10. Bids for 2023 and 2024 Events and beyond

[Lyle Craver]

Please post any bids for coming events here. Supporting documents may be attached to your postings.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/ (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww-files.chess.ca%2Fcfc%2Fbids%2F2025-co-cycc%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C50e0ec051d554e7b36b208dba5c91726 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6382 86055332294821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GHeBSlX5LIIc8Q2zdFOml9tqqLbkHRBASCzs3%2B7OTu U%3D&reserved=0)

It is a "cover page" that has links to the bid documents themselves. That way if there are any more revisions to bids, the link to "cover page" will stay the same (no need to re-distribute) but the cover page will be changed to point to the latest revised bids.

-------- Don Parakin, CFC Webmaster, chess.ca (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchess.ca%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C50e0ec051d554e7b36b208dba5c91726 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6382 86055332294821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oPK84Y%2F23oZVxpsBHKzzNjRPTtTMH5GfUTY1pSSMMd c%3D&reserved=0)

Currently there are two bids from BC near Vancouver for the 2025 Canadian Youth Chess Championship and Canadian Open Chess Championship. Hal Bond's bid for Guelph should be available on Tuesday.

[Victoria Doknjas]

Greetings CFC Voting Members! We represent Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy (JtM) for the 2025 bid to host the Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) in Surrey, BC.

Our exhaustive search in the Greater Vancouver area resulted in the best venue in terms of 4-star hotel price ($189/night), space, and quality of life for players. We’re really invested in providing the best possible experience for players and families, which is why we negotiated a deal for much lower in price than almost any other hotel in the city during the summer (peak tourism season). Having the playing venue conveniently inside the hotel is also a huge benefit for players and their families. Finally, we used learnings from previous Canadian Opens and CYCCs to put together what we think are ideal schedules and tournament formats.

The Greater Vancouver area offers visitors easy access to many outdoor activities, including Grouse Mountain, Stanley Park, beaches, and much more. We also have world class restaurants and extensive shopping opportunities.

Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy look forward to using our team’s decades of collective experience to host these two iconic events, and to welcome players and their families to Surrey, BC. Thank you for your consideration.

Link to full details of our bid: https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/2025-Canadian-Open-and-CYCC-Bid-by-Vancity-Chess-and-JtM-July-5,2023.pdf

Victoria Doknjas
Co-Chair - Organizing Committee on behalf of:
Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy 2025 bid to host the Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) in Surrey, BC.

[Michael Lo]

The most common and proper way to handle late proposal submission in any bidding process is to reject it, especially with the other proposals already went public. Opinions.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

The Guelph proposal is not technically late. It has not been unusual for bids to arrive in the middle of a meeting.

[Michael Lo]

If there is only one proposal, there would be no issue. My concern is accepting a proposal after other proposals went public.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Under the old rules the bids are actually a year early. We have potentially three good bids for two years in the future. We definitely have two good bids now. The voting members will have a hard decision. We are going to require a 50% plus one vote to accept any bid. If no bid achieves that on the first ballot we will drop the bid with the fewest votes and have a second vote to determine the winner.

[Marc Moisan]

The most common and proper way to handle late proposal submission in any bidding process is to reject it, especially with the other proposals already went public. Opinions.

My opinion is that every bids deserve a chance as long as they are received before the vote. While discussions about the others might have already started and might put them at a disadvantage, that is a risk they take.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Michael Barron]

It's great that we're discussing bids for 2025 events!

But do we have all events approved for year 2024?
In particular, Excelsior Chess Club submitted bids for 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women's Closed.
What's the status of these bids?
Could we discuss and approve them at this meeting?

[Michael Lo]

My opinion is that every bids deserve a chance as long as they are received before the vote. While discussions about the others might have already started and might put them at a disadvantage, that is a risk they take.

Very interesting view on fairness and proper bidding procedure.

Michael

[Vladimir Drkulec]

It's great that we're discussing bids for 2025 events!

But do we have all events approved for year 2024?
In particular, Excelsior Chess Club submitted bids for 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women's Closed.
What's the status of these bids?
Could we discuss and approve them at this meeting?

I saw a bid on July 1st and got a notice that all events were cancelled a few days later.

[Nick Oancea]

Hi,

I confirm Excelsior Chess Club bid for 2024 Canadian Closed.

Thank you,
Nick Oancea

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Hi,

I confirm Excelsior Chess Club bid for 2024 Canadian Closed.

Thank you,
Nick Oancea

I have looked at the bid again. It could use some budget information and proposed prize funds and expenses based on different numbers of players. I like the idea of allowing 2000 rated players to play but I am likely in the minority on that point. if you keep that in, I might try to play.

[Vlad Rekhson]

I wish BCCF would make a determination first on which Vancouver area bid to submit. I hope that BC gets the Canadian Open since it’s been a while since it was held there but now their votes might be divided.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Could any one show me a time-machine room :)

" Bids for 2022/2023 Events"

[Don Hack]

Boy, this could go down a rat hole quickly.

For my education - where are the rules of bidding formally published/documented?

Per an earlier comment, unless it is documented in the official rules, I would not think it is the place of a regional group (i.e., BCCF) to prune national bid submissions.

Thanks, Don

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Could any one show me a time-machine room :)

" Bids for 2022/2023 Events"

My fault. I missed the edit when cutting and pasting from last year's meeting.

[Marc Moisan]

For my education - where are the rules of bidding formally published/documented?

The only thing I found is what to consider in evaluating bids (in section 6):
https://www.chess.ca/en/cfc/rules/cfc-handbook-2014/#section-6---requirements-and-guidelines-for-important-events


Per an earlier comment, unless it is documented in the official rules, I would not think it is the place of a regional group (i.e., BCCF) to prune national bid submissions.

I agree with you, the two organizers choose to submit separate bids, they should each be considered on the merit.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Victor Plotkin]

I have looked at the bid again. It could use some budget information and proposed prize funds and expenses based on different numbers of players. I like the idea of allowing 2000 rated players to play but I am likely in the minority on that point. if you keep that in, I might try to play.

While Canadian Zonal has many non-financial incentives, decent prize fund is still important. The same approach for other National Championships.

[Paul Leblanc]

We have two brilliant offers from Vancouver and it has been a long time since Vancouver hosted a Canadian Open. I agree with Vlad's decision to require the winning bid to get 51% of the votes, using a second vote if necessary. This is a better solution than asking the BCCF to pare down the proposals.
Paul Leblanc, President BCCF

[Don Hack]

[QUOTE=Marc Moisan;45665]The only thing I found is what to consider in evaluating bids (in section 6):
https://www.chess.ca/en/cfc/rules/cfc-handbook-2014/#section-6---requirements-and-guidelines-for-important-events

Thank you Marc.
Paper chess boards and clock flags; I wonder if this section needs a refresh. 8^)

The particular questions being asked about time lines, bid submissions, etc. might be added to this document.

[Marc Moisan]

The particular questions being asked about time lines, bid submissions, etc. might be added to this document.

It wouldn't hurt to have deadlines for bid submissions, especially if there is to be multiple bidders.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Vladimir Drkulec]

It wouldn't hurt to have deadlines for bid submissions, especially if there is to be multiple bidders.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

There are deadlines but they are no longer relevant as we move to having bids come in earlier and earlier. Having the 2024 AGM as the deadline for 2025 just increases the entropy to the point that we can no longer count on the Canadian Open and other events being organized.

[Don Parakin]

A tough decision. I am desperately looking for some unbiased criteria on which to decide. One criteria I thought might be useful is to see if any region has under- or over-hosted the CO/CYCC relative to their share of the membership population. The results, unfortunately, do not point strongly in any direction. I'm posting the results here in case any other VM is curious if this could be a deciding factor. I'll have to look for other criteria :(

(WRONG: See correction below in this POST (https://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?6199-10-Bids-for-2023-and-2024-Events-and-beyond&p=45690#post45690))
Result: In the 25 years prior to 2025, the West hosted 30.4% with 30.8% of members; Central hosted 65.2% with 63.6% members; and East hosted 4.4% with 5.6% of members. No region's hosting vs members differs by greater than 2% so there is no significant imbalance that needs correcting.

Method: I grouped provinces into 3 regions to avoid unfair fragmentation. I used the latest CFC membership statistics (https://www.chess.ca/en/cfc/membership-statistics/) from May, 2023 as well as an estimate of 1,100 FQE members (CFC & FQE members can play in each other's tournaments so I considered FQE part of the same chess playing community).

Raw data (with thanks to Bob Gillanders): 2000 - Edmonton, AB; 2001 - Sackville, NB; 2002 - Montreal, QC; 2003 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2004 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2005 - Edmonton, AB; 2006 - Kitchener, ON; 2007 - Ottawa, ON; 2008 - Montreal, QC; 2009 - Edmonton, AB; 2010 - Toronto, ON; 2011 - Toronto, ON; 2012 - Victoria, BC; 2013 - Ottawa, ON; 2014 - Montreal, QC; 2015 - Windsor, ON (CYCC Only); 2016 - Windsor, ON; 2017 - Sault Ste Marie, ON; 2018 - Quebec City, QC; 2019 - Regina, SK; 2020 - (none); 2021 - (none); 2022 - Hamilton, ON; 2023 - Calgary, AB; 2024 - Montreal, QC.

[Aris Marghetis]

Thanks Don for a very interesting post!

Made me realize I had some (mistaken) subjective assumptions.

[Don Hack]

My first pass at suggested bid evaluation in order of importance.

1) Can the bidder deliver?
Are they financially sound and have experience of hosting such an event?

2) Is the proposal going to attract sufficient attendance to merit being a “National" event?
Easy to attend, reasonable accommodation, sufficient site capacity, prize funds, etc.

3) Is it a sound chess environment?
Environmental (e.g., space, lighting, acceptable tables/chairs, air flow, temperature, etc.), officials, equipment, appropriate time controls, skittles room, etc.

4) Bells and whistles
Interesting/challenging/entertaining chess side events & non-chess attractions (i.e., tourism)

[Marc Moisan]

My first pass at suggested bid evaluation in order of importance.

1) Can the bidder deliver?
Are they financially sound and have experience of hosting such an event?

2) Is the proposal going to attract sufficient attendance to merit being a “National" event?
Easy to attend, reasonable accommodation, sufficient site capacity, prize funds, etc.

3) Is it a sound chess environment?
Environmental (e.g., space, lighting, acceptable tables/chairs, air flow, temperature, etc.), officials, equipment, appropriate time controls, skittles room, etc.

4) Bells and whistles
Interesting/challenging/entertaining chess side events & non-chess attractions (i.e., tourism)

These are great points, Don, I agree with those criteria completely. But I also believe that national events should be hosted in different region of the country from time to time. Which is why I also like the stats provided by Don Parakin, quite informative.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Don Parakin]

Result: In the 25 years prior to 2025, the West hosted 30.4% with 30.8% of members; Central hosted 65.2% with 63.6% members; and East hosted 4.4% with 5.6% of members. No region's hosting vs members differs by greater than 2% so there is no significant imbalance that needs correcting.

With an extremely red face, I must post this correction. Looking at my spreadsheet, I noticed I had 2008 Montreal under the West's column. This changes the numbers for West & Central ...

(Corrected) Result: In the 25 years prior to 2025, the West hosted 26.1% with 30.8% of members; Central hosted 69.6% with 63.6% members; and East hosted 4.4% with 5.6% of members.

So, the West has under-hosted by 4.7 points and Central has over-hosted by 6.0%. By this (imperfect) criteria, the West has a case that it is their turn.

As others have pointed out, this should not be the only criteria. There are some basic criteria that should be used to decide if a bid even makes the "short list". And some other intangible criteria should be considered too. This is just one input.

EDIT: At this LINK (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WwQFqt6e7U3REX_VpMSZmjE5b3HaaXHDE6FuZiHDa8I/edit?usp=sharing), anyone can re-check my calculations. Seems my calculating ability in spreadsheets has deteriorated as much as it has in chess.

[Lyle Craver]

I have received a bid from Hal Bond concerning Guelph's 2025 bid and have forwarded it to Vlad and the Business Office for posting here as I do not have direct access to the CFC server.

[Don Parakin]

I have received a bid from Hal Bond ...

Guelph's bid and the other bids are now available at: https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/

(If you still see "coming soon" for Guelph, refresh your browser cache with Ctrl+R)

[Lyle Craver]

I concur with Marc's opinion on this subject.

[Marc Moisan]

I am reading through the Guelph submission and I can't help but ask myself a few questions. The bid states that 100% of the entry fees will be given as prizes, if that is the case, I wonder how the tournament expenses will be covered. Perhaps they meant to say all entry fees after expenses. In fact, I was looking for the budget to help me answer that question but that was also nowhere to be found.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Michael Barron]

Vlad,

Could you please post the bid for all Voting Members to see?

[Don Parakin]

Could you please post the bid for all Voting Members to see?

Michael, this link has links to all 3 bids: https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/

[Michael Barron]

Michael, this link has links to all 3 bids: https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/

Sorry, Don, if I was not clear enough... :(

I'm asking about a bid for 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women's Closed.
As far as know, there is only one bid for this event - from Excelsior Chess Club.
As Vlad confirmed, the CFC Executive received this bid on July 1st, and the opening of this Meeting is the deadline for submitting bids for 2024 National Championships.
I think, we need to discuss and approve this bid at this Meeting, because only 6 months left before the event starts and the prospective players need this time to properly plan their participation.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I am reading through the Guelph submission and I can't help but ask myself a few questions. The bid states that 100% of the entry fees will be given as prizes, if that is the case, I wonder how the tournament expenses will be covered. Perhaps they meant to say all entry fees after expenses. In fact, I was looking for the budget to help me answer that question but that was also nowhere to be found.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

He has some sponsors lined up. With almost two years to showtime I would expect the winning bid will have additional sponsorship regardless of who that is.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Sorry, Don, if I was not clear enough... :(

I'm asking about a bid for 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women's Closed.
As far as know, there is only one bid for this event - from Excelsior Chess Club.
As Vlad confirmed, the CFC Executive received this bid on July 1st, and the opening of this Meeting is the deadline for submitting bids for 2024 National Championships.
I think, we need to discuss and approve this bid at this Meeting, because only 6 months left before the event starts and the prospective players need this time to properly plan their participation.

We received this bid and we also received a cancellation of this bid with the first indication that there might be interest in reactivating this bid coming in the AGM. On this evening I am submitting this and other events at a sport hosting conference that takes place in Ottawa next month.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

The bid arrived as a word document which the forum does not allow me to upload. In the case of a single bid, it goes to the executive. So far Victor Plotkin and I are the only members of the executive who have seen it.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Tournament Name: 2024 Canadian Women Closed Championship
9 rounds, 6 days; from March 27 to April 1, CFC and FQE membership required
Date: Starts on Wednesday, March 27, 2024 @ 6pm
Organizer: Excelsior Chess Club, 206-91 Skyway Avenue, Etobicoke, Ontario, M9W 6R5
Endorsement: Chess Federation of Canada (CFC)
Eligibility: Canadian residents having a CFC rating equal or greater than 1400
Registration / Check - In:
Advance registration on-line ends March 26 at 11:59 pm. Onsite registration 4:00pm – 5:00pm March 27
Check-In: 5 pm – 5:30 pm on Wednesday, March 27, 2024
Capacity: 40 players
Time Control: 90 minutes + 30 seconds per move
Format: 9 Rounds Swiss (using CFC regular rating)
Sections: Open (rated CFC and FIDE)
Schedule: March 27 @ 6pm, March 28 @ 11am and 5pm, March 29 @ 11am and 5pm, March 30 @ 11am, March 31 @ 11am and 5pm, and April 1 @ 11am. Please arrive at least 15 minutes earlier
Entry Fees:
Entry Fee: $ 200
On site: $ 250
Free entry for WGM / WIM
Please pay the entry fee via e-mail transfer at contact@excelsiorchessclub.ca
Prizes:
• Prizes based on entries
• Trophy for the Champion and medals for the first three places
• All cash prizes are in Canadian dollars
Byes: Zero-point byes only
Arbiter: IA Hal Bond
Special notes: in case of equality of points the ranking will be decided by tie-break using Buchholz system as the first tie-break
Free Refreshments: water, tea, coffee
Equipment: provided; 8 DGT boards available; live streaming on Excelsior website, and club premises (three monitors available)
Other benefits: plenty of free parking available, large individual washrooms for female and male available, safety assured by security cameras, two separate cubicles of 8 players each available for the first 16 players playing the DGT boards, skittles room available if running under 88 players, Swiss Manager tool used for running the tournament, a team of experienced arbiters, microphone available, HVAC, quality wood boards and DGT 3000 limited edition clocks for all players, monitors used to post the pairings, results and rankings after each round, lot of food places and hotels nearby, TTC available and close to HYW 401, HYW 27, and HWY 427, music available before the tournaments start, friends, family or supporters allowed, free Wi-Fi, and a big commitment from the club’s team for providing participants with the best chess experience possible
CFC and FQE membership: required; players can pay the annual CFC membership on-site ($ 48 / Adult, $ 32 / Junior)

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Tournament Name: 2024 Canadian Closed Championship
9 rounds, 6 days; from March 27 to April 1, CFC and FQE membership required
Date: Starts on Wednesday, March 27, 2024 @ 6pm
Organizer: Excelsior Chess Club, 206-91 Skyway Avenue, Etobicoke, Ontario, M9W 6R5
Endorsement: Chess Federation of Canada (CFC)
Eligibility: Canadian residents having a CFC rating equal or greater than 2000
Registration / Check - In:
Advance registration on-line ends March 26 at 11:59 pm. Onsite registration 4:00pm – 5:00pm March 27
Check-In: 5 pm – 5:30 pm on Wednesday, March 27, 2024
Capacity: 60 players
Time Control: 90 minutes + 30 seconds per move
Format: 9 Rounds Swiss (using CFC regular rating)
Sections: Open (rated CFC and FIDE)
Schedule: March 27 @ 6pm, March 28 @ 11am and 5pm, March 29 @ 11am and 5pm, March 30 @ 11am, March 31 @ 11am and 5pm, and April 1 @ 11am. Please arrive at least 15 minutes earlier
Entry Fees:
Entry Fee IM: $ 100
Entry Fee: $ 200
On site: $ 250
Free entry for GM
Please pay the entry fee via e-mail transfer at contact@excelsiorchessclub.ca
Prizes:
• Prizes based on entries
• Trophy for the Champion and medals for the first three places
• All cash prizes are in Canadian dollars
Byes: Zero-point byes only
Arbiter: IA Hal Bond
Special notes: in case of equality of points the ranking will be decided by tie-break using Buchholz system as the first tie-break
Free Refreshments: water, tea, coffee
Equipment: provided; 8 DGT boards available; live streaming on Excelsior website, and club premises (three monitors available)
Other benefits: plenty of free parking available, large individual washrooms for female and male available, safety assured by security cameras, two separate cubicles of 8 players each available for the first 16 players playing the DGT boards, skittles room available if running under 88 players, Swiss Manager tool used for running the tournament, a team of experienced arbiters, microphone available, HVAC, quality wood boards and DGT 3000 limited edition clocks for all players, monitors used to post the pairings, results and rankings after each round, lot of food places and hotels nearby, TTC available and close to HYW 401, HYW 27, and HWY 427, music available before the tournaments start, friends, family or supporters allowed, free Wi-Fi, and a big commitment from the club’s team for providing participants with the best chess experience possible
CFC and FQE membership: required; players can pay the annual CFC membership on-site ($ 48 / Adult, $ 32 / Junior)

[Mahmud Hassain]

Dear President Drkulec, Executives and Voting Members,

On behalf of the Organizing Committee for Guelph-2025, I wish to thank you in advance for your consideration.

First, I wish to highlight a possible conflict of interest on my part. While being on the organizing committee, I am also a VM. I am kindly asking you to rule on this topic.

Second, to clarify the question of expenses, we are committing to a MINIMUM 100% of entry fees to the Open be returned as a prize fund. No mistake in this statement! Yes, that could be as much as $100,000 with 400 players.
Our model and plan is that all expenses be paid by corporate sponsorships, in kind, donations and public contribution. For over a year, we have been doing our home work and we are hoping to change how important Chess events in Canada be organized.

This Committee has over 120 years commutative chess playing and organizing. In addition, it includes past CFC President and past CFC Executive Director and past CFC Youth Coordinator. We hope you support our bid. Meanwhile, we invite you to voice any question you may have.

Sincerely,
Mahmud

[Vladimir Drkulec]

We want voting members involved in organizing tournaments. You are allowed to vote for your own submission. There is no conflict if you believe that it is the best bid from the point of view of the CFC. There are voting members involved in every bid, I believe, and that is a very good thing.

[Mahmud Hassain]

We want voting members involved in organizing tournaments. You are allowed to vote for your own submission. There is no conflict if you believe that it is the best bid from the point of view of the CFC. There are voting members involved in every bid, I believe, and that is a very good thing.

Thank you, President Drkulec.
Just wanted to make sure all is appropriate!
Mahmud

[Mahmud Hassain]

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/ (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww-files.chess.ca%2Fcfc%2Fbids%2F2025-co-cycc%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C50e0ec051d554e7b36b208dba5c91726 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6382 86055332294821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GHeBSlX5LIIc8Q2zdFOml9tqqLbkHRBASCzs3%2B7OTu U%3D&reserved=0)

It is a "cover page" that has links to the bid documents themselves. That way if there are any more revisions to bids, the link to "cover page" will stay the same (no need to re-distribute) but the cover page will be changed to point to the latest revised bids.

-------- Don Parakin, CFC Webmaster, chess.ca (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchess.ca%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C50e0ec051d554e7b36b208dba5c91726 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6382 86055332294821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oPK84Y%2F23oZVxpsBHKzzNjRPTtTMH5GfUTY1pSSMMd c%3D&reserved=0)

Currently there are two bids from BC near Vancouver for the 2025 Canadian Youth Chess Championship and Canadian Open Chess Championship. Hal Bond's bid for Guelph should be available on Tuesday.

Hi Don,
No matter how I searched, the Guelph bid is not easily or readily available for VM's consideration.
I am asking you to rectify
Thank you
Mahmud

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Hi Don,
No matter how I searched, the Guelph bid is not easily or readily available for VM's consideration.
I am asking you to rectify
Thank you
Mahmud

The bid as presented seems readily available to me. Is anyone else unable to access one or more of the bids at the following link?

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/

[Mahmud Hassain]

On my Laptop, it still does not show. Not sure what the glitch is.
Guelph's bid still does not show.
Please correct me if I were wrong! But here it is black!

[Murray Chu]

The bid as presented seems readily available to me. Is anyone else unable to access one or more of the bids at the following link?

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/

Works for me, I've been able to see all three bids for 2025

[Mahmud Hassain]

Works for me, I've been able to see all three bids for 2025

Here it is BLACK. Coming soon! BUT, I saw it on my smart phone.

[Don Parakin]

Here it is BLACK. Coming soon! BUT, I saw it on my smart phone.
Mahmud, I've sent you an email. Let's resolve this offline. Thanks. (FYI, I added buttons to the cover page to help finding the clickable links)

[Victor Plotkin]

We have excellent bids for 2025 CYCC-CO. A tough choice for VMs.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

On my Laptop, it still does not show. Not sure what the glitch is.
Guelph's bid still does not show.
Please correct me if I were wrong! But here it is black!

Refresh your page. To speed up access, browsers cache data and you probably accessed the page before the Guelph bid was added. You are reading from the cache. Alternatively, try using another browser which is what you are doing when you access it from your phone.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Here are the links to the pdfs

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/2025-Canadian-Open-and-CYCC-Bid-by-Vancity-Chess-and-JtM-July-5,2023.pdf

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/2025-CYCC-COCC-Bid-Book-by-Penny-Chess-Club-Revised-0823.pdf

https://www-files.chess.ca/cfc/bids/2025-co-cycc/Guelph-2025.pdf

[Tyler Sanderson]

There’s been some great discussion among the three bids for the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC. I think all three bids have their strong points. I’m associated with the Surrey, BC bid, and we created our bid with the vision for the best possible experience for players and families.

So for those who are still undecided, it may be important to consider these points:

Affordable premium hotel price (e.g. $189/night)
Having the playing venue conveniently inside the hotel is a huge benefit for players and their families, especially those with young kids
The Greater Vancouver area is a very desirable tourist destination
BC is long overdue to host the Canadian Open and CYCC

We’d be happy to address any questions you have regarding our bid.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

My hope would be that whoever loses this time will resubmit a similar bid for the following year.

[Michael Lo]

I have created a proposals summary for my own use and is sharing it for those who are interested.

I tried to extract as much relevant information as possible, and as accurate as possible. I do not guarantee the correctness of the data, you should refer to/verify with the proposals.

If any of the bidders would like to make corrections to the spreadsheet, please consolidate and post the corrections you would like to make in ONE post, do not request multiple updates in separate posts. I reserve the right to NOT update multiple requests in separate posts.

Proposals summary - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWmr0xKdhesE_9FxLCdGYJHtHhfe8NelBgr7eeXVMCs/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers,
Michael Lo

[Vladimir Drkulec]

A tough decision. I am desperately looking for some unbiased criteria on which to decide. One criteria I thought might be useful is to see if any region has under- or over-hosted the CO/CYCC relative to their share of the membership population. The results, unfortunately, do not point strongly in any direction. I'm posting the results here in case any other VM is curious if this could be a deciding factor. I'll have to look for other criteria :(

(WRONG: See correction below in this POST (https://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?6199-10-Bids-for-2023-and-2024-Events-and-beyond&p=45690#post45690))
Result: In the 25 years prior to 2025, the West hosted 30.4% with 30.8% of members; Central hosted 65.2% with 63.6% members; and East hosted 4.4% with 5.6% of members. No region's hosting vs members differs by greater than 2% so there is no significant imbalance that needs correcting.

Method: I grouped provinces into 3 regions to avoid unfair fragmentation. I used the latest CFC membership statistics (https://www.chess.ca/en/cfc/membership-statistics/) from May, 2023 as well as an estimate of 1,100 FQE members (CFC & FQE members can play in each other's tournaments so I considered FQE part of the same chess playing community).

Raw data (with thanks to Bob Gillanders): 2000 - Edmonton, AB; 2001 - Sackville, NB; 2002 - Montreal, QC; 2003 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2004 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2005 - Edmonton, AB; 2006 - Kitchener, ON; 2007 - Ottawa, ON; 2008 - Montreal, QC; 2009 - Edmonton, AB; 2010 - Toronto, ON; 2011 - Toronto, ON; 2012 - Victoria, BC; 2013 - Ottawa, ON; 2014 - Montreal, QC; 2015 - Windsor, ON (CYCC Only); 2016 - Windsor, ON; 2017 - Sault Ste Marie, ON; 2018 - Quebec City, QC; 2019 - Regina, SK; 2020 - (none); 2021 - (none); 2022 - Hamilton, ON; 2023 - Calgary, AB; 2024 - Montreal, QC.

The time frame is everything. You would get slightly different numbers if you look at the last ten times the tournaments were held which is a more realistic time frame.

The voting members have a difficult decision ahead of them. All three bids would be good options if they were only bids.

[Don Hack]

A tough decision. I am desperately looking for some unbiased criteria on which to decide. One criteria I thought might be useful is to see if any region has under- or over-hosted the CO/CYCC relative to their share of the membership population. The results, unfortunately, do not point strongly in any direction. I'm posting the results here in case any other VM is curious if this could be a deciding factor. I'll have to look for other criteria :(

(WRONG: See correction below in this POST (https://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?6199-10-Bids-for-2023-and-2024-Events-and-beyond&p=45690#post45690))
Result: In the 25 years prior to 2025, the West hosted 30.4% with 30.8% of members; Central hosted 65.2% with 63.6% members; and East hosted 4.4% with 5.6% of members. No region's hosting vs members differs by greater than 2% so there is no significant imbalance that needs correcting.

Method: I grouped provinces into 3 regions to avoid unfair fragmentation. I used the latest CFC membership statistics (https://www.chess.ca/en/cfc/membership-statistics/) from May, 2023 as well as an estimate of 1,100 FQE members (CFC & FQE members can play in each other's tournaments so I considered FQE part of the same chess playing community).

Raw data (with thanks to Bob Gillanders): 2000 - Edmonton, AB; 2001 - Sackville, NB; 2002 - Montreal, QC; 2003 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2004 - Kapuskasing, ON; 2005 - Edmonton, AB; 2006 - Kitchener, ON; 2007 - Ottawa, ON; 2008 - Montreal, QC; 2009 - Edmonton, AB; 2010 - Toronto, ON; 2011 - Toronto, ON; 2012 - Victoria, BC; 2013 - Ottawa, ON; 2014 - Montreal, QC; 2015 - Windsor, ON (CYCC Only); 2016 - Windsor, ON; 2017 - Sault Ste Marie, ON; 2018 - Quebec City, QC; 2019 - Regina, SK; 2020 - (none); 2021 - (none); 2022 - Hamilton, ON; 2023 - Calgary, AB; 2024 - Montreal, QC.

Don P - thank you for the data.
A bit of a nerdy question, do you by chance know if there were competing/losing bids from other regions?
I get the goal of regional balance, especially for a geographically large country. However, if only one region bids, it is not a bias if they are awarded.
Again, just curious.

Don H.

[Marc Moisan]

I have created a proposals summary for my own use and is sharing it for those who are interested.

Proposals summary - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWmr0xKdhesE_9FxLCdGYJHtHhfe8NelBgr7eeXVMCs/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you so much Mike, this is indeed quite useful having all the data quickly available for quick comparison.

Cheers,

Marc Moisan, CD, PLog

[Vlad Rekhson]

I have created a proposals summary for my own use and is sharing it for those who are interested.

I tried to extract as much relevant information as possible, and as accurate as possible. I do not guarantee the correctness of the data, you should refer to/verify with the proposals.

If any of the bidders would like to make corrections to the spreadsheet, please consolidate and post the corrections you would like to make in ONE post, do not request multiple updates in separate posts. I reserve the right to NOT update multiple requests in separate posts.

Proposals summary - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWmr0xKdhesE_9FxLCdGYJHtHhfe8NelBgr7eeXVMCs/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers,
Michael Lo

I believe the schedule for Vancity bid is wrong. They have the usual days for CYCC and 7 for Can Open.

[Michael Lo]

I believe the schedule for Vancity bid is wrong. They have the usual days for CYCC and 7 for Can Open.

Updated. Thank you.

[Richard Bowes]

The most common and proper way to handle late proposal submission in any bidding process is to reject it, especially with the other proposals already went public. Opinions.

The CFC bidding procedure is flawed. The Guelph organizers have had access to their competitor's bids prior to submitting their own. This may well breach the duty of fairness required in the bidding process.

[Michael Barron]

Thank you, Vlad!

Could we approve 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women Closed bids at this Meeting?

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Thank you, Vlad!

Could we approve 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women Closed bids at this Meeting?

No, we cannot. When there is just one bid, it goes to the executive. I am sure that everything can be worked out and will be worked out.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

As the number of players in Youth championship increased significantly, organizers should consider increasing the round number to 9 or more.

[Lyle Craver]

In what way are you suggesting the BCCF is "pruning" bids? To me "pruning" suggests another BC organizer group which I don't believe is true.

Just curious but that is not at all clear to me.

[CAVEAT: while in addition to being the CFC Secretary, I am also a BCCF Executive Member at Large but I was unable to attend their AGM on May 21 so am seeing the bids for the first time at this meeting]

[Lyle Craver]

While I understand and appreciate Vlad's and Bob's historical stats one factor in judging any bid is the subject of transportation links to the tournament site particularly from outside that region.

I do not believe this was always sufficiently reflected in acceptance of bids and I remember extremely well the Kapuskasing events which largely due to the need to drive to the events due to lack of ability to get there by any other means severely limited the ability of players from outside Ontario to play. In the second Kapuskasing open there were ZERO players from BC, AB, SK or MB (I know this because my Governors proxy was voted by an Ontario Governor despite it saying that it was to be voted preferably by a BC governor and failing that from one from AB, SK or MB). This was confirmed to me after the event by then president Maurice Smith who I knew well from my days at the Scarborough Chess Club when I lived in Ontario.

The attitude in Vancouver was that one Kapuskasing event was bearable but awarding a second consecutive one to them demonstrated total lack of caring by Ontario governors. The bottom line is that holding the second Kapuskasing event badly damaged relations between the CFC and BCCF in particular (I know - I was both a CFC Executive member and a BCCF Executive member that year and heard a lot of talk on the subject - Lynn Stringer and I worked hard to prevent serious attempts at disaffiliation) and the subject WAS discussed by the BCCF executive. Some BC hotheads said publicly that they were convinced Kapuskasing 2005 demonstarted dis-affiliation was warranted. (Note that the BCCF _did_ disaffiliate in the 1960s when I was a young teenage junior and how pleased I was to hear that we had re-joined. It wasn't until my 4th year of tournament play that I got a CFC rating - before that BC used "the Northwest System" which was BC / WA / OR. The attitude in BC after Kapuskasing 2005 was 'we can stand being excluded from one event but being excluded from two consecutive opens is unconscionable" and that's a quote (from memory but quite close) from that year's BCCF president.

Past CFC presidents felt that mostly for geographic / population reasons ON should get the bids 2 of 4 years (preferably NOT in consecutive years) with one in each 4 year cycle going to Western Canada and the Maritimes. (Two CFC presidents told me that one from ON one from BC) and I think people from out here in BC accepted that. (Internet discussion of chess matters didn't exist at that time so there was little discussion on a national scale - in those days "The CFC Governors' Letter" really was a compilation of letters!)

So no question I reject the idea that every location in a province is equally accessible to people outside that region (I speak as someone who has visited all ten provinces, worked in six and played chess in three of them)

I have other things to say but will say them privately to the Executive as I do think there have been regional injustices done concerning some of the sites chosen.

I do NOT feel these comments apply to any of the three bids on the table now.

[pennypham]

Dear CFC Voting Members:

Greetings from Penny Chess Club and on behalf of the Organizing Committee I would like to express our sincere gratitude for your consideration and support on our bid to host 2025 Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship in Burnaby, BC.

We have been working diligently to source the right venue to host those honorable events and as for accommodations besides the hotel rooms we are thrilled to announce the offsite accommodations option of staying in Simon Fraser University (SFU) which is less than 20 minutes drive to the Tournament Hall with the details as follows:

- Single bed private room ($65/night) - this is exceptionally affordable in Burnaby
- Double Queen rooms ($152 - $199/night)
- Townhouse w/ 4 single-occupancy bedrooms ($280/night)

We could coordinate to arrange shuttle bus for the convenience of the players as needed.

In addition we are confident we could get more sponsorship to increase the COCC Prize fund as We are the most popular chess club in Metro Vancouver area with 5 locations across 5 cities to serve more than 500 students and we have been receiving more and more sponsorships in our Quarterly CFC Rated Tournaments ( Greater Vancouver Chess Tournaments) which attracts more than 200 participants each time.

We sincerely wish to get your consideration and should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact.

WIM Ngoc Pham (Penny)
Founder & Head Coach
Penny Chess Club
www.pennychessclub.ca"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Victor Plotkin]

As the number of players in Youth championship increased significantly, organizers should consider increasing the round number to 9 or more.

At least to 8, which is full 4 days of chess.

[Vlad Rekhson]

First of all I think we have 3 very good bids which makes it tricky to choose. Personally I will be voting for the Vancity, Surrey bid for the following reason:
1) I think it would be nice to have the event in Vancouver as BC didn’t host it for more than 10 years and Vancouver even longer than that so it would be good time.
2) When comparing accommodation in other bids it is either not practical or too expensive. I think it makes no sense to get a cheaper rate with a hotel 3.5 km away as in the Guelph bid only to have to offer shuttles. Especially, as there are much closer hotel options (presumably more expensive). With Burnaby bid the rate is quite a bit more expensive. Again, there are cheaper accommodations but they are 20 minutes driving distance away.
3) The Guelph bid looks very nice in terms of prize fund being high but it relies on attaining sponsorship which of course might be possible but is uncertain.
4) With the Burnaby bid, the Canadian Open starts on the evening of the last round of the Canadian Youth. That could save the organizers some costs but it will be more difficult for the Youth players who play both events, additionally, as we found in Calgary this year when we had the same schedule, that created a problem with hotel accommodation as many rooms used for CYCC were not yet free for the Canadian Open attendees.

In any case, I am sure that whoever wins the bid will have a great Canadian Open!

[Don Parakin]

In the second Kapuskasing open there were ZERO players from BC, AB, SK or MB

That may have been because on the very same dates BC hosted the "2004 Western Canadian Open", the only time this championship appears in the database back to ~1996. Seems there was a lot of unpleasantness around this whole affair from (over?)application of rules to reject bids to protest events. I'm reminded of the difficult job our executive does for us especially in "lose-lose" situations with consequences that are unintended.

[pennypham]

Thanks Vlad’s for your insight and we are fully aware of the fact of comparatively higher hotel room rate due to its location as the heart of Metro Vancouver area with only 25 minutes from Vancouver Airport and 20 minutes to downtown Vancouver by convenient Skytrain which makes easier and more convenient for all players and spectators.

We are glad to update that in order to support our bidding the Delta Hotel Burnaby Conference Center as agreed to lower the rate to $246/night for both Standard and Deluxe 2 Queens Bed Room from previous $275 for Standard and $290 for the Deluxe.

In addition they are working on how much they could lower for the Tournament Hall rental and ANY savings from previous quote will be added into the Canadian Open Prize.

We sincerely wish all voting members take all factors into consideration when making decisions.

Thanks again for your consideration and support.

WIM Ngoc Pham (Penny)
Founder & Head Coach
Penny Chess Club
www.pennychessclub.ca

[Vladimir Drkulec]

First of all I think we have 3 very good bids which makes it tricky to choose. Personally I will be voting for the Vancity, Surrey bid for the following reason:
1) I think it would be nice to have the event in Vancouver as BC didn’t host it for more than 10 years and Vancouver even longer than that so it would be good time.
2) When comparing accommodation in other bids it is either not practical or too expensive. I think it makes no sense to get a cheaper rate with a hotel 3.5 km away as in the Guelph bid only to have to offer shuttles. Especially, as there are much closer hotel options (presumably more expensive). With Burnaby bid the rate is quite a bit more expensive. Again, there are cheaper accommodations but they are 20 minutes driving distance away.
3) The Guelph bid looks very nice in terms of prize fund being high but it relies on attaining sponsorship which of course might be possible but is uncertain.
4) With the Burnaby bid, the Canadian Open starts on the evening of the last round of the Canadian Youth. That could save the organizers some costs but it will be more difficult for the Youth players who play both events, additionally, as we found in Calgary this year when we had the same schedule, that created a problem with hotel accommodation as many rooms used for CYCC were not yet free for the Canadian Open attendees.

In any case, I am sure that whoever wins the bid will have a great Canadian Open!

Hal has sent me an email and is a bit miffed at what he sees as disrespect towards the guarantees (100% of entry fees) built into the bid. The committee is so confident in their fundraising that they have offered to have the CFC collect their entry fees for the Canadian Open and hold it in trust. My understanding from speaking with Mahmud is that they already have enough sponsorship to cover everything in the bid. Remember that Guelph/Waterloo is a high tech hub and they have sponsorships from some very well known companies any one of which would be impressive by itself. The community is really coming together. If Hal Bond says that they have the money, they have the money.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

These are all three good bids. Whichever bid is accepted will be even better by the time these events take place. I am not favouring one bid over another by relaying what Hal said.

[Vlad Rekhson]

Hal has sent me an email and is a bit miffed at what he sees as disrespect towards the guarantees (100% of entry fees) built into the bid. The committee is so confident in their fundraising that they have offered to have the CFC collect their entry fees for the Canadian Open and hold it in trust. My understanding from speaking with Mahmud is that they already have enough sponsorship to cover everything in the bid. Remember that Guelph/Waterloo is a high tech hub and they have sponsorships from some very well known companies any one of which would be impressive by itself. The community is really coming together. If Hal Bond says that they have the money, they have the money.

I see no reason to mistrust that. In the original bid no specific sponsors names were mentioned that is why I assumed that the sponsorship was still being sought. I think it is great that they have an amazing amount of sponsors to guarantee a large prize fund. Personally, I would still prefer the Surrey bid due to hotel availability/cost and the fact that I would like to see Vancouver receive a Canadian Open sooner rather than later. However, if that happens I hope the Guelph tournament can still happen in 2026, or if Guelph wins the bid for 2025 a Vancouver event is still possible in 2026!

[Michael Barron]

Thank you, Vlad!

Hopefully, the executive will approve 2024 Canadian Closed and Canadian Women Closed bids and announce the events officially soon...

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I will be supporting the JtM/Van City bid because I said I would long before the other two bids materialized. It is a good bid. If any of the bids were only bids, I would be happy to support them. It is amazing that we have three bids in one year that are so good.

[Alina Calota]

I will be supporting the JtM/Van City bid because I said I would long before the other two bids materialized. It is a good bid. If any of the bids were only bids, I would be happy to support them. It is amazing that we have three bids in one year that are so good.


Where is the link where we can vote? Thank you.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Where is the link where we can vote? Thank you.

It should be open later tonight.

[Lyle Craver]

That may have been because on the very same dates BC hosted the "2004 Western Canadian Open", the only time this championship appears in the database back to ~1996. Seems there was a lot of unpleasantness around this whole affair from (over?)application of rules to reject bids to protest events. I'm reminded of the difficult job our executive does for us especially in "lose-lose" situations with consequences that are unintended.

There was indeed a fair bit of 'bad blood' in BC concerning Kapuskasing getting a second back to back. This bad blood would NOT have been present had it been pretty much any location in southern Ontario that had decent connections to Toronto. As it was the then BCCF president felt an isolated Ontario location excluded anyone from BC or AB and in the event no one from SK or MB played Kapuskasing 2005 either. (Note: I was on the BCCF executive in 2005 BUT played no part in the event's organization. I turned up to watch the event and to visit the bookseller.) To put it bluntly Kapuskasing was not nor is now remotely as accessible as opposed to the Macdonald Block in Toronto or similar very central site.

[Michael Lo]

I have updated the Proposal Summary spreadsheet with the following changes:

1) Penny Club - Accommodation
Accommodation (lowest rate excl. tax per night): Onsite $246, Offsite at SFU $65

2) Guelph - Transportation from/to Primary Airport
Transportation by Car from/to Primary Airport: YYZ -52 mins, YKF - 26 mins
Public Transportation from/to Primary Airport: YYZ -2 hrs 16 mins, YKF - 1hr 59mins

3) Guelph - Skittles Room
Skittles 1 - At Quebec Street Mall (size not specified)

4) Guelph - COCC Prize Money
COCC Total Prize Money - 100% Entry Fee Guaranteed (Est. $60000+)

Spreadsheet Link - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VWmr0xKdhesE_9FxLCdGYJHtHhfe8NelBgr7eeXVMCs/edit?usp=sharing

All three are excellent proposals. My preference goes to the two BC bids, same reason with many others - BC didn’t host it for more than 10 years.

The Penny club's updated onsite room rate per night at $246 and an offsite exceptional rate of $65 is a game changer. It narrowed the onsite room rate difference down to $56 per night. The Burnaby venue is more central and more convenient for players to tour around Grater Vancouver after their games.The $65 SFU room would be an excellent choice for budget players that wants a private room, 3 to 4 players can carpool a cab or uber, sharing a rental car is also an idea. With just a 20 minutes trip, and the total cost would be substantially lower than any of the room rates posted.

I expect the 2025 CYCC/COCC to have 500-600 players. The Surrey venue is a bit stretched on space, with a maximum capacity of 500 players including using the lobby as an overflow playing area. The Barnaby venue has a maximum capacity of 600 players and should be able accommodate all of the players that wants to attend CYCC & COCC.

I lean towards Penny Club's bid mainly due to the larger venue capacity and more centralize location,

Cheers,

Michael Lo

[Tyler Sanderson]

The CYCC could indeed potentially be very large in 2025. I would like to note we (Surrey, BC) can easily secure more overflow space if needed to accommodate just as many players (600) as the other bids.

[Don Hack]

Wrong forum, bad timing, but I'll ask the question.

With such great bids, *if* there were to be another large national tournament (i.e., two annually), is there a history of such and previous season it was held?

[ian findlay]

Great to see 3 great bids. I remember some years when we barely had 1 bid! One small question for Vancity and sorry if it is nitpicking, but the definition of volunteer is 'a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.'
So why do we have amounts of $3000 and $4000 besides volunteer. I am sure there is a simple explanation. I am favouring this bid, so please do not take this as a criticism but more to clarify.

[Victoria Doknjas]

Great to see 3 great bids. I remember some years when we barely had 1 bid! One small question for Vancity and sorry if it is nitpicking, but the definition of volunteer is 'a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.'
So why do we have amounts of $3000 and $4000 besides volunteer. I am sure there is a simple explanation. I am favouring this bid, so please do not take this as a criticism but more to clarify.

Thank you Ian for your question and taking the time to review our Surrey, BC bid by Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy. The Volunteer amounts listed in our bid are for food and other expenses like souvenir 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC shirts, etc. We feel that it's essential to acknowledge the important hard work that our Volunteers will provide.

We appreciate your support and vote, Ian!

[Jeremy Clark]

note: I edited this to reflect updated math, as I think I missed 2,000 sq feet.

Having looked at the Vancity bid, the spaces given, and estimated attendances are a bit concerning, for the CYCC in particular. If I'm recalling correctly, guidelines call for 20 sq ft/player for kids. The space listed in the bid, including the 2000 sq ft for the lobby and the additional 2100 sq ft for the CYCC, bring it to 18.8 at 500 players, nearly but not quite to 20. But the bid also says "we can expect over 500 juniors to participate in the 2025 CYCC. In total, we will comfortably be able to accommodate 500 players (more with a tighter floor plan)." At 600 participants, the space drops to just over 15 sq feet per participant. At a certain point, the space available really doesn't lend itself to an event of this size and importance.

[Murray Chu]

note: I edited this to reflect updated math, as I think I missed 2,000 sq feet.

Having looked at the Vancity bid, the spaces given, and estimated attendances are a bit concerning, for the CYCC in particular. If I'm recalling correctly, guidelines call for 20 sq ft/player for kids. The space listed in the bid, including the 2000 sq ft for the lobby and the additional 2100 sq ft for the CYCC, bring it to 18.8 at 500 players, nearly but not quite to 20. But the bid also says "we can expect over 500 juniors to participate in the 2025 CYCC. In total, we will comfortably be able to accommodate 500 players (more with a tighter floor plan)." At 600 participants, the space drops to just over 15 sq feet per participant. At a certain point, the space available really doesn't lend itself to an event of this size and importance.

Hi Jeremy,

As Tyler mentioned above, our venue is quite flexible and we can easily open another room to accommodate more players if registration exceeds expectations.

[Jeremy Clark]

Hi Jeremy,

As Tyler mentioned above, our venue is quite flexible and we can easily open another room to accommodate more players if registration exceeds expectations.

For whatever reason, I wasn't seeing the posts on this page when I read through, despite the fact that they predate my comment. Presumably user error on my part. Thanks for the clarification.

[Fred McKim]

The Guelph Bid was not a late bid, as there are no specific CFC procedures about bid timing -- in any event, I can't see that they prepared their bid once they had a look at the other bids. This is not a strict business deal, where that sort of thing would be unethical.

As other have pointed out any of the 3 bids would be great. Based on recent timing, I'm in favour of a B.C. bid, and I'm an admirer of the great work that's been done by Juniors to Masters, so I am planning to vote for them.

Further to that I would like to see that we get the R/UP (ONM if BC wins 2025 or BC if ON wins 2025) the 2026 event. Presumably that is something the Executive can work on in the weeks after the AGM.

Fred

[Michael Lo]

The Guelph Bid was not a late bid, as there are no specific CFC procedures about bid timing -- in any event, I can't see that they prepared their bid once they had a look at the other bids. This is not a strict business deal, where that sort of thing would be unethical.


Accepting proposal(s) after other proposals went public is unfair, it is unethical if it is intentional. It does not matter whether the information in the publicized proposals are being used as an advantage or not. It also does not matter whether it is a "strict business deal" or not. It is simply not fair.

A bidding procedure without a bid submission deadline is faulty and should be fixed. As simple as have a rule that all proposals to be discussed in the AGM must be submitted 3 days before the AGM starts.

Michael

[Aris Marghetis]

Accepting proposal(s) after other proposals went public is unfair, it is unethical if it is intentional. It does not matter whether the information in the publicized proposals are being used as an advantage or not. It also does not matter whether it is a "strict business deal" or not. It is simply not fair.

A bidding procedure without a bid submission deadline is faulty and should be fixed. As simple as have a rule that all proposals to be discussed in the AGM must be submitted 3 days before the AGM starts.

Michael

I generally agree with Michael here. Whereas I am not completely clear on our current bidding process, we had two bids that were publicly visible before another bid was submitted. I am not in any way implying there was any wrongdoing by anyone involved. However, like Michael, I found this turn of events was not proper.

[Michael Lo]

I have high regards for the Guelph proposal organizers and totally trust their integrity. I just would like to point out that the current bidding procedure is faulty and should be fixed.

Michael

[Aris Marghetis]

I have high regards for the Guelph proposal organizers and totally trust their integrity. I just would like to point out that the current bidding procedure is faulty and should be fixed.

Michael

Yes, we agree.

[Don Hack]

If there is sufficient agreement that the bid structure needs some work, what is the process to make it happen?

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Accepting proposal(s) after other proposals went public is unfair, it is unethical if it is intentional. It does not matter whether the information in the publicized proposals are being used as an advantage or not. It also does not matter whether it is a "strict business deal" or not. It is simply not fair.

A bidding procedure without a bid submission deadline is faulty and should be fixed. As simple as have a rule that all proposals to be discussed in the AGM must be submitted 3 days before the AGM starts.

Michael

The bid submission deadline under the old handbook for the 2025 CYCC/CO is any time during the AGM in 2024. Realistically the only bids that could do anything with data from another bid are the two Vancouver area bids since they are playing in the same pond and competing against each other for the same class of voting members which are those who would like to see the 2025 tournament in the Vancouver area. They were released simultaneously. In their final form most bids look very similar because they are often put together with the help of the tourism bureaus.

It is unusual to have multiple bids. Usually there is one bid.

[Michael Lo]

All bids are competing with each other, not just the two Vancouver bids.

If we agree that there is an issue, in order to avoid it in the future, why don't we fix it.

[Olga Mushtaler]

Thanks for putting all the work in all the bids. Hotel and sports arena sound like wonderful venues. And I'm sure the organizers are going to do a wonderful job whoever gets selected.

Just for everyone's reference, I did some math counting kids from all provinces from the last CYCC in Calgary. Here it is:

Girls:
ON - 44
BC - 16
AB - 12

Boys (Open):
ON - 171
BC - 99
AB - 65

Have a wonderful day!

[Lyle Craver]

Is that the entire count? I can't imagine that a Calgary event couldn't draw anyone from SK or MB though no question those are our 3 largest affiliated federations.

[Diana Tsypina]

Hello Lyle,

In the now-closed thread titled "1. Agenda and Opening Comments of Chair", the "RESULTS OF VOTING" post
https://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?6180-1-Agenda-and-Opening-Comments-of-Chair&p=45823#post45823
has an unfortunate typo.



RESULTS OF VOTING

For the 2025 CYCC and Canadian Open:

Surrey BC Van City Juniors to Masters (26) Alina Calota Brandon Zhu Christina Tao David Ludwig Diana Tsypina Don Hack Don Parakin Fred McKim ian findlay Jason Manley Lyle Craver Marc Moisan Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Murray Chu Paul Leblanc Richard Bowes Ryan Leong Sean Wu Tyler Sanderson Umang Banatwala Victor Plotkin Victor Zheng Victoria Doknjas Vlad Rekhson Vladimir Drkulec

Surrey BC Van City Juniors to Masters(9) et al Anthony Boron Brian Clarke Egidijus Zeromskis Frank Lee Jeremy Clark Mahmud Hassain Olga Mushtaler Patrick McDonald Vladimir Semyonov

Burnaby BC Penny Chess Club: (3) Aris Marghetis Michael Lo pennypham

Abtain (2): Roger Langen Victor Itkin

Total Votes Cast: 40


The second option - the one that received nine votes - should read "Guelph, ON".

[Victoria Doknjas]

Thank you CFC President Vlad Drkulec, CFC Executives, and CFC Voting Members!

It is gratifying to see so many of the CFC Voting Members representing the many different provinces across Canada having the confidence in our Organizing Team of Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy (JtM) by awarding us the Canadian Open and CYCC to host in Surrey, BC in 2025.

Big thank yous to Vlad Rekhson, Vlad Drkulec, Fred McKim, and Ian Findlay for their public endorsements of our Surrey, BC bid. I have previously worked with and/or attended their events in the past, and their successful events will be good reference points for our team as we move forward to making the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC memorable events.

I also want to thank the many other CFC Voting Members who reached out privately to root for us, letting us know that they are supporting our Surrey, BC bid. Thank you, your encouragement and support mean a great deal to us. Similarly, to the Canadian Chess Community at large who expressed their congratulations and support – thank you!

Also, sincere appreciation to Hal Bond who was so kind, and congratulated our Team today. You are a class act, Mr. Hal Bond!

And finally, I want to acknowledge our AMAZING Organizing Team of Tyler Sanderson, GM Gergely Szabo, Murray Chu, Mats Sanderson, and Paul Leblanc -- they are simply the BEST to work with! And, hey Team, guess what? The CFC Executives and CFC Voting Members just awarded us 100s upon 100s of additional hours of chess organization work! Looking forward to working more with this OUTSTANDING crew on the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC in Surrey, BC.

Best Regards,

Victoria Doknjas
Co-Chair - Organizing Committee on behalf of:
Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy, Hosts of the 2025 Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) in Surrey, BC.

[Aris Marghetis]

Thank you CFC President Vlad Drkulec, CFC Executives, and CFC Voting Members!

It is gratifying to see so many of the CFC Voting Members representing the many different provinces across Canada having the confidence in our Organizing Team of Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy (JtM) by awarding us the Canadian Open and CYCC to host in Surrey, BC in 2025.

Big thank yous to Vlad Rekhson, Vlad Drkulec, Fred McKim, and Ian Findlay for their public endorsements of our Surrey, BC bid. I have previously worked with and/or attended their events in the past, and their successful events will be good reference points for our team as we move forward to making the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC memorable events.

I also want to thank the many other CFC Voting Members who reached out privately to root for us, letting us know that they are supporting our Surrey, BC bid. Thank you, your encouragement and support mean a great deal to us. Similarly, to the Canadian Chess Community at large who expressed their congratulations and support – thank you!

Also, sincere appreciation to Hal Bond who was so kind, and congratulated our Team today. You are a class act, Mr. Hal Bond!

And finally, I want to acknowledge our AMAZING Organizing Team of Tyler Sanderson, GM Gergely Szabo, Murray Chu, Mats Sanderson, and Paul Leblanc -- they are simply the BEST to work with! And, hey Team, guess what? The CFC Executives and CFC Voting Members just awarded us 100s upon 100s of additional hours of chess organization work! Looking forward to working more with this OUTSTANDING crew on the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC in Surrey, BC.

Best Regards,

Victoria Doknjas
Co-Chair - Organizing Committee on behalf of:
Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy, Hosts of the 2025 Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) in Surrey, BC.

Thank you for a wonderful post Victoria!

[Fred McKim]

Is that the entire count? I can't imagine that a Calgary event couldn't draw anyone from SK or MB though no question those are our 3 largest affiliated federations.

I know there were players from NS there, so I presume the 3 highest province count.

[Mahmud Hassain]

Thank you CFC President Vlad Drkulec, CFC Executives, and CFC Voting Members!

It is gratifying to see so many of the CFC Voting Members representing the many different provinces across Canada having the confidence in our Organizing Team of Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy (JtM) by awarding us the Canadian Open and CYCC to host in Surrey, BC in 2025.

Big thank yous to Vlad Rekhson, Vlad Drkulec, Fred McKim, and Ian Findlay for their public endorsements of our Surrey, BC bid. I have previously worked with and/or attended their events in the past, and their successful events will be good reference points for our team as we move forward to making the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC memorable events.

I also want to thank the many other CFC Voting Members who reached out privately to root for us, letting us know that they are supporting our Surrey, BC bid. Thank you, your encouragement and support mean a great deal to us. Similarly, to the Canadian Chess Community at large who expressed their congratulations and support – thank you!

Also, sincere appreciation to Hal Bond who was so kind, and congratulated our Team today. You are a class act, Mr. Hal Bond!

And finally, I want to acknowledge our AMAZING Organizing Team of Tyler Sanderson, GM Gergely Szabo, Murray Chu, Mats Sanderson, and Paul Leblanc -- they are simply the BEST to work with! And, hey Team, guess what? The CFC Executives and CFC Voting Members just awarded us 100s upon 100s of additional hours of chess organization work! Looking forward to working more with this OUTSTANDING crew on the 2025 Canadian Open and CYCC in Surrey, BC.

Best Regards,

Victoria Doknjas
Co-Chair - Organizing Committee on behalf of:
Vancity Chess and Juniors to Masters Chess Academy, Hosts of the 2025 Canadian Open and Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) in Surrey, BC.

Victoria,
Thank you for this elegant and wonderful post.

In President Drkulec's defense, I have not seen on this forum a public endorsement from him. You will agree that the president's public endorsement would have made it not fair.
In this vote, it was very fair! Congratulations on a very well presented and well deserved bid.
We are very excited for the Vancouver 2025. I plan to play there.

Meanwhile, we kindly ask and welcome the voting members for any feedback you may have. For that, I am providing my email in confidence.
mahassain01 AT gmail DOT com

Thank you
Mahmud

[Mahmud Hassain]

I have high regards for the Guelph proposal organizers and totally trust their integrity. I just would like to point out that the current bidding procedure is faulty and should be fixed.

Michael

Michael,

Thank you for your trust in our integrity. We, too, trust the integrity and well-intentioned bids from BC.

On the procedures matter, you may have a point here (optics matter). I am all for fairness and transparency.
From my experience of over 35 years in various board governance, I would recommend that future bids be summitted, in confidence, to the secretary by a preapproved deadline. The secretary must keep in secret till the deadline and posting and the bids may not be amended after posting.

I am a fiercely Canadian and I am of the view that all parts of Canada are collectively ours. We are all winners!

Sincerely,
Mahmud

[Aris Marghetis]

Michael,

Thank you for your trust in our integrity. We, too, trust the integrity and well-intentioned bids from BC.

On the procedures matter, you may have a point here (optics matter). I am all for fairness and transparency.
From my experience of over 35 years in various board governance, I would recommend that future bids be summitted, in confidence, to the secretary by a preapproved deadline. The secretary must keep in secret till the deadline and posting and the bids may not be amended after posting.

I am a fiercely Canadian and I am of the view that all parts of Canada are collectively ours. We are all winners!

Sincerely,
Mahmud

Excellent ideas Mahmud! I agree they really should be implemented.

(if we don't, we risk having an awful "bad" bidding process some year)

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Excellent ideas Mahmud! I agree they really should be implemented.

(if we don't, we risk having an awful "bad" bidding process some year)

The point of the bidding process is to generate at least one good bid each and every year. It is an interactive process. Both Surrey and Burnaby bids submitted twice after suggestions from me. The Burnaby bid would have been rejected if they had not made at least one of the changes that I suggested. I could see from the financial statements that they implied that they were making the required payments to the youth fund but they never said so explicitly. If we follow the type of blind process suggested earlier then there would be no chance to improve the bids as new information came in. Guelph would not have been accepted as late.

Really in a perfect world the bid deadline should be at least a month before the AGM so that the bids can be sent to the voting members ahead of time for study. In that perfect world we would also have the financial statements to send the voting member at the same time. The initial bid proposals and financial statements should come in at least two weeks before that so that they can be vetted by the executive.

I endorsed all three bids as excellent bids. I also explained how I would be voting because of a promise I made when there was only one bid on the table. I did this because of questions about my statements clarifying aspects of the Guelph bid as somehow favouring and endorsing the Guelph bid. I would have been very comfortable with any of the three bids if they had won. They were all good bids. I liked all three bids.