8D POLICY DISCUSSION Olympiad Qualification

[Vladimir Drkulec]

8D Olympiad Qualification - Should we increase the minimum number of games to qualify? Some have suggested that 40 games over the past two years with the proviso that they be CFC, FIDE or USCF rated play would not be an unreasonable requirement. The reason that we might consider USCF play is that many of our top young players are going to post-secondary schools in the U.S. making it difficult to get in the requisite number of CFC games.

[David Gordon]

I am in favour of both increasing the requirement for number of games and am ok with them being any slow CFC, USCF, FIDE, or any other equivalent tournament games against reasonable opposition.
I am unsure how much the increase should be.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I am in favour of both increasing the requirement for number of games and am ok with them being any slow CFC, USCF, FIDE, or any other equivalent tournament games against reasonable opposition.
I am unsure how much the increase should be.

Currently the regulations require 10 games in the year of the Olympiad which can typically be accomplished with two weekend tournaments. The consequence is that you might have some rusty players representing Canada. This has not been an issue with the national team but can be an issue with the women's team. The consequence of changing this rule would be a younger team representing Canada.

[Halldor P. Palsson]

I think this is a question we should ask the Master Rep to report back to us on after consulting with top 10-players of both sexes.

For the men over 2400, as an example, a serious tournament might be a 9-round open swiss. Somebody that plays 10 games a year in tournaments is simply inactive in my opinion.

What is a reasonable minimum number of games that an active chess player aspiring to the national team or the women's team plays in a year?

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I think this is a question we should ask the Master Rep to report back to us on after consulting with top 10-players of both sexes.

For the men over 2400, as an example, a serious tournament might be a 9-round open swiss. Somebody that plays 10 games a year in tournaments is simply inactive in my opinion.

What is a reasonable minimum number of games that an active chess player aspiring to the national team or the women's team plays in a year?

Most of the grandmasters who I have read that expressed an opinion said somewhere between 50 and 80 games.

[Bindi Cheng]

As a somewhat competent player, I also agree with raising the minimum number of games required to be on the Olympiad team. I enjoyed seeing many of my friends and competitors representing the Men's Olympiad this year and felt that everyone on the team fully deserved their spot as they are have all far exceeded the minimum when it comes to game requirements and playing ability. On the women's side however, I feel that the selection process we have puts too much stock on past performance and ratings rather than activity and definitely believe that a higher number of minimum games should be mandatory. Players who play the basic minimum of 10 games a year (as currently is the standard) should not even be considered as that is far too few games and if we field a team with too many rusty players, it would be akin to sending a bunch of chess tourists rather than a team of competitors.

Even though the Men's team did not finish as high a standing as some may have envisioned, I was very impressed with their play and the fact that they faced off against many of the top players in the world and would check in daily to view their games and results. I can honestly say that I did not do the same for the Women's side.

[Vlad Rekhson]

I like the idea in of increasing the amount of minimum required games in general, but I think that the minimum amount of games should remain the same (or even be dropped) for the players selected by a committee, that way if a top Canadian GM who hasn't been playing for a while decides to return to represent the country in the Olympiad he would at least be considered for the team.

[Paul Leblanc]

I am in favour of increasing the minimum number of games and I would also like to see a requirement to play at least 10 CFC rated games.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I am in favour of increasing the minimum number of games and I would also like to see a requirement to play at least 10 CFC rated games.

That requirement might preclude our strongest young woman Yuanling Yuan from playing. I don't think you should penalize players who are going on to higher education from participating in the case where they are still participating in games against strong players.

[Lyle Craver]

Just curious - how many of our top players are currently studying out of country and would benefit by the other than CFC proviso?

(I really appreciated Bindi's comments and echo what he said about the Olympiad - I remember flipping back and forth between windows while at work watching one game (Kovylev I think) which ended up as a loss but which I thought was a really well played endgame. Kudoes to the organizers for getting all that stuff online)

[Garland Best]

One issue I have is even with the low requirements in place now, a large fraction of top women players did not attempt to reach the requirement. Will this encourage these same players to play, or further discourage them from playing?

PS: FQE rated games need to be included in the requirements.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Just curious - how many of our top players are currently studying out of country and would benefit by the other than CFC proviso?


Anton Kovalyov, Raja Panjwani, Yuanling Yuan and possibly Alexandra Botez would be players who might benefit from this rule at present. There are probably several others that I don't know about.

[Félix Dumont]

Given that we have more and more promising young girls playing, I would support raising the number of games. However, I agree with Garland that we need to include FQE rated games. Maïli-Jade Ouellet is now Quebec highest rated female player, with a FQE rating of 2001. She is extremely active (100+ FQE game per year), but out of these maybe only 20 are CFC rated.

If changes are made to include FQE rated games, I will support the motion.

[Vlad Rekhson]

This is not exactly on topic but a strong woman recently moved to Edmonton from Poland. I am not sure whether she would change federations but she could certainly be a part of team Canada if she would want to.
https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1114581

[Paul Leblanc]

I have no problem including FQE games. I just feel, since this topic is open for discussion that our strong players need to support our Canadian tournaments. As for people pursuing higher education, I don't see that as an obstacle to playing in a couple of Canadian tournaments over a one year period.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Given that we have more and more promising young girls playing, I would support raising the number of games. However, I agree with Garland that we need to include FQE rated games. Maïli-Jade Ouellet is now Quebec highest rated female player, with a FQE rating of 2001. She is extremely active (100+ FQE game per year), but out of these maybe only 20 are CFC rated.

If changes are made to include FQE rated games, I will support the motion.

Its only a discussion at the moment but including FQE rated games is quite reasonable since we are supposed to be treating FQE members as equivalent to CFC members. When it does become a motion FQE ratings should be included though perhaps there should be some conversion built in. My understanding is that FQE ratings are slightly deflated relative to CFC ratings.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

This is not exactly on topic but a strong woman recently moved to Edmonton from Poland. I am not sure whether she would change federations but she could certainly be a part of team Canada if she would want to.
https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1114581

She could be part of Team Canada if she changed federations though it might be quite expensive for a titled player.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Its only a discussion at the moment but including FQE rated games is quite reasonable since we are supposed to be treating FQE members as equivalent to CFC members. When it does become a motion FQE ratings should be included though perhaps there should be some conversion built in. My understanding is that FQE ratings are slightly deflated relative to CFC ratings.

imho, the count of games can be included as a measure of activity, though the CFC and FIDE ratings shall be major. Don't forget someone needs to track all this information.
As an option the CFC could rate through the CFC rating system those (USCF, FQE) games on own expense for ~10 or 15 candidate players.

[Lyle Craver]

Does the FQE have some kind of equivalent to the 'tdlist' or is there some method of quickly sharing info?

As for gender you would have to have some kind of way of indicating this otherwise you would end up in the situation where FIDE thought Lynn Stringer was male and I was female. (I didn't say anything for years as it was amusing till I finally got tired of it and asked Hal to register my "sex change" - during most of this period FIDE did have the photo of me that's on the CFC board page which I'd like to think is unmistakably male!)

[Félix Dumont]

Yes, there is one on this page : http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?4057-8D-POLICY-DISCUSSION-Olympiad-Qualification/page2
Direct link to the list: http://www.fqechecs.qc.ca/cms/cotes/bulletin/elec/t/wl1
It doesn't show the number of games per year, but it wouldn't be long to look it up for the 2-3 players that could qualify for the Olympiads.

[Fred McKim]

Yes, there is one on this page : http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?4057-8D-POLICY-DISCUSSION-Olympiad-Qualification/page2
Direct link to the list: http://www.fqechecs.qc.ca/cms/cotes/bulletin/elec/t/wl1
It doesn't show the number of games per year, but it wouldn't be long to look it up for the 2-3 players that could qualify for the Olympiads.

There is going to be a huge conversion effort to calculate the selection rating - if one includes the FQE rating and / or USCF rating.

However, the idea of using many more games with those other two systems is good.

[Lee Hendon]

I would also like to see the minimum games increased to 40 (with maybe 10 of those being CFC rated) also we could make an acceptation for those who are studying or norm hunting aboard My thought being that playing activity and current form is a more critically important factor (With those games being rated by FIDE or (nationally rated of course with conversion of the rating) by a recognizable zone or country of FIDE)

[Lloyd Lombard]

It seems to me that we're the "Chess Federation of Canada" for a reason. In my view, Canada's representative should have to play "X" amount of games under the Canadian banner (CFC rated games). Games in USA or other countries should not be counted for purposes of qualification simply on the basis of the difficulty in confirming the games (especially when they've been played close to the upcoming tournament). Those outside Canada games can obviously make great practice for the player. If the player wants to qualify, then they should play their qualifying games in Canada. I would suggest somewhere between 20 and 40 Canadian games to ensure the player has had certain number of games played. I wouldn't be opposed to having a qualifier playing, for example, 10, or 15, or whatever outside the box number of games on the basis that his last rated game places his rating at or higher than the first game they played in the year in question. That would likely indicate that if they've only played 10 or 15 Canadian rated games and maintained at least their original rating, that they've been playing elsewhere and thus they're more likely to be a good candidate to represent Canada.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

It seems to me that we're the "Chess Federation of Canada" for a reason. In my view, Canada's representative should have to play "X" amount of games under the Canadian banner (CFC rated games). Games in USA or other countries should not be counted for purposes of qualification simply on the basis of the difficulty in confirming the games (especially when they've been played close to the upcoming tournament). Those outside Canada games can obviously make great practice for the player. If the player wants to qualify, then they should play their qualifying games in Canada. I would suggest somewhere between 20 and 40 Canadian games to ensure the player has had certain number of games played. I wouldn't be opposed to having a qualifier playing, for example, 10, or 15, or whatever outside the box number of games on the basis that his last rated game places his rating at or higher than the first game they played in the year in question. That would likely indicate that if they've only played 10 or 15 Canadian rated games and maintained at least their original rating, that they've been playing elsewhere and thus they're more likely to be a good candidate to represent Canada.

We have always considered FIDE rated games the equivalent of playing CFC rated games. Potentially requiring too many CFC games could disqualify both first boards at our last Olympiad for the national and women's team which is not something I would encourage given their strong play.

[Hal Bond]

I agree with a higher activity requirement, and to this end CFC, FIDE or FQE are all fine by me. FIDE rated play in Quebec or elsewhere in Canada must also be CFC rated, so for the "Selection ratings" I would stick with the CFC/FIDE current formula.

[Paul Leblanc]

While I don't see a need to play 20-40 games in Canada I do think that our Canadian team members need to support our Canadian events. Maybe it's only me but it bothers me to have members on our Olympiad Team, supported by our National Federation who don't have to play a single game in Canada.

[Lyle Craver]

First off - I am glad to see Mr. Lombard's participation - it's always good seeing a new VM taking part!

In my opinion 20-40 is too high - and is this in the previous 12 or 24 months?

I would not want to make such a rule ironclad - if our champ was to go deep at the Candidates' level and as such not play much at home I would still want him for the Olympic team. On the other hand, we don't want to encourage people to sit on their ratings and play strictly abroad or online either.

[Garland Best]

It bothers me if they are not playing period, but not if they are playing abroad. For example, if Eric Hansen decided to spend the next 2 years playing in Europe against higher caliber competition and for better rewards for his playing, this should not be a reason to penalize him. I don't see hockey players barred from playing on the Russian or Swedish Olympic teams simply because they play in the NHL.