6A6A Bids for all Canadian Closed 2019 - 2022 in Kingston by Aris Marghetis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Egidijus Zeromskis

Aris, I had these concerns and questions:

I'm trying to understand the hotel deal: "DISCOUNT all-taxes-in double occupancy rate of $65".

To be a good deal, this should be a room price, right? What type of rooms will be offered by hotel for this rate? [ hotel link https://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...ints-kingston/ ] How many of them will be available to chess players? Who will manage sorting into double-rooms? It's an individual championship, not a team of two :)

imho, it might be great for a weekend open. The Closed (Zonal) with 4 days of double rounds will be tough for players. Hopefully they will by-pass playoffs this time.

Out of curiosity - was a schedule of Wed (r1) Thur (r2-3), Fri (r4-5), Sat (r6), Sun (r7-8), Mon (r9) considered? With Monday two rounds and potential playoffs someone might need to stay one day anyway.

---

Thanks Egis, here are my initial responses. I am open to re-feedback:

1) room rate: The hotel deal, with regular tax and hotel tax, with free parking and free breakfast, works out to $130 per night for two beds. This is insanely low for a downtown hotel in a city like this. Just parking and breakfast are normally dozens of extra dollars. We have 50 double rooms blocked so far, and we have been told that if registrations are better than that, then we can have more (that will be a GOOD problem, as they WANT to fill up). To get these rates, players will book their hotel rooms as part of their tournament registration. Any two players can tell us they want to room together. Some people will choose a room alone (or choose a room with a non-playing co-guest). This method of room commitment (registering for the room along with the tournament registration) is required in order to meet criteria for a separate agreement that we have with Kingston Tourism. Players who stay at that hotel will pay less to play than players who do not stay at that hotel.

2) weekend open vs. Closed (Zonal): We're quite excited that this will be BOTH! If you read the details, the top section (strictly rating-restricted) will serve as the Closed (Zonal), and the other sections will hopefully be remembered as the best super weekend open of the year! Like when else can an 1800 play 9 rounds?!

3) your schedule curiosity: There are many people who get Good Friday off of work. Some of them also get Easter Monday off. So with our proposed schedule, some people will miss ZERO days of work to attend. And those that need to take Easter Monday off, well most companies are very amenable to that day as a day off. At first glance, your proposal above would cost an extra day off work (Thursday) and an extra night of hotel. To be frank, I think those issues would be deal-breakers.

Thanks again, best regards, Aris.

Just a few points, going from major to minor.

With all due respect..this seems impossible.
http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...008&key=181219 last Zonal as an example. Out of 29 players, I count 9 that are not Montreal based. These trips, even for 5 days, are quite expensive.
Here is the biggest recent Kingston tournament I found. http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...094&key=181219
I don't see how Kingston can hope to attract 100 paying players (with 30 Zonal players - zero locals in Kingston). I am not sure why an 1800 would be excited to play 9 rounds, either.

If I remember correctly, prizes in Montreal were similar, but were not based on 100 paying players (so what benefits does the 2018 Canadian Sports Tourism Alliance provide.. hotel deals?)

Also, I think its great to have the Canadian Championship more often (once a year), but with the low projected prize fund + non chess location, I can't see how it will be attractive for top players to participate. That would devalue the title.

- US$1000 for Appeals Committee Chair, $2600: Arbiter fees (wow, on both accounts.)
-GM = free entry & double occupancy room (by March 31st) (it seems the 'handbook guideline' is being followed this time - why?)

- Anti-cheating - I was unable to find it on the internet right now, but I am pretty sure FIDE asks for certain procedures to be followed at the official FIDE events (I assume a Zonal is such) for anti-cheating purposes. Metal detectors, etc.

- Computer tiebreak instead of playoffs. Personally, not a fan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nikolay Noritsyn

Just a few points, going from major to minor.

With all due respect..this seems impossible.
http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...008&key=181219 last Zonal as an example. Out of 29 players, I count 9 that are not Montreal based. These trips, even for 5 days, are quite expensive.
Here is the biggest recent Kingston tournament I found. http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...094&key=181219
I don't see how Kingston can hope to attract 100 paying players (with 30 Zonal players - zero locals in Kingston). I am not sure why an 1800 would be excited to play 9 rounds, either.

If I remember correctly, prizes in Montreal were similar, but were not based on 100 paying players (so what benefits does the 2018 Canadian Sports Tourism Alliance provide.. hotel deals?)

Also, I think its great to have the Canadian Championship more often (once a year), but with the low projected prize fund + non chess location, I can't see how it will be attractive for top players to participate. That would devalue the title.

- US$1000 for Appeals Committee Chair, $2600: Arbiter fees (wow, on both accounts.)
-GM = free entry & double occupancy room (by March 31st) (it seems the 'handbook guideline' is being followed this time - why?)

- Anti-cheating - I was unable to find it on the internet right now, but I am pretty sure FIDE asks for certain procedures to be followed at the official FIDE events (I assume a Zonal is such) for anti-cheating purposes. Metal detectors, etc.

- Computer tiebreak instead of playoffs. Personally, not a fan.

---

Thanks Nikolay, here's my initial responses:

1) viability: We're sure gonna find out! I don't see how this can be compared to Montreal, when we're starting with decent MINIMUM prizes PER SECTION. These numbers are very conservatively based on 100 players who sign up for the earliest registration deadline. We hope to announce increased prize funds as registrations get going. In addition, most players from the non-Zonal section will hopefully be attracted by an appealing "chess-cation". Elite players like yourself heed financial aspects more. But here's the thing, as the "regular" sections swell, that will give us the resources to further improve the Zonal conditions, which in turn attracts, etc.

2) costs: The Appeals Committee Chair amount is mandated by FIDE. And then seriously, you're wowing $2600 in fees for Arbiters to cover 900 player-rounds?!

3) GM conditions: I don't get your point here. Are you complaining that we're offering GMs free entry & double occupancy room? We just think it's the right thing!

4) anti-cheating: This will of course be planned appropriately. We didn't immediately see the need for detailed inclusion within the bid. It just has to work onsite.

We sure hope to see you there, you're one of the top guys period!

Thank you, and best regards, Aris.

Generally, I like the bid. Just a couple of points:

1. With the huge deterioration of Canadian Open in last 10 years, Canadian Closed (combined with sections) has a chance to be the major Canadian tournament. I like it.

2. I like the idea of having the Closed once a year. We should think about Olympiad spot for the winner. For the next campaign - should it be 2019 or 2020 champion? Players have to know it before the start of 2019 championship.

3. 9 rounds in 5 days is a very busy schedule, but I understand Aris's approach.

4. Free entry for IMs and free accommodation for GMs - great! Let's follow our rules.

5. Unfortunately, World Senior Team Championship is scheduled for the same time (Apr 15- Apr 25, 2019 in Greece). in 2018, Canadian Team was Cummings-Plotkin-Findlay-Barron.

6. What will be the hotel price for single occupancy? 130 CAD?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aris Marghetis

Thanks Nikolay, here's my initial responses:

1) viability: We're sure gonna find out! I don't see how this can be compared to Montreal, when we're starting with decent MINIMUM prizes PER SECTION. These numbers are very conservatively based on 100 players who sign up for the earliest registration deadline. We hope to announce increased prize funds as registrations get going. In addition, most players from the non-Zonal section will hopefully be attracted by an appealing "chess-cation". Elite players like yourself heed financial aspects more. But here's the thing, as the "regular" sections swell, that will give us the resources to further improve the Zonal conditions, which in turn attracts, etc.

2) costs: The Appeals Committee Chair amount is mandated by FIDE. And then seriously, you're wowing $2600 in fees for Arbiters to cover 900 player-rounds?!

3) GM conditions: I don't get your point here. Are you complaining that we're offering GMs free entry & double occupancy room? We just think it's the right thing!

4) anti-cheating: This will of course be planned appropriately. We didn't immediately see the need for detailed inclusion within the bid. It just has to work onsite.

We sure hope to see you there, you're one of the top guys period!

Thank you, and best regards, Aris.

---

1. As a player, as long as prizes and conditions are guaranteed (are they?), I would be interested to play simply because of the Canadian Champion title. As someone reviewing the bid, I am skeptic about 100 registrations being conservative. Good luck to you, I do hope you can pull it off.

2. Of course. I may be comparing it to how much CFC pays coaches at world youth, etc. over 9+ rounds, or comparing it to the projected prize fund.

3. I don't have a personal unbiased opinion about the matter. I like when rules are being followed though, just wondering why its selective. Simply going through the expenses.

Here are the anti-cheating rules from the latest FIDE AGM http://www.fide.com/images/stories/N...s/Annex_24.pdf but the rules fail to indicate the date they will enter into effect.

Easter period is not the usual holiday, it is the most sacred religious day for both protestant and catholic. As such. you should expect that any player with a strong religious belief will refuse to play on those dates. Everyday, from Thursday to Sunday, there are daily religious services. This is why I prefer the December 26 to 30 time slot. The majority is truly in vacation during this period and there is no religious obligation of any kind.

Two rounds and tiebreaks on the same day will be a lot of work, both players and arbiters could be exhausted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Victor Plotkin

Generally, I like the bid. Just a couple of points:

1. With the huge deterioration of Canadian Open in last 10 years, Canadian Closed (combined with sections) has a chance to be the major Canadian tournament. I like it.

2. I like the idea of having the Closed once a year. We should think about Olympiad spot for the winner. For the next campaign - should it be 2019 or 2020 champion? Players have to know it before the start of 2019 championship.

3. 9 rounds in 5 days is a very busy schedule, but I understand Aris's approach.

4. Free entry for IMs and free accommodation for GMs - great! Let's follow our rules.

5. Unfortunately, World Senior Team Championship is scheduled for the same time (Apr 15- Apr 25, 2019 in Greece). in 2018, Canadian Team was Cummings-Plotkin-Findlay-Barron.

6. What will be the hotel price for single occupancy? 130 CAD?

---

Thank you Victor for your support. It also raises my confidence, as you're quite astute. Is there some risk to this project? I guess there is, but after LITERALLY years of contemplating how to build "the next North Bay", I think this has a good chance of succeeding. It's unfortunate about the World Senior Team Championship being at the same time, but these dates are deal-breakers. There's no other super-long-weekend in the year, and some hotels are starved for business on an otherwise "religious celebration" weekend. There's no other weekend where we can score so many deals and advantages. As for the single occupancy rate, $130 is the TOTAL rate. It includes 1 or 2 beds (whatever you want), free indoor parking, free daily breakfast buffet, absolutely no other hotel cost (except later meals, drinks, etc.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nikolay Noritsyn

1. As a player, as long as prizes and conditions are guaranteed (are they?), I would be interested to play simply because of the Canadian Champion title. As someone reviewing the bid, I am skeptic about 100 registrations being conservative. Good luck to you, I do hope you can pull it off.

2. Of course. I may be comparing it to how much CFC pays coaches at world youth, etc. over 9+ rounds, or comparing it to the projected prize fund.

3. I don't have a personal unbiased opinion about the matter. I like when rules are being followed though, just wondering why its selective. Simply going through the expenses.

---

Thanks for replying again Nikolay!

1) yes, prizes and conditions are guaranteed, but we're hoping to exceed them, hence the phrasing "minimum"

2) I hear ya, and we're starting with Danny, Hal, and myself. I hope most people consider that a decent start?!

3) To be honest, whereas there exists awareness of previous regulations, the bid is presented as is, with no commitment to such previous regulations. We just proposed what we felt was right, what would work, what would contribute the most to an excited buzz about the tournament. It is I guess confidence-inducing that some of our planning decisions matched popular previous regulations. We'll listen to any better ideas, but I can't see us matching a regulation just for the sake of it.

I hope that doesn't come across as arrogant. The #1 priority is a successful event for Canadian chess players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aris Marghetis

but these dates are deal-breakers. There's no other super-long-weekend in the year, and some hotels are starved for business on an otherwise "religious celebration" weekend. There's no other weekend where we can score so many deals and advantages.

---

That explains a lot, you are not free to choose the dates.

One question I have is regarding qualification for the top section. In the bid it states that players will not be permitted to play above the U2200 line. Will there be any provision for participation from smaller provinces? In each of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, none of the players in the most recent respective provincial closed championships were above 2200 at the beginning of the events. Would there be some avenue for smaller provinces nominating representatives for these events?