FIDE World Junior

[Bob Armstrong]

To Hal Bond, FIDE Rep.:

Here is a recent urgent message posted on the FIDE website:

Due to unforeseen circumstances beyond their control the Argentina Chess Federation will host the World Junior Chess Championships in the city of Puerto Madryn and not Mar del Plata from 21 October (arrival) to 4 November 2009 (departure).

FIDE has accepted the alternative venue proposed. All participants will be accommodated in the five-star Rayentray Hotel (www.cadenarayentray.com.ar).

The dates remain as announced.

The Argentinian Federation will be contacting those federations that have already registered.

Please note that due to the change of venue, registration for the World Junior Championship 2009 in Argentina will be extended to October 5th.

Someone should alert 2009 Canadian Junior Champion, Raja Panjwani, if he is intending to attend ( this may already have been done - don't know - hadn't seen anything on this yet ).

Bob

[Michael Barron]

Thank you, Bob!

Raja Panjwani informed me that he can't miss 2 weeks of school, but is intending to attend World Junior next year in August.

[Tony Ficzere]

Thank you, Bob!

Raja Panjwani informed me that he can't miss 2 weeks of school, but is intending to attend World Junior next year in August.

If Raja doesn't go this year, what would happen to the winner of the next Canadian Junior? We were thinking of holding it here in Calgary, but now we may not.

[Christopher Mallon]

I'm pretty sure only the current Junior champ can claim the free lodging, but Raja would still have the money towards his flight if he is allowed to play.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

If Raja doesn't go this year, what would happen to the winner of the next Canadian Junior? We were thinking of holding it here in Calgary, but now we may not.

What about the second place finisher for this year World Junior? (seems it is too late at this moment or not? (~ twenty days left))


The winner of the event shall be eligible to participate in the World Junior event. If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place. If the second place finisher also declines, the highest finisher in the tournament who is willing to participate in the world event, shall be selected

http://www.chess.ca/section_10.htm

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

I'm pretty sure only the current Junior champ can claim the free lodging

No. It is a representative and not limited to the champion.


"In addition to the players mentioned above, each affiliated federation has the right to send one representative in the juniors and one representative in the girls-20 championships."

[Tony Ficzere]

No. It is a representative and not limited to the champion.
We can send and pay for as many players as we want, but we would only get free lodging for the current champion.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

We can send and pay for as many players as we want, but we would only get free lodging for the current champion.

May you cite any source for your statement?
The invitation ( http://www.fide.com/images/stories/news2009/world/world_junior_champ_2009/invitation_wjcc_2009.pdf ) does not say that Federations will get free lodgings only for their champions. (they write about representatives)

[Tony Ficzere]

May you cite any source for your statement?
The invitation ( http://www.fide.com/images/stories/news2009/world/world_junior_champ_2009/invitation_wjcc_2009.pdf ) does not say that Federations will get free lodgings only for their champions. (they write about representatives)

Taken from the FIDE Handbook:

D.VI.01. World Junior Championships

5. Without prejudice to previous regulations on number of participants in this championship, each federation shall be entitled to register any number of participants it deems necessary provided the following conditions are met:

payment to FIDE of the approved fee of SFr. 200 per player in advance;
payment of the full board and lodge of the additional player(s) to the host chess federation;
the additional participants shall not be entitled to any other privileges such as payment of pocket money, etc. (if any), already reserved to the original nominee(s) of each federation (GA `97)

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Tony:

These regulations don't use the word " Champion ".

Is there an earlier regulation where " original nominee(s) " is defined as the " Champion "? Otherwise, it would seem anyone could be nominated by Canada as their " Original Nominee ", such as Raja, even if he was no longer the current Can. Champion.

But I would think that next year's Champion should be the " original nominee " and get whatever benefits that affords. Raja, if not the new Champions as well, would then be an additional participant.

One thing I'm not clear on - it was implied that if Raja didn't go this year, the $$ he won this year would be available to him to help defray his expenses should he go next year. Is this true? They can not be used for the World Junior they are intended for, and be carried forward? Obviously, if the second place finisher this year wanted to go, the $$ for travel would be spent by this second place replacement. Any help on this?

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Hi Tony:

These regulations don't use the word " Champion ".

Is there an earlier regulation where " original nominee(s) " is defined as the " Champion "? Otherwise, it would seem anyone could be nominated by Canada as their " Original Nominee ", such as Raja, even if he was no longer the current Can. Champion.

But I would think that next year's Champion should be the " original nominee " and get whatever benefits that affords. Raja, if not the new Champions as well, would then be an additional participant.

One thing I'm not clear on - it was implied that if Raja didn't go this year, the $$ he won this year would be available to him to help defray his expenses should he go next year. Is this true? They can not be used for the World Junior they are intended for, and be carried forward? Obviously, if the second place finisher this year wanted to go, the $$ for travel would be spent by this second place replacement. Any help on this?

Bob

Can I sign this? :)

[Tony Ficzere]

Hi Tony:

These regulations don't use the word " Champion ".

Is there an earlier regulation where " original nominee(s) " is defined as the " Champion "? Otherwise, it would seem anyone could be nominated by Canada as their " Original Nominee ", such as Raja, even if he was no longer the current Can. Champion.

But I would think that next year's Champion should be the " original nominee " and get whatever benefits that affords. Raja, if not the new Champions as well, would then be an additional participant.

One thing I'm not clear on - it was implied that if Raja didn't go this year, the $$ he won this year would be available to him to help defray his expenses should he go next year. Is this true? They can not be used for the World Junior they are intended for, and be carried forward? Obviously, if the second place finisher this year wanted to go, the $$ for travel would be spent by this second place replacement. Any help on this?

Bob
Bob, refer to the link for the full regulations.

http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook?id=107&view=article

I would think that if Raja doesn't want to go this year, then the spot should be offered to the 2nd place finisher (not much time to do that). Should no other player be willing to participate this year, then by all means let Raja participate next year with the CFC paying his airfare, and Raja picking up the cost for all other expenses. The winner of the 2010 Cdn Jr should get free accommodations (provided by host) and airfare (provided by CFC). Does this sound logical?

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Tony:

Seems eminently reasonable. Egis, what do you think?

Perhaps Michael might confirm to us that this is how he views it as well.

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Hi Tony:

Seems eminently reasonable. Egis, what do you think?

That is fine when the champion really goes. If (s)he decides not, than the CFC sends its representative (according to the Handbook - the second place finisher, etc) with all privileges. (That was my point in several previous posts.)

[Michael Barron]

Gentlemen,

You all are correct.

Let me clarify the situation:
We recently had problems with Canadian Junior organization.
Even this year we had only 12 participants - it's not enough to cover all expenses for the Canadian Junior itself and the trip to World Junior.
To save the Canadian Junior we decided:
1) winner gets a fixed amount as his prize - this year it was $1,000;
2) winner could use his prize to cover his expenses for participation in any major international tournament - not necessarily the World Junior of the same year.

Raja decided to use his prize for the World Junior 2010 in August - due to his University schedule.
He's aware that he will be registered as an additional player and have to pay all travel and accommodation expenses.

What about World Junior 2009 in Argentina next month?
I have invited second and third place finishers from the Canadian Junior 2009 (and Canadian Girl Champion too) to participate at the World Junior 2009 as an official Canadian representative, but didn't get positive answer yet.
The official Canadian representative will get accommodation paid by organizers, but should pay all other expenses from his own pocket, and this could be a problem.

As for the Canadian Junior 2010 - the winner gets the right to represent Canada at the World Junior 2010.

Tony,
Could you please let us know - when could we expect a bid?
I would like to avoid the repetition of this year problems... :)

[Tony Ficzere]

The Calgary Junior Chess Club is considering putting in a bid for the Canadian Junior. They are looking at holding it between Christmas & New Years 2009. If and when they get their bid together, they will send it in to the CFC.

[Michael Barron]

The Calgary Junior Chess Club is considering putting in a bid for the Canadian Junior. They are looking at holding it between Christmas & New Years 2009. If and when they get their bid together, they will send it in to the CFC.

Thank you, Tony, for information!

If I remember correctly, this year, when the Calgary Junior Chess Club submitted their bid for the Canadian Junior 6 weeks before the tournament start, this bid wasn't well accepted.
The common opinion was - for such tournament an announcement should be made at least 6 months in advance.
As result of low interest, the Calgary Junior Chess Club had to postpone the dates of tournament, the bidding process started from the beginning, and eventually they lose the Canadian Junior to Victoria.

I can't believe that the Calgary Junior Chess Club wants to repeat such experience...

[Tony Ficzere]

Thank you, Tony, for information!

If I remember correctly, this year, when the Calgary Junior Chess Club submitted their bid for the Canadian Junior 6 weeks before the tournament start, this bid wasn't well accepted.
The common opinion was - for such tournament an announcement should be made at least 6 months in advance.
As result of low interest, the Calgary Junior Chess Club had to postpone the dates of tournament, the bidding process started from the beginning, and eventually they lose the Canadian Junior to Victoria.

I can't believe that the Calgary Junior Chess Club wants to repeat such experience...
Yes, this is how it happened last year. I share your same concern.
For 2010, the World Junior will take place in Poland, I think from August 2-17. I can't remember the regulation but I think we need to notify them 60 days prior to the event with our players. In my mind, the best time to hold the Junior would have to be between Christmas & New Years. I know we are getting close to this date, and there is still no bid. All I can say is that if the Calgary Junior Chess Club does put forth a bid for 2010 during this years Christmas break, I will help them as much as possible. I am not sure how many players we could get from outside of Alberta.
Outside of Christmas time, when do you see the best time to host this event?

[Michael Barron]

Yes, this is how it happened last year. I share your same concern.
For 2010, the World Junior will take place in Poland, I think from August 2-17. I can't remember the regulation but I think we need to notify them 60 days prior to the event with our players. In my mind, the best time to hold the Junior would have to be between Christmas & New Years. I know we are getting close to this date, and there is still no bid. All I can say is that if the Calgary Junior Chess Club does put forth a bid for 2010 during this years Christmas break, I will help them as much as possible. I am not sure how many players we could get from outside of Alberta.
Outside of Christmas time, when do you see the best time to host this event?
Tony,
I would agree that the best time to hold the Junior would have to be between Christmas & New Years - if the bid is presented at the AGM in July.
Now, I afraid, it's too late.
Eric Hansen said that such tournament as Canadian Junior should be announced at least 6 months in advance.
I would suggest to host this event on the first week of May - just after spring session at Universities.

[Jonathan Berry]

Tony,
I would agree that the best time to hold the Junior would have to be between Christmas & New Years - if the bid is presented at the AGM in July.
Now, I afraid, it's too late.
Eric Hansen said that such tournament as Canadian Junior should be announced at least 6 months in advance.
I would suggest to host this event on the first week of May - just after spring session at Universities.

It has been known for the bidding process to be accelerated if no bids were presented at the proper time. I would think that the President would have the power to present such a bid to the governors. There are 77 days until December 26th. Of course, that assumes that a bid to hold the Canadian Junior (http://members.shaw.ca/berry5868/jun.htm#canjun) in the natural Xmas-New Year gap would be presented very very soon. I don't want to start an argument, just to state that "it's been done".

So, have the next Canadian Junior finishers been contacted about the spot available in Argentina in 2009? Since the first World Junior in 1951, the ultimate championship has been held 47 times. Canada has missed only 1955, 1961 (a player was entered and paid for, but he used the money for different chess purposes!), 1994, 2005, 2008. So we're holding at 42 appearances. Is that why 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of the Universe?

World Junior winners and Canadian participation. (http://members.shaw.ca/berry5868/jun.htm)

Edit: I see at the Argentine Chess Federation (http://www.ajedrez.com.ar/) site that GM Anton Kovalyov is among the special invitees to the 2009 World Junior. So is he Canadian? Or is the ultimate answer really 42+1/2, as I so long suspected?

[Michael Barron]

So, have the next Canadian Junior finishers been contacted about the spot available in Argentina in 2009?


Sorry, Jonathan, I can't contact the next Canadian Junior finishers, because I don't know who they are... :confused:
If you meant - last Canadian Junior finishers, yes, I have contacted them. :)



Edit: I see at the Argentine Chess Federation (http://www.ajedrez.com.ar/) site that GM Anton Kovalyov is among the special invitees to the 2009 World Junior. So is he Canadian? Or is the ultimate answer really 42+1/2, as I so long suspected?

GM Anton Kovalyov is Argentinian player, and invited as host country representative.