Is Canadian Chess Dying?

[Bob Armstrong]

The following was posted by me on the " dark " board ( OCC ) on Oct. 7, in response to a post by " Kevin " making a number of points he felt pointed to Canadian chess dying ( and critical of the CFC ):

Hi Kevin:

Me thinks you are too gloomy.

Bob Gillanders( and team ) has breathed new life into the CFC office, and improved CFC member service, just in time to start recovering some good will from the membership.

The GL # 1 ( 2008-9 ) had 4 substantive restructuring motions passed that have been hanging fire for some time, and when carried out will go a long way toward correcting the CFC financial situation ( though I still expect some loss for fiscal 2008-9, ending April 30, 2009 ). 78.7% of 61 governors voted on these motions - unheard of participation in recent history.

Membership since May 2007 have risen 152 members - it looks like the drop has bottomed out, and when the Grassroots' Campaign gets rid of " tournament memberships ", the numbers of annual memberships will go up even more.

I can't speak for the Vancouver or Montreal scene. Toronto has been moribund. But it seems to be turning around. The Sept. Toronto Labour Day Open had over 140 players. There is going to be a Toronto Thanksgiving Day Open. A small Toronto RR is starting today ( likely 8-players ). The Toronto Seniors' Championship ( 8-player RR and perhaps a Reserve ) starts Oct. 14. In the GTA area - the Ontario Open/Ocktoberfest is in Kitchner in 2 weeks, and the Chessca Open in Elora in 3 weeks. Currently the Toronto Women's Championship is on ( 6-player RR ). The Toronto Junior Championship is coming up. And next Spring, Brian Fiedler has organized a big Toronto Open, on the style of a number of decades ago.

Right now, the Scarborough CC has almost 70 players out for the Howard Ridout Memorial Swiss - the most we've had since early in the Millenium.

There does seem to be a problem with national championships - no 2008 Canadian Closed/Zonal, nor 2008 Canadian Women's Championship. But on the international front, we will be sending two teams to the Dresden Olympiad ( and there has been modestly successful fundraising, given the CFC's current lack of finances ). Igor Zugic did participate in the 2007 FIDE World Cup for Canada.

Getting rid of the CFC's retail business is one of the smartest things it has done recently - it was losing CFC money - new competition didn't help ( nor did the CFC incompetent service a while back ). And the smaller CFC membership base made the Chess Canada print magazine too expensive for a small non-profit corporation - it had to go from a fiscal perspective. And CFC is going to replace it with an on-line Chess Canada, with a new respected editor, IM Lawrence Day.

I agree that David will improve CFC finances ( though I doubt he will balance the books for fiscal 2008-9 ), and this is especially positive after 4 consecutive years of substantial losses , the last being $ 33,000 ).

So I think your predictions of the death of Canadian chess are somewhat premature. I think Canadian Chess is rather rising from the ashes, and had a near-death experience.

Bob

[Jason Lohner]

Chess is doing just fine in Canada. CFC rated chess is dying though. So what is your solution? Increase the barriers to new players! yeah thats going to work! If your proposal passes memberships will increase slightly and I am sure you will tout the numbers around saying 'See it worked!'. But guaranteed tournament participation will drop and the overall tournament participation and the CFC income will drop.

I would ask every governor here to go to any tournament and ask the people who use these tournament memberships if forced to would they buy a membership or just quit playing in CFC tournaments. In the last couple of tournaments I have played in (CFC and non-CFC rated) I have talked to people who actually use the tournament memberships. I have yet to talk to ONE person who said they would purchase a CFC membership. People will just play in non-cfc tournaments or just play in clubs and online.

If you want to reduce the amount of people playing rated chess in Canada then vote for these proposals.

[Aris Marghetis]

As an active Organizer/TD (10 CFC and 3 CMA events for the 2008-2009 season), I have asked around enough, and I agree with Jason. In my humble opinion, eliminating the tournament membership option will hurt rated chess in Canada. I am particularly uncomfortable with the contention that it will somehow make more money for the CFC. Even if it does for the first few months or so, I respectfully submit that we are not going to get the buzz going about playing rated chess by implementing measures that will likely reduce the overall number of players who play rated chess. I have never met a player who didn't appreciate the excitement of playing opponents that he hasn't already played dozens of times. As CFC Governor, I am voting to keep tournament memberships (I could be influenced to re-consider their price).

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Aris:

I'm pleased that you have declared your position on this issue of TPF elimination. It would be good if more governors would enter into public debate with the membership on this issue, before they make up their minds.

I'd only note to you that both President David Lavin and Secretary Lyle Craver have both now publicly come out in favour of eliminating the tournament membership. Governors Barry Thorvardson and Gary Gladstone suppport the elimination ( mover/seconder of the Grassroots' Motion 2009-7 ). As well, I would note that CFC Treasurer, Chris Mallon, was an endorser of the original Grassroots' Campaign platform, which had in it the elimination of tournament memberships and was the seconder for the Grassroots' Campaign " straw vote " motion # 3 for eliminating them ( not sure from some recent comments of his if he still supports elimination ). Governor Kerry Liles was also an original endorser of the platform, and he has not to my knowledge withdrawn his support for eliminating tournament memberships. All this to say, it is a hotly contested issue.

Bob

[Kerry Liles]

Governor Kerry Liles was also an original endorser of the platform, and he has not to my knowledge withdrawn his support for eliminating tournament memberships. All this to say, it is a hotly contested issue.Bob

I have not made up my mind quite yet, but Aris (and others) make a strong argument in favour of keeping (some sort of) tournament membership. I have always liked the original intent of the tournament membership - as I understood it - as an "try before you buy". However, with the current lack of either a magazine or a website with a lot of valuable content, I think I would tend to agree with Aris' post above.

The whole issue of membership benefits, fees, rating fees, FIDE fees, and side issues like tournament memberships cannot really be considered separately from each other. I would like to see a more comprehensive proposal to address all those items at once (with a lot of backup reasoning). In the meantime, I think I have to tend toward the status quo - as annoying as it is on so many levels.

I have not yet voted on the matters in GL#2 and I realize tempest fugit.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Kerry:

I hope you continue to keep an open mind on this as the debate unfolds.

As to your " try before you buy " position, this is exactly what the Grassroots' Campaign Motion 2009-8 does ! It gives first time CFC'ers a whopping 40% discount on their first annual CFC membership. It is an inducement to try the CFC at a reasonable cost ( they still get all the benefits of full membership ). Hopefully they'll like what they see and renew.

This discount is meant to compensate for " first time CFC'ers " for the elimination of the tournament membership. It gives them a cheap first try.

Bob

[Aris Marghetis]

Hi Kerry:

I hope you continue to keep an open mind on this as the debate unfolds.

As to your " try before you buy " position, this is exactly what the Grassroots' Campaign Motion 2009-8 does ! It gives first time CFC'ers a whopping 40% discount on their first annual CFC membership. It is an inducement to try the CFC at a reasonable cost ( they still get all the benefits of full membership ). Hopefully they'll like what they see and renew.

This discount is meant to compensate for " first time CFC'ers " for the elimination of the tournament membership. It gives them a cheap first try.

Bob

If I may add, I don't believe that all potential new CFC members try it out the same way. Some people would try a few events over a couple of years before joining as annual members. I believe that the flexibility of the tournament membership will pay more dividends than a single strict trial period. Also, there's the logistics. For example, how does an onsite TD figure out if someone has taken the 40% discount before? With annual and tournament memberships, it's simple: either the player points to his current annual membership, or he pays either the annual fee or the temporary fee. I'm sorry, but to me, the choice is clear, keep the tournament membership. However, I could re-consider raising the tournament membership price.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Aris:

Here is the motion for the first-time CFC'er discount:

Motion 2009-08 ( referred to as Motion # 2 )– Moved: Barry Thorvardson; Seconded: Gary Gladstone –
CFC Annual Membership Discount – The Incoming Governors’ 2008 AGM Motion on CFC fees is amended by adding after the third sentence: “ Effective January 1, 2009, to encourage individuals to become CFC members, first time CFC members shall be given a 40% fee reduction for their first year. “

In terms of the practical logistics of applying this motion, it is our intention that all players who have already used a " tournament playing fee " will be deemed to be have been CFC members for the purpose of the discount. After all, they have had access to the system, have tried out competitive CFC-rated tournament chess, and have obtained a CFC membership No. and a national rating. They do not need the first time discount encouragement - they have had the experience and can evaluate it.

So for the purpose of the tournament director, if a player is in the rating system, then they do not qualify for the discount. Only true " first timers " who have never played a CFC-rated tournament will be eligible for the discount. Simple to administer, just like the TPF.

Bob

[Jason Lohner]

***First Scenario***

former TM : " Hi my name is John smith... (shows ID)."
TD : "Hmmm there is a John smith already in hicktown with a CFC rating"
Former TM : "Thats not me I would like my 40% discount please"
TD : "Hmm now what do I do"

Repeat process every year...

***Second Scenario***

Annual hicksville club tournament

First time player : " I would like to register, this is my first tournament"
TD: "you have to join the CFC first, there is a 40% discount for first time buyers"

Second Annual hicksville club tournament

former first time player (second time player) : " I would like to register for the
tournament"
TD : "your CFC membership has now expired and you need to renew, that will be an extra $48 dollars (in BC)"
player : "48 dollars !!@#!@@% for one tournament a year???? !@#!@# thanks but no thanks"

and watch the tournament participation plummet...

[Valer Eugen Demian]

... is similar with shopping at the Salvation Army and asking why there's no high class service (no disrespect intended to the Salvation Army).

Let's see: some chess people do not even want to hear about chess being recognized as a sport here (even if it is in about 75% of countries in the World), do not want to pay a yearly membership to a national organization, ask time and time again what is provided to them when in return they do not consider they have to do anything, etc, etc.
Conclusion: let's kick CFC over and over again (easy target, right?) until they will disappear in the oblivion. I am sure then everyone will satisfy their chess craving playing in those "great" internet chess sites, while watching the World outside play chess as it should be played!

How about that?