidence since it contains confidential information.

I'm curious how you think there is a margin of error here. How can you crunch the numbers and come up with different numbers when you're not even sure how I calculated them?

However, I will explain how I calculated it. Since I was given some members with names and no cities, I looked these players up on the chess.ca website. If they had a city listed on the CFC website I used that. If they had a postal code in the list, it was a bit easier. Most of the starting letters of the postal codes are unique except for those in the L postal code (I believe it was L) which is shared between the GTCL and SWOCL. For these I individually searched the postal codes on Canada post and figured out which city they were in and therefore which league they are in. I double checked these in order to ensure that they were in the right league. From this point on it was a simply tally and then the formula stated in the OCA constitution. There was little margin for error to begin with and I double checked this to ensure that it was done correctly. It is because of the postal codes which are the basis of the membership list that this is confidential. This is not me simply deciding that this is now confidential, this is how it was presented to me.

Mr. Clark,

Sorry, if you find word "mistake" rude - no offence intended...

I think, we all agree that you made some mistakes while calculating Governors allocation.
Is it correct?

It is not clear yet what exactly mistakes did you make.
Could you please clarify it?

So, you used city of a member to determine his League, right?
Could you please clarify:
What cities belong to every League?

Thank you for resolving this issue in constructive manner!

[Christopher Mallon]

Michael, since you were involved in the drawing of the OCA "map" so to speak, you know very well what cities belong to which leagues.

Are you saying that somehow Rob got confused and gave the Scarborough players to EOCA? Or Barrie to SWOCL? Or perhaps he gave your personal membership allocation to NOCL?

No? What then?

You didn't get your way this year, why don't you just leave it alone and focus your efforts on the future? Is this the kind of "leadership" we can expect if you are elected as OCA President?

[Rob Clark]

Mr. Clark,

Sorry, if you find word "mistake" rude - no offence intended...

I think, we all agree that you made some mistakes while calculating Governors allocation.
Is it correct?

It is not clear yet what exactly mistakes did you make.
Could you please clarify it?

So, you used city of a member to determine his League, right?
Could you please clarify:
What cities belong to every League?

Thank you for resolving this issue in constructive manner!

Mr. Barron, I genuinely want to try to resolve this and move forward. There are plenty of questions I can ask to yourself, or things I can point out but yet again, let's move forward.

As for my "mistakes", as I have replied countless times now , I used the wrong formula. I have apologized for this to yourself, to the governor affected and done so publicly as well now. I acted too quickly in an attempt to get the numbers to the leagues. Would you have rather I sat on it and did nothing? I have no idea what you are looking for here.

As for your request for me to mention which cities belong to each league, the answer is no. I am not going to write out every town, township, municipality, reserve city etc in Ontario.

[Christopher Mallon]

As for your request for me to mention which cities belong to each league, the answer is no. I am not going to write out every town, township, municipality, reserve city etc in Ontario.

Of course you shouldn't, since he already has the list.

However, having perused it... I think there are a few places that ended up in the wrong league.

Perhaps, Mr. Barron, you can inform us as to the state of chess activity in Midland and Penetanguishene, since they are apparently in the GTCL despite being tiny towns 150 km or so North of Toronto.

Here's the list for anyone interested. This is only the L postal codes; Ms are GTCL, N's are SWOCL, P's are NOCL and K's are EOCA.

Millbrook    L0A     GTCL                    
Blackstock    L0B     GTCL                    
Sunderland    L0C     GTCL                    
Bradford    L0G     GTCL                    
Tottenham    L0G     GTCL                    
Gormley    L0H     GTCL                    
Moonstone    L0K    GTCL                    
Elmvale    L0L     GTCL                    
Midhurst    L0L     GTCL                    
Lisle    L0M     GTCL                    
Shelburne    L0N     GTCL                    
Campbellville    L0P     GTCL                    
Lynden    L0R     GTCL                    
Smithville    L0R     GTCL                    
Waterdown    L0R     GTCL                    
Crystal Beach    L0S     GTCL                    
Fonthill    L0S     GTCL                    
Newcastle    L1B     GTCL                    
Bowmanville    L1C     GTCL                    
Oshawa    L1G     GTCL                    
Oshawa    L1H     GTCL                    
Oshawa    L1J     GTCL                    
Oshawa    L1K     GTCL                    
Whitby    L1N     GTCL                    
Whitby    L1R     GTCL                    
Ajax    L1S     GTCL                    
Ajax    L1T     GTCL                    
Pickering    L1V     GTCL                    
Pickering    L1W     GTCL                    
Pickering    L1X     GTCL                    
Ajax    L1Z     GTCL                    
Fort Erie    L2A             SWOCL            
Niagara Falls    L2E             SWOCL            
Niagara Falls    L2G             SWOCL            
Niagara Falls    L2H             SWOCL            
Niagara Falls    L2J             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2M             SWOCL            
St Catharines    L2N             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2N             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2P             SWOCL            
St Catharines    L2R             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2R             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2S             SWOCL            
Thorold    L2V             SWOCL            
St. Catharines    L2W             SWOCL            
Welland    L3B             SWOCL            
Welland    L3C             SWOCL            
Port Colborne    L3K             SWOCL            
Grimsby    L3M             SWOCL            
Markham    L3P     GTCL                    
Markham    L3R     GTCL                    
Unionville    L3R     GTCL                    
Markham    L3S     GTCL                    
Thornhill    L3T     GTCL                    
Newmarket    L3X     GTCL                    
New Market    L3Y     GTCL                    
Newmarket    L3Y     GTCL                    
Brandford    L3Z     GTCL                    
Stouffville    L4A     GTCL                    
Richmond Hill    L4B     GTCL                    
Richmond Hill    L4C     GTCL                    
Richmond Hill    L4E     GTCL                    
Aurora    L4G     GTCL                    
Woodbridge    L4H    GTCL                    
Thornhill    L4J     GTCL                    
Concord    L4K     GTCL                    
Barrie    L4M     GTCL                    
Barrie    L4N     GTCL                    
Keswick    L4P    GTCL                    
Midland    L4R     GTCL                    
Richmond Hill    L4S     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L4W     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L4X     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L4Y     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L4Z     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5A     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5B     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5C     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5G     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5H     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5J     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5K     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5L     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5M     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5N     GTCL                    
Mississauga    L5V     GTCL                    
Maple    L6A     GTCL                    
Markham    L6C     GTCL                    
Oakville    L6H     GTCL                    
Oakville    L6J     GTCL                    
Oakville    L6K     GTCL                    
Oakville    L6L     GTCL                    
Oakville    L6M     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6R     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6T     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6V     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6W     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6X     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6Y     GTCL                    
Brampton    L6Z     GTCL                    
Brampton    L7A     GTCL                    
Bolton    L7E     GTCL                    
Georgetown    L7G     GTCL                    
Acton    L7J    GTCL                    
Burlington    L7L     SWOCL
Burlington    L7M     SWOCL
Burlington    L7N     SWOCL
Burlington    L7P     SWOCL
Burlington    L7R     SWOCL
Burlington    L7S     SWOCL
Burlington    L7T     SWOCL                    
Hamilton    L8E                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8E                         SWOCL
Stoney Creek    L8E                         SWOCL
Winona    L8E                         SWOCL
Stoney Creek    L8G                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8J                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8K                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8L                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8M                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8N                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8P                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8R                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8S                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8T                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8V                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L8W                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L9A                         SWOCL
Hamilton    L9C                         SWOCL
Ancaster    L9G                         SWOCL
Dundas    L9H                         SWOCL
Ancaster    L9K                         SWOCL
Port Perry    L9L     GTCL                    
Penetanguishene    L9M     GTCL                    
Collingwood    L9Y     GTCL

[Rob Clark]

Yes, the issue was raised last AGM of reducing the boundaries of the GTCL.