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View Full Version : 5.1 - Discussion Items - COVID and Chess



Lyle Craver
12-12-2020, 03:36 AM
All across the country the pandemic has heavily affected tournament chess. This thread is reserved for coverage of how chess activities have taken place and sharing info on what has worked in your area

Vladimir Drkulec
12-13-2020, 02:02 AM
I would also like this discussion to focus on the path forward for the next year or two which until vaccines become widely available will largely be focused on online chess.

Les Bunning
12-13-2020, 01:32 PM
We will have to wait and see how the future unfolds to see how this issue will be determined . I suggest discussion be deferred to the annual meeting in JULY/AUGUST.
Les Bunning

Lyle Craver
12-13-2020, 06:18 PM
Perhaps - but I'm also involved in other organizations who obviously have also been impacted by this and the two main themes I'm hearing are "service to members" and "membership retention". Perceived value in what we do is crucial and with so much online these days like the pay and free servers, The Week in Chess and other online journals and of course Youtube (where I see the Botez sisters have been extremely active - amongst others) it's important we do a good job at meeting members needs.

Now to be sure we represent a specific "brand" of chess - the over the board competition and that will be problematic for some time yet. I don't pretend to have all the answers but for sure "perceived value of membership" is crucial for us in 2021.

Lloyd Lombard
12-13-2020, 08:44 PM
I would also like this discussion to focus on the path forward for the next year or two which until vaccines become widely available will largely be focused on online chess.

I posted the idea of the CFC creating its own chess playing platform in one of the other topics. I realize there's likely a hefty cost in setting it up but again, in business, the best widget wins. Obviously, Chess.com and LiChess have huge memberships and are making money. It may well be a course that the CFC may want to consider in combination with over-the-board chess.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-13-2020, 11:25 PM
Perhaps - but I'm also involved in other organizations who obviously have also been impacted by this and the two main themes I'm hearing are "service to members" and "membership retention". Perceived value in what we do is crucial and with so much online these days like the pay and free servers, The Week in Chess and other online journals and of course Youtube (where I see the Botez sisters have been extremely active - amongst others) it's important we do a good job at meeting members needs.

Now to be sure we represent a specific "brand" of chess - the over the board competition and that will be problematic for some time yet. I don't pretend to have all the answers but for sure "perceived value of membership" is crucial for us in 2021.

Actually we represent chess. We also represent the only path to international competition through FIDE. We have to extend our reach into online chess but there are problems with cheating and the platforms charges of cheating which may at times be spurious.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-13-2020, 11:33 PM
I posted the idea of the CFC creating its own chess playing platform in one of the other topics. I realize there's likely a hefty cost in setting it up but again, in business, the best widget wins. Obviously, Chess.com and LiChess have huge memberships and are making money. It may well be a course that the CFC may want to consider in combination with over-the-board chess.

I couldn't even get someone to act as an administrator for an established server. We could set up a very limited server but you would not get enough of a critical mass to make it viable. The best widget does not always win and in fact, usually loses. The widget with the best marketing team usually wins. Betamax was better than VHS. VHS won because of market share only to be overrun by DVD's which in turn were wiped out by online services like Netflix.

Fred McKim
12-14-2020, 10:00 PM
I posted the idea of the CFC creating its own chess playing platform in one of the other topics. I realize there's likely a hefty cost in setting it up but again, in business, the best widget wins. Obviously, Chess.com and LiChess have huge memberships and are making money. It may well be a course that the CFC may want to consider in combination with over-the-board chess.

Chess.com / Lichess.org make very little money off of people who just want to come and play chess. Money is made from teaching and viewing GM play.

Pierre Dénommée
12-14-2020, 11:14 PM
Does the CFC has the ability to use tornelo free of charge?

Aris Marghetis
12-14-2020, 11:21 PM
Does the CFC has the ability to use tornelo free of charge?

If the CFC is interested in Tornelo, I can connect, get info, etc. Lemme know what we're looking for.

And/or identify a CFC prime to continue such a conversation.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2020, 12:26 AM
Does the CFC has the ability to use tornelo free of charge?

We have been using tornelo free of charge though I am not versed in who tornelo is aside from the fact that it was the platform used for a few of the recent FIDE tournaments.

So far we have seen tournaments on chess.com, chesskid.com, playchess.com, tornelo and lichess. Tornelo generated the fewest complaints.

Aris Marghetis
12-15-2020, 12:50 PM
We have been using tornelo free of charge though I am not versed in who tornelo is aside from the fact that it was the platform used for a few of the recent FIDE tournaments.

So far we have seen tournaments on chess.com, chesskid.com, playchess.com, tornelo and lichess. Tornelo generated the fewest complaints.

I reached out to Tornelo during this meeting, lemme know if you want something.

Pierre Dénommée
12-15-2020, 12:51 PM
If a Zonal ever need to be organized online, using a platform approved by FIDE would be a big plus.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2020, 01:23 PM
If the CFC is interested in Tornelo, I can connect, get info, etc. Lemme know what we're looking for.

And/or identify a CFC prime to continue such a conversation.

We are interested in Tornelo. We are also interested in FIDE's efforts to stem online cheating and procedures for evaluating allegations of cheating. I know that FIDE is working on this. People need to know that there is no opportunity to rig the system before we can really embrace online CFC play.

Aris Marghetis
12-15-2020, 02:09 PM
We are interested in Tornelo. We are also interested in FIDE's efforts to stem online cheating and procedures for evaluating allegations of cheating. I know that FIDE is working on this. People need to know that there is no opportunity to rig the system before we can really embrace online CFC play.

So my observations while working online across much of the Western hemisphere is that different jurisdictions are deriving different Fair Play approaches. I was asked about that recently at ChessTech2020, and I tried to make the point that ANY of these approaches could be improved if that group took advantage of the strengths of their competitors' approaches. No one seemed to really bite on that point. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there is no "best" anti-cheating platform, that each one has relative strengths vs. others'. The other thing is, the longer the time control, then the vastly more challenging anti-cheating becomes.

Unless there's appetite for REALLY heavy-duty anti-cheating for online chess, I regrettably don't know whether we can ever reasonably guarantee Fair Play online.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2020, 03:04 PM
So my observations while working online across much of the Western hemisphere is that different jurisdictions are deriving different Fair Play approaches. I was asked about that recently at ChessTech2020, and I tried to make the point that ANY of these approaches could be improved if that group took advantage of the strengths of their competitors' approaches. No one seemed to really bite on that point. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that there is no "best" anti-cheating platform, that each one has relative strengths vs. others'. The other thing is, the longer the time control, then the vastly more challenging anti-cheating becomes.

Unless there's appetite for REALLY heavy-duty anti-cheating for online chess, I regrettably don't know whether we can ever reasonably guarantee Fair Play online.

I think most cheating will be caught after the fact using AI but I think the current methods and practices leave something to be desired. There are false positives whether the online platforms wish to admit it or not.

Pierre Dénommée
12-15-2020, 03:51 PM
Unless there's appetite for REALLY heavy-duty anti-cheating for online chess, I regrettably don't know whether we can ever reasonably guarantee Fair Play online.

GM Gilles Mirallès, Technical Director of the Francophone Chess Association, has the same opinion about Fair Play online. To prove his point, during a Board meeting on zoom, he made his telephone appears in the field of the camera, proving how easy it would be to conceal it during a tournament.

Aris Marghetis
12-15-2020, 04:03 PM
I think most cheating will be caught after the fact using AI but I think the current methods and practices leave something to be desired. There are false positives whether the online platforms wish to admit it or not.

The false positives, and so many false accusations, are so bloody disheartening.

Michael Lo
12-16-2020, 02:14 PM
What are the plans for the 2021 Canadian Junior Chess Championship (CJCC) and the Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC). For provinces that have qualifying tournaments for the mentioned national tournaments, the qualifying tournament has to finish at least 2 months before the national event for players to arrange for traveling. To organize a sizable qualifying tournament, it has to start organizing (e.g. book venue, etc.) at least 3-4 months ahead, if not longer. That is in total, we need to start organizing at least 5-6 months before the national event. At the moment, with the closeups and gathering restriction, it is unlikely any OTB qualifying tournament can happen in time. Please advise.

Stephen Wright
12-16-2020, 02:30 PM
There are various introductions to Tornelo on youtube, the one they prepared for the European Chess Union is pretty comprehensive.


We have been using tornelo free of charge though I am not versed in who tornelo is aside from the fact that it was the platform used for a few of the recent FIDE tournaments.

So far we have seen tournaments on chess.com, chesskid.com, playchess.com, tornelo and lichess. Tornelo generated the fewest complaints.

There is also a two hour-plus video on Tornelo's fair play philosophy and methods. Basically various measurements are provided to the arbiter but it is up to the arbiter to interpret and act on these reports, the platform itself does not run automated algorithms which ban players. This is likely why they have had the fewest complaints.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2020, 02:40 PM
What are the plans for the 2021 Canadian Junior Chess Championship (CJCC) and the Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC). For provinces that have qualifying tournaments for the mentioned national tournaments, the qualifying tournament has to finish at least 2 months before the national event for players to arrange for traveling. To organize a sizable qualifying tournament, it has to start organizing (e.g. book venue, etc.) at least 3-4 months ahead, if not longer. That is in total, we need to start organizing at least 5-6 months before the national event. At the moment, with the closeups and gathering restriction, it is unlikely any OTB qualifying tournament can happen in time. Please advise.

The situation should be better defined in about three months as people start to get vaccinated. Currently in Ontario Windsor and areas around Toronto (Toronto, Peel and York) are in lockdown which is the strictest condition. I hope that we can be back to normal by the summer at least in terms of youth chess. I am skeptical that international play can return to normal on that timeline because the pandemic would have to be over almost everywhere to allow that.

I think that we will have to relax conditions for requiring YCC's this year unless the situation has drastically improved by March which does not seem likely with the slow rollout of vaccines in Canada that I am expecting based on news reports. I think we can look at holding online YCCs. Perhaps the CFC may even organize some of them.

ian findlay
12-16-2020, 03:43 PM
In Alberta we have scheduled our first OTB tournament in early June. This may be a bit optimistic, since I do not think the province will be completely vaccinated until the end of August. We have cancelled many events for 2021, but the important events, like the Alberta closed for example, we have moved to the end of October. We are holding the AB Junior online December 20th, 2020. So far there are over 70 entries, which was more than expected. We hold it on Lichess, with a reduced entry fee of $10 and require participants to sign in via a Zoom Meeting. The ACA has bought a 'Pro' Zoom account, which allows up to 100 people to attend a meeting. The participants must comply with Lichess 'anti-cheating' policies, and also the winners games will be monitored for cheating. The organizer and myself have had emails with Dr. Ken Reagan, who might be the world's foremost authority on cheating, and he graciously explained the techniques he uses for detecting cheating. Our 2021 schedule can be seen on our website on www.albertachess.org

Michael Lo
12-16-2020, 10:06 PM
Vlad, thanks for the explanation.

Ian, thanks for sharing the ACA info.