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Lyle Craver
01-04-2014, 01:47 PM
Governors, please post items for new business here:

Michael Barron
01-05-2014, 01:48 PM
Dear Governors,

This year 3 out of 12 CYCC winners were unable to participate at WYCC - probably due to unusual time and place of WYCC.
We have detailed regulations in the CFC Handbook describing how a replacement should be selected in this case, but I feel that the CFC didn't make sufficient efforts to find a proper replacement for Canadian Champions.
As a result, in one of 12 sections the official player wasn't qualified for WYCC, and in another section Canada wasn't represented at all!

To avoid similar problems in the future and to make selection process more transparent, I would like to propose the following Motion:

To amend sub paragraph 712 (a) by adding the following sentence:
If the winner is unable to participate at WYCC, this fact shall be announced on the public CFC Forum as soon as it became known.

The amended sub paragraph 712 (a) shall read:

"712.Participation in the World Events:

INVITED PLAYERS

a) Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions.

Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified to become official representatives for:

1) World Youth Chess Championship (WYCC);

2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship;

3) North American Youth Chess Championship.

If the winner is unable to participate at WYCC, this fact shall be announced on the public CFC Forum as soon as it became known.
If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place. If the second place finisher also declines, the highest finisher in the tournament who is willing to participate in the world event (if not rejected by CFC Executive due to the sub paragraph (d)), shall be selected. The CFC Board of Directors shall use an appropriate tie-breaking method to break ties if required to determine the order of finish.

All official representatives to WYCC should receive financial support from CFC to reduce their travel expenses. "

Any seconder?

Vladimir Drkulec
01-05-2014, 04:36 PM
Dear Governors,

This year 3 out of 12 CYCC winners were unable to participate at WYCC - probably due to unusual time and place of WYCC.
We have detailed regulations in the CFC Handbook describing how a replacement should be selected in this case, but I feel that the CFC didn't make sufficient efforts to find a proper replacement for Canadian Champions.
As a result, in one of 12 sections the official player wasn't qualified for WYCC, and in another section Canada wasn't represented at all!

To avoid similar problems in the future and to make selection process more transparent, I would like to propose the following Motion:

To amend sub paragraph 712 (a) by adding the following sentence:
If the winner is unable to participate at WYCC, this fact shall be announced on the public CFC Forum as soon as it became known.

The amended sub paragraph 712 (a) shall read:

"712.Participation in the World Events:

INVITED PLAYERS

a) Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions.

Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified to become official representatives for:

1) World Youth Chess Championship (WYCC);

2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship;

3) North American Youth Chess Championship.

If the winner is unable to participate at WYCC, this fact shall be announced on the public CFC Forum as soon as it became known.
If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place. If the second place finisher also declines, the highest finisher in the tournament who is willing to participate in the world event (if not rejected by CFC Executive due to the sub paragraph (d)), shall be selected. The CFC Board of Directors shall use an appropriate tie-breaking method to break ties if required to determine the order of finish.

All official representatives to WYCC should receive financial support from CFC to reduce their travel expenses. "

Any seconder?

We have already had some discussion on this situation on the governors forum. The situation that this motion seeks to redress would not have been redressed by this motion in the case of this year's team. Someone who is a qualified player by your definition withdraws at the last minute from the team and any replacement player is required to jump through many hoops in order to even be able to go. It is reasonable for people to say that yes they might go to the WYCC early on and then when the time comes to make the actual commitment including fulfilling all of the financial requirements and steps with regard to visas, passports and so on to decide that they can't proceed.

The correct way to undertake this process is to early on send every potential player an email to ascertain their interest in going to WYCC. At this point it would be reasonable for them to say that I will only go if I am the official player. Others might say I will go whether I am the official player or not. At some point you have to ask for a financial commitment to separate those who are serious about going from those who are not. The official player in more than one section changed several times over the course of the months leading up to WYCC as I recall.

Frank Lee has indicated that he plans with the youth committee to develop guidelines which will allow us to make this process more transparent and ordered.

I don't think that it is reasonable to ask the youth coordinator to drop everything and beg players who have previously declined to go to WYCC to go with the official player designation when he is in the middle of jumping through considerable hoops in order to just get the team registered with the organizers and eligible for visas and rooms and everything else that is required to go to WYCC. Maybe I am being unreasonable.

Nikolay Noritsyn
01-06-2014, 12:51 AM
I can second the proposed motion.

Yelizaveta Orlova
01-06-2014, 11:27 PM
I agree, Michael Barron.

I was quite surprised we did not have one single U18 boy this year.
Instead, we had a lot more than 3 boys participate for their section in the U8, U10 sections.

Remembering my past WYCCs, wasn't it only the top 3 who can even participate in this competition years ago?
I am not saying that we should continue this rule, it's great to see more people playing for our country, but I personally believe that we should make sure that every section is filled up before allowing extras to come on the team.

In my honest opinion, at least one top person of each category should be filled up (it doesn't matter if they came 4th or 5th, if the others couldn't make it we should just keep going until someone decides to go).

Also, if I go as a coach next year, I will not have any problems being a guardian for anyone 14 years and older. If the budget towards having a family member to come is hectic, the child can use myself or another coach as a guardian. We always want our top placed/rated players go to WYCC - if money (towards their parents) is too expensive and the child is paid for, why not allow them to have a chance by allowing them to have a guardian? I know this used to be quite common in countries like Ukraine, where they would have couple of coaches to a huge amount of children (but guess what? Those kids came alone, without family - coaches were the guardians!)

Just my two cents!

Michael Barron
01-07-2014, 12:29 AM
Apparently, we have a problem with the CFC membership renewals... :(

In October-November 2013 the Greater Toronto Chess League organized Toronto Senior Championship.
5 players renewed their CFC memberships at the event.
GTCL collected membership fees, sent collected funds to the CFC, the cheque was cashed, the event was rated:
http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournament_check_number=201311091&key=140106

But membership expiry dates were not updated! :(

Could somebody explain - why?
Did we miss something? :confused:

Michael Barron
01-07-2014, 12:37 AM
Frank Lee has indicated that he plans with the youth committee to develop guidelines which will allow us to make this process more transparent and ordered.


Good plans! :cool:

Could Frank Lee inform us:
Who are on the youth committee?



I don't think that it is reasonable to ask the youth coordinator to drop everything and beg players who have previously declined to go to WYCC to go with the official player designation when he is in the middle of jumping through considerable hoops in order to just get the team registered with the organizers and eligible for visas and rooms and everything else that is required to go to WYCC. Maybe I am being unreasonable.

Is it unreasonable to ask for important information to be available in a timely manner?
How much time it takes to post a short announcement on the public CFC Forum? :confused:

If it's really so difficult for the youth coordinator, I'm willing to help him with this task...

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 11:52 AM
Apparently, we have a problem with the CFC membership renewals... :(

In October-November 2013 the Greater Toronto Chess League organized Toronto Senior Championship.
5 players renewed their CFC memberships at the event.
GTCL collected membership fees, sent collected funds to the CFC, the cheque was cashed, the event was rated:
http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournament_check_number=201311091&key=140106

But membership expiry dates were not updated! :(

Could somebody explain - why?
Did we miss something? :confused:

I discussed this matter with Michael von Keitz late last night on Skype and this situation should be resolved with the next update of member expiry dates. This update should happen later this week.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 01:09 PM
I agree, Michael Barron.

I was quite surprised we did not have one single U18 boy this year.

Many of the potential U18 open participants are in university or college and the start of WYCC conflicted with the end of their exam period.



Instead, we had a lot more than 3 boys participate for their section in the U8, U10 sections.

Remembering my past WYCCs, wasn't it only the top 3 who can even participate in this competition years ago?

That is possible but I can't really say as I don't know what the situation was before the recent time period.



I am not saying that we should continue this rule, it's great to see more people playing for our country, but I personally believe that we should make sure that every section is filled up before allowing extras to come on the team.

The two issues of extra players and having official representatives in each section are not tied together. There is a procedure for non-qualifying individuals to apply to be included in the team as given in the handbook. These rules were added to the handbook by the governors.



In my honest opinion, at least one top person of each category should be filled up (it doesn't matter if they came 4th or 5th, if the others couldn't make it we should just keep going until someone decides to go).

This is the ideal situation. The problem is that people who decide not to go will not always inform us of that fact until we are very late in the process. This will be a significant problem this year as the WYCC is scheduled to start in Durban, South Africa exactly two months after the end of the CYCC. The WYCC runs from 18-Sep-2014 to 30-Sep-2014. This year the first WYCC deadline for entries was exactly two months before the WYCC began. This year potential players will likely have to make a commitment to go within days or hours of the end of CYCC.



Also, if I go as a coach next year, I will not have any problems being a guardian for anyone 14 years and older. If the budget towards having a family member to come is hectic, the child can use myself or another coach as a guardian.

Your offer opens up some concerns about questions of liability which would need to be addressed before we could even consider such an arrangement. There are serious concerns next year in the area of security. South Africa is not entirely safe (which is a great understatement). The 2014 WYCC organizers have made assurances that security issues will be addressed.



We always want our top placed/rated players go to WYCC - if money (towards their parents) is too expensive and the child is paid for, why not allow them to have a chance by allowing them to have a guardian? I know this used to be quite common in countries like Ukraine, where they would have couple of coaches to a huge amount of children (but guess what? Those kids came alone, without family - coaches were the guardians!)

Just my two cents!

I suspect that the cost of required clearances and insurance would be quite high for such an arrangement here in Canada and it might mean that no sane person would be willing to serve on the Executive (or board assuming we make the transition to the new NFP Act) as they would have to bear the financial risk of such an arrangement.

Ken Craft
01-07-2014, 01:22 PM
Will a separate thread be started for this motion?

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 01:41 PM
A separate thread will be started at the next meeting in April.

Ken Craft
01-07-2014, 01:53 PM
Are you not allowing this motion to come to a vote at this meeting?

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 02:55 PM
I am making a ruling that discussion and a vote on this motion shall be deferred to the April meeting. By that time I hope the requirements, timelines and deadlines for registering for WYCC 2014 will be more clear and we will have a better idea of how to proceed with the implementation of this new rule, in the event that it is accepted by the governors. The time between determination of the WYCC champions and the need for the champions and all other prospective players to commit to going is likely to be quite short. It is possible that the deadline for registering for WYCC may be before the end of the CYCC if this year's organizers have a deadline similar to last year's which was two months before the scheduled start of WYCC.

Ken Craft
01-07-2014, 03:01 PM
I fail to see how the debate over an addition of this sentence to the regulations requires any additional information, let alone need to be put off to April. What is the point of a new business section if the new business is not going to be dealt with at the meeting?

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 04:49 PM
There are notification requirements for adding items to an agenda for an online meeting. These matters were discussed on the governors forum and could easily have been added to the agenda. They were not added in a timely manner.

I really think that we should concentrate on the iceberg (NFPA) protruding from the CFC hull and deal with questions on the optimal arrangement of the deck chairs after we have resolved the existential questions which that iceberg poses. I have no doubt that some of the governors might question my priorities.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 04:51 PM
PROCEDURES FOR GOVERNORS' ONLINE MEETINGS

22A. 1) The Meeting [Motion 2010-18]:

i) Meetings shall be held publicly [Motion 2013-N (McKim/Bond)] on the CFC Governors' Discussion Board.

With a majority vote of Executive members a motion or discussion at a meeting may be started in the private forum as a confidential discussion. Such discussion may be made public by 2/3 majority vote of the Governors (via a properly seconded motion, which is also confidential until such time as it passes). Such a motion must be moved and seconded within the timelines of the meeting and a vote must be held within two weeks, if it is not possible during the meeting. [Motion 2013-N Amendment (Mallon/Zeromskis)]

ii) Meetings shall be held from the 1st to the 7th of every third month, beginning with the CFC AGM in July [See Motion 2013-M (McKim/Bond)]. The meeting will start at 11:00AM on the 1st and conclude at 10:00PM on the 7th (subject to a motion ammendment extension). All times in this section are Eastern Time.

iii) There shall be a quorum of 15 governors to constitute a meeting.

iv) Motions will be passed during meetings, and such meeting extensions as may be required due to amending motions.

v) The President, or someone designated by him/her as an alternate, shall chair the meeting.

vi) The Posting Secretary will post the agenda items to be dealt with.

vii) Proposed agenda items will be sent to the Secretary by 6:00 PM, two days before the start of the meeting. The Secretary will assemble these suggestions and forward them to the President. The President shall draw up the meeting final agenda (he may consult with the Secretary in doing this). The President shall publish the agenda as soon as possible, before the meeting.

2) The Role of the Chairperson:

i) The Chair will decide on procedural matters such as motions of order, when to close agenda items, whether to add items to the agenda after the deadline, adjournment, etc.

ii) The President shall initially abstain on all motion votes. However, in case of a tie vote on motions or elections, he shall have the tie-breaking vote.

3) The Role of the Posting Secretary: The Posting Secretary, or his/her designated alternate, shall be made a Governors’ Discussion Board Administrator. S/he shall post the meeting agenda, discussion threads and motion voting threads on the Governors’ Discussion Board as follows:

i) Posting of Meeting Agenda – As soon as the Secretary can, s/he shall post the agenda on both the Governors’ Discussion Board, and the members’ CFC Chess Forum.

ii) Agenda Items – each agenda item shall be a new thread. The opening agenda item will be “Those Present“, where governors will sign in. It will be a “sticky“ so it remains at the top of the page. The second last agenda item will be “New Business“. The Chair will instruct the Posting Secretary whether to open a new thread on “New Business“ items proposed (i.e. whether there is sufficient meeting time left to deal with the item; etc.)

iii) Agenda Item Introductions – the Posting Secretary will post any preliminary introduction statement, giving relevant facts and issues, as the first post under agenda item headings. These will have been developed by the Secretary, in consultation with the agenda item proposer, in advance of the meeting.

iv) Motions – motions will be “stickies“ at the top of the page, and will only be used for recording governor votes. No voting on motions can occur until after 9:00PM on the 4th, to allow for initial discussion, and the filing of amending motions. After voting on motions has commenced, there can be no amending of the motion. Motions voting closes at 6:00PM on the 7th. Discussion of motions will be under normal agenda item headings.

v) Amending Motions – motions to amend a tabled motion may be introduced up to 6:00PM on the 3rd. A discussion thread for them shall be started. They shall be voted on by the normal motion vote closing time – 6:00PM on the 7th. Once an amending motion is filed, the main motion sought to be amended shall be temporarily closed, pending the outcome of the amending motion.

vi) Motion Meeting-Extension – where a motion has been “closed“ due to an amending motion, as soon after 6:00PM on the 7th as possible, the Posting Secretary will reopen the motion, or if amended, start a new thread on voting on the amended motion. There will no longer be a discussion thread for the unamended motion nor a new one started for the amended motion. The meeting will then be extended to 6:00PM on the 10th to vote on this motion(s) (and for no other business). Voting on this motion(s) shall be closed at 6:00PM on the 10th.

4) Agenda Item Summary: At 9:00AM on the 6th, or as soon thereafter as possible, the President, or the Posting Secretary if asked by the President, will post a summary of the agenda item discussion, setting out the critical points and the majority view, if any, on any controversial issue. S/he will propose what action might be taken on the agenda item, if any, in his/her opinion. Governors will have until 9:00PM on the 7th to respond to the President’s Summary. Whether the President or Posting Secretary summarizes discussions during a meeting extension is optional.

5) Vote Results: As soon after the close of voting on motions as possible, the Posting Secretary will post the results of all motions, giving the names of governors and their vote, and confirm whether the motion passed or failed (e.g. whether constitutional amendments achieved the 2/3 majority needed) on the Governors’ Discussion Board and the members’ CFC Chess Forum. [Motion 2011-D]

6) Meeting Minutes: [Eliminated as a consequence of Motion 2013-N (McKim/Bond) and Motion 2013-O (McKim/Bond), which make meetings public and replace Governors' Letters with quarterly voting ledgers, respectively]

7) Governors' Letters: [Replaced with quarterly voting ledgers as a consequence of Motion 2013-O (McKim/Bond). These ledgers contain the full voting record of the Assembly of Governors for the term and are provided between meetings. As outlined in (6), above, Meeting Minutes are not made available]The Governors’ On-line Meetings, will replace the tradition of motions being discussed and voted on in Governors’ Letters. Motions filed will now be for the next Governors’ Meeting, unless dealt with by e-mail.

23. That in the event a governor’s vote is needed outside the times of the regular online meetings and AGM, such a vote will take place on the governors’ private discussion forum following not fewer than 72 hours of exclusive discussion time on that forum. An email must be sent to all governors at the start of discussion giving them a direct link to the discussion, with the same happening as of the start of voting. [Motion 2013-Q (Mallon/Craft)]

Christopher Mallon
01-07-2014, 07:23 PM
There's no rush. Precedent is that any changes made to qualification rules would not take effect for the current qualification cycle, so this change wouldn't even take effect until 2015. April is plenty soon enough.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-07-2014, 07:40 PM
There's no rush. Precedent is that any changes made to qualification rules would not take effect for the current qualification cycle, so this change wouldn't even take effect until 2015. April is plenty soon enough.

That is exactly my thought on the matter.

Garland Best
01-07-2014, 11:00 PM
I don't think Yelizaveta realizes what can happen when she writes "Also, if I go as a coach next year, I will not have any problems being a guardian for anyone 14 years and older. If the budget towards having a family member to come is hectic, the child can use myself or another coach as a guardian."

I run a scout venturers troup for six boys, ages 15 and 16. To do this for Scouts Canada I needed FIVE character references, both male and female, undergo interviews, and go though a full police check. In addition I have to go through tens of hours of online training. All for good reason. The liabilities associated with being responsible for youths are horrendous. If something ever went wrong on one of these events, the repercussions could destroy the CFC.

I'm sure the CFC Youth Commitee is well aware of these concerns and follows some set of rules and guidelines. However just compare the two organizations and you will see just how poorly protected we are.

Michael Barron
01-07-2014, 11:12 PM
I'm sure the CFC Youth Commitee is well aware of these concerns and follows some set of rules and guidelines.

Well, maybe the CFC Youth Commitee is well aware of these concerns, but the CFC Governors still aren't aware who are on the CFC Youth Commitee... :(

Is it a secret? :confused:

Vladimir Drkulec
01-08-2014, 12:11 AM
I don't think Yelizaveta realizes what can happen when she writes "Also, if I go as a coach next year, I will not have any problems being a guardian for anyone 14 years and older. If the budget towards having a family member to come is hectic, the child can use myself or another coach as a guardian."

I run a scout venturers troup for six boys, ages 15 and 16. To do this for Scouts Canada I needed FIVE character references, both male and female, undergo interviews, and go though a full police check.

The problem even with this somewhat stringent procedure is that someone like former hockey coach Graham James or any number of members of the clergy who have been later charged with crimes against children would no doubt have easily gotten the requisite character references and passed the police clearance.



In addition I have to go through tens of hours of online training. All for good reason. The liabilities associated with being responsible for youths are horrendous. If something ever went wrong on one of these events, the repercussions could destroy the CFC.

It would simply not be possible for someone who is acting as a coach for ten players to adequately supervise them in a foreign country and undertake to provide the chess coaching required. The CFC can find coaches but finding guardians is extremely dangerous. The members of the executive would also be exposed to the loss of all of their assets if something ever went horribly wrong. The laws of entropy assure that the potential for things to go horribly wrong is there always and it doesn't even have to be in any way the fault of the coach/guardian for the consequences to the child, the coach, the CFC and the liable members of the board to be catastrophic.




I'm sure the CFC Youth Commitee is well aware of these concerns and follows some set of rules and guidelines. However just compare the two organizations and you will see just how poorly protected we are.

This is grounds for concern.

Egidijus Zeromskis
01-08-2014, 10:02 AM
Did underage Olympiad team members go with their parents too?

Yelizaveta Orlova
01-09-2014, 12:12 AM
Hello Everyone,

I just saw one of my good friends, Konstantin Semianiuk.

He got 3rd place at WYCC for U18 boys. He told me that he never even got an email about WYCC.
I think that this is a bit absurd because he did make it to the top 3, and yet he never got an email offering him to go to WYCC?
If the 1st and 2nd place did not go, why was Konstantin not contacted?

This is why Michael and I felt a little confused about how there was no U18 boy to represent our country.
I am almost certain if Konstantin was invited we would have had a boy to represent Canada in the U18 section.

Anyways, the past is the past - just think it's important next year to try our best to get at least one person to represent each section.

Thanks!

Yelizaveta Orlova
01-09-2014, 12:20 AM
Also, about being a guardian - I was just making a suggestion. I did not want to say anything wrong. I just want all potential Canadian stars have a chance to play at the WYCC and not have finances to be a concern in them going/not going. I did not think about the reasons you listed, I am sorry. I did however once or twice go to WYCC without my parents: a parent of one of the participants was my guardian. Same as when I went to the Olympiad at the age of 15, Dina Kagramanov was my guardian for that tournament.

Garland Best
01-09-2014, 12:53 AM
Hi Yelizaveta.

Nothing wrong with suggesting being a guardian. Keep making suggestions, that's how progress is made. I just wanted to make known what concerns are related to it.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-09-2014, 02:15 AM
Hello Everyone,

I just saw one of my good friends, Konstantin Semianiuk.

He got 3rd place at WYCC for U18 boys. He told me that he never even got an email about WYCC.
I think that this is a bit absurd because he did make it to the top 3, and yet he never got an email offering him to go to WYCC?
If the 1st and 2nd place did not go, why was Konstantin not contacted?

This is why Michael and I felt a little confused about how there was no U18 boy to represent our country.
I am almost certain if Konstantin was invited we would have had a boy to represent Canada in the U18 section.

Anyways, the past is the past - just think it's important next year to try our best to get at least one person to represent each section.

Thanks!

I am looking into this. I know that as late as September 27th, David Zhang who finished 1st was still listed as going as the official representative. I believe he was still trying to get permission to reschedule some of his exams from his school at that point in time which he was ultimately not able to do if I understand the situation correctly.

According to my spreadsheet from August 28 an email was sent to a yahoo account listed for Konstantin enquiring about his interest in participating at WYCC.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: info@chess.ca
To: flee1@sympatico.ca
CC: vdrkulec@hotmail.com
Subject: 2013 World Youth Chess Championships
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:45:54 -0500

Dear 2013 CYCC Participant,

You are receiving this message in relation to your qualification for the 2013 WYCC in Al-Ain, UAE. The event runs from the 17th to the 29th of December of this year and offers room, board and shuttle, among other services, for 30 Euros per person per day. Further information on the event can be found at the following link: http://www.worldyouth2013.com/ (http://www.worldyouth2013.com/).

We ask that all qualifiers, regardless of standing, get back to us by Friday, August 16th, indicating whether they intend to participate in this event. Soon after, we will work with you as a group to register our delegation with the organizers.

First place finishers in each category at this year’s CYCC are entitled to receive bursaries toward their cost of travel. In the past, this has been $1,000 per official representative. Top finishers in each category at the 2013 CYCC were as follows:

U08G – Harmony Zhu
U10G – Jeannie Zhang
U12G – Maili-Jade Ouellet
U14G – Qiyu Zhou
U16G – Rebecca Giblon
U18G – Alice Huanyi Xiao

U08 – Nameer Issani
U10 – Luke Pulfer
U12 – Kevin Wan
U14 – Jason Cao
U16 – Adam Dorrance
U18 – David Zhang

Congratulations to all qualifiers. We encourage each of you to participate and wish you the best of success in this event.

Best wishes,

Michael von Keitz
Chess Federation of Canada

To: Frank Lee, CFC Youth Coordinator
CC: Vlad Drkulec, CFC President





Michael von Keitz has confirmed that this email was sent to the email address of record for Konstantin and there was no response. Konstantin is identified on the spreadsheet as finishing 3rd at CYCC on tie break. There are emails listed for all of the top finishers in U18 open at CYCC. Emails are listed for all of the following and emails were presumably sent along to each of them. Two of the players that tied with Konstantin said they would not attend and I recall seeing emails or copies of emails for them.

David Zhang (1st)
Aquino Inigo (2nd)
Nikita Kraiouchkine
David Itkin
Mate Marinkovic
Mike Ivanov
Konstantin Semianiuk (3rd)

I do recall Konstantin's name coming up in conversation but I don't remember if that was a phone conversation or if it was an email. If it was email I haven't found it.

Michael Barron
01-10-2014, 12:39 AM
I am looking into this. I know that as late as September 27th, David Zhang who finished 1st was still listed as going as the official representative. I believe he was still trying to get permission to reschedule some of his exams from his school at that point in time which he was ultimately not able to do if I understand the situation correctly.

According to my spreadsheet from August 28 an email was sent to a yahoo account listed for Konstantin enquiring about his interest in participating at WYCC.


Thank you, Vlad, for information!

We all understand a difference between official player and additional player.
As well we all understand a difference between inquiry and invitation.

The question is:
On September 28th, when David Zhang informed you that he is unable to attend WYCC, what CFC could do to find a replacement?

The CFC Handbook says:
If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place.


Was it done? :confused:




--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: info@chess.ca
To: flee1@sympatico.ca
CC: vdrkulec@hotmail.com
Subject: 2013 World Youth Chess Championships
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:45:54 -0500

Dear 2013 CYCC Participant,

You are receiving this message in relation to your qualification for the 2013 WYCC in Al-Ain, UAE. The event runs from the 17th to the 29th of December of this year and offers room, board and shuttle, among other services, for 30 Euros per person per day. Further information on the event can be found at the following link: http://www.worldyouth2013.com/ (http://www.worldyouth2013.com/).

We ask that all qualifiers, regardless of standing, get back to us by Friday, August 16th, indicating whether they intend to participate in this event. Soon after, we will work with you as a group to register our delegation with the organizers.

First place finishers in each category at this year’s CYCC are entitled to receive bursaries toward their cost of travel. In the past, this has been $1,000 per official representative. Top finishers in each category at the 2013 CYCC were as follows:

U08G – Harmony Zhu
U10G – Jeannie Zhang
U12G – Maili-Jade Ouellet
U14G – Qiyu Zhou
U16G – Rebecca Giblon
U18G – Alice Huanyi Xiao

U08 – Nameer Issani
U10 – Luke Pulfer
U12 – Kevin Wan
U14 – Jason Cao
U16 – Adam Dorrance
U18 – David Zhang

Congratulations to all qualifiers. We encourage each of you to participate and wish you the best of success in this event.

Best wishes,

Michael von Keitz
Chess Federation of Canada

To: Frank Lee, CFC Youth Coordinator
CC: Vlad Drkulec, CFC President



Hopefully, you would agree that this email hardly could be considered as invitation for Konstantin to go as the official player with a bursary toward cost of travel.
Is it unreasonable to expect a personal invitation explaining all the details? :confused:

Vladimir Drkulec
01-10-2014, 01:41 AM
Thank you, Vlad, for information!

We all understand a difference between official player and additional player.
As well we all understand a difference between inquiry and invitation.

That was the invitation, the call to adventure. Declining or ignoring the call can result in regrets.



The question is:
On September 28th, when David Zhang informed you that he is unable to attend WYCC, what CFC could do to find a replacement?

David Zhang was still the official player up to October 2nd, according to Andrew Giblon at which point it became clear that he would not be going because of school requirements with respect to exams. At that point we were scrambling to simply get everything done to register the team. None of the players who needed visas had them. The WYCC organizers seemed to be ignoring our barrage of emails. The required payments changed adding 30 euros to the cost for everyone. Some federations managed this chaos better than others.



Team Canada,

Now that everyone had lived through a full day of trials and tribulations, you have personally experienced various aspects of the chaos still reigning at the WYCC. The organizers are very warm people genuinely trying to make it a good event, but their approaches just don't scale, so they have to learn - with us reaping the consequences.

As someone who came in four days earlier to prepare the ground and was engaged in long and extensive discussions with both Mr. Mehrdad Pahlevanzadeh and Dr. Nasser Al Salem Al Ameri since December 13, please allow me to tell you that there were myriads of serious problems that snared even the delegations much bigger than ours. I have manually sorted the pile of visa originals that were all over makeshift tables in the magnificent main building of the Al-Ain Chess and Culture Club - with photos not matching names and names assigned to wrong countries. There was a huge European team, 16 members of whom had to spend the first night on the lobby floor since the room payments were wrong. There were teams who couldn't have their badges printed yesterday morning since only part of their FIDE fees were paid. There were dozens of other emergencies that had one thing in common: the team coordinators back in their countries dropped the ball and some point and put their delegations in precarious positions.

What was different for Canada? Our coordinator, Frank Lee, shined through and came on top of every issue that was within his power - and even beyond.

Yes, all of us were sometimes tempted to demonstrate weakness and let frustration take over when Frank couldn't give precise answers to seemingly straighforward questions we were asking him back in Canada. Now that we have seen the Oriental way of doing business, we can appreciate even more that Frank was frustrated ten times more than any of us, and still he carried on, and was unfailingly polite and courteous with everyone. I won't bother you with awful details, but let me bear witness that every large team, bar none, was faced with a major crisis on Dec 14-17 that was due to a mistake or omission of their coordinators. Yes, Americans had tremendous clout and Jerry Nash's personal connections, so they recovered from theirs pretty quickly, but Frank Lee's tireless work made it possible for Canada to be in the best shape and avoid such crises altogether.

Frank's job is often thanksless and underappreciated. I'd like to thank him from the bottom of our hearts.

We love you Frank! :-)

--
V.T.




The CFC Handbook says:
If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place.


Was it done? :confused:



Hopefully, you would agree that this email hardly could be considered as invitation for Konstantin to go as the official player with a bursary toward cost of travel.
Is it unreasonable to expect a personal invitation explaining all the details? :confused:

That original email was an invitation to go to WYCC. I think it is reasonable to expect a response from the player. Even a response that he will only go if he gets the official player status. You and I have already been through this dance on the governors forum. If there was a flaw in the process it was that we didn't set earlier deadlines for confirmation of attendance. If there had been more time then perhaps better efforts could have been made. As it was everyone involved in the process of getting our team registered was very busy.

Félix Dumont
01-10-2014, 09:08 AM
I must agree with Michael Barron on this... There is a huge difference between inviting someone at his own cost, and inviting him as the official player. The top players should have been made aware that they could have been the official representatives.

Michael Barron
01-10-2014, 11:39 PM
I got the email:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Michael,

Since you are active in CFC Governor meeting can you point out that Toronto
FIDE Master Yuanchen Zhang has two FIDE ID numbers:
#2611902
#2618915

The first number has his title and rating, should be kept.
The Hart House Christmas Open is showing on FIDE site with his wrong
ID number, presumably should be fixed to his real ID number as it now
shows him as unrated and impacts other players who played him.
(see attached image)

If these issues are not fixed, the errors will multiply exponentially and eventually
years later CFC administration spends all the time fixing mistakes instead of providing
originally intended service. By that time the person who caused the problems no longer
works there and somebody else takes the blame.

If you post please keep my name out of it, just say a player pointed it out to you.
Personally I would also ask who is supposed to audit for these errors as there may be
more of them. Where there is one error, there are how many more we simply do not know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could we fix it?

Michael Barron
01-10-2014, 11:59 PM
http://www.chesseducators.com/2014/01/09/the-north-american-youth-chess-championship-returns-to-the-usa/

The North American Youth Chess Championship returns to the USA!

DATES: June 12-16, 2014

WHERE: Doubletree Tarrytown Hotel 455 South Broadway Tarrytown, NY 10591 USA

FORMAT: 9 ROUNDS, SWISS SYSTEM

TIME CONTROL: Game 90 minutes plus 30 seconds increment.

TOURNAMENT REGISTRATION: $100 Per Player from January 15 – April 11, 2014; $115 from April 12- May 16 & $135 per player after May 17, 2014.

More info:
http://www.chesseducators.com/2014/01/09/the-north-american-youth-chess-championship-returns-to-the-usa/

Michael Barron
01-11-2014, 12:28 AM
That original email was an invitation to go to WYCC.

I beg to differ.
According to the CFC Handbook, the second place finisher can't be invited until the winner turns down his invitation:
If the winner is unable to participate, the second place finisher shall be invited to go in his place.


You and I have already been through this dance on the governors forum.

Unfortunately, you closed the thread on the governors forum without answering my questions - that's why I have to repeat them in public...


If there was a flaw in the process it was that we didn't set earlier deadlines for confirmation of attendance.

Yes, it was one of the flaws.
But the main flaw in the process was that the CFC did absolutely nothing to find a proper replacement for official players.


If there had been more time then perhaps better efforts could have been made.

Could you please clarify:
What exactly could be done, if there had been more time?


As it was everyone involved in the process of getting our team registered was very busy.

Could you please clarify:
Who are these people involved in the process?

Bob Gillanders
01-11-2014, 11:56 AM
Dear Governors,

This year 3 out of 12 CYCC winners were unable to participate at WYCC - probably due to unusual time and place of WYCC.
We have detailed regulations in the CFC Handbook describing how a replacement should be selected in this case, but I feel that the CFC didn't make sufficient efforts to find a proper replacement for Canadian Champions.
As a result, in one of 12 sections the official player wasn't qualified for WYCC, and in another section Canada wasn't represented at all!

To avoid similar problems in the future and to make selection process more transparent, I would like to propose the following Motion:


Michael, Frank, Vlad: For your consideration, may I propose an alternative to Michael's motion that hopefully can achieve the same goal.

For 2014, the CFC website be used to document the selection process of our 12 official players to the WYCC. This would require that immediately after the CYCC, the CFC website lists the players eligible to be official players in the order in which they are to be invited. Beside their name is there response (yes I accept, yes but only if I am official player, yes I am going either way, or no I don't want to go). List deadlines for responses, also any problems listed (like waiting for payments, no passport yet, etc), so everyone knows the status of our official player selection. From reading the posts on this thread, communication is apparently a problem, and some mistrust has resulted. Transparency, transparency, transparency, gentlemen. Diligent and frequent website updates are critical, and parents must also be responsible to check the website frequently and meet deadlines.

This would all be explained several times at the CYCC, then one email sent to invite all eligible players.
After that, it is the parents responsibility.

How about it guys?

Bob Armstrong
01-11-2014, 12:01 PM
Michael, Frank, Vlad: For your consideration, may I propose an alternative to Michael's motion that hopefully can achieve the same goal.

For 2014, instead of relying on email communications, the CFC website be used to document the selection of our 12 official players to the WYCC. This would require that immediately after the CYCC, the CFC website lists the players eligible to be official players in the order in which they are to be invited. Beside their name is there response (yes I accept, yes but only if I am official player, yes I am going either way, or no I don't want to go). List deadlines for responses, also any problems listed (like waiting for payments, no passport yet, etc), so everyone knows the status of our official players. From reading the posts on this thread, communication is apparently a problem, and some mistrust has resulted. Transparency, transparency, transparency, gentlemen. Diligent and frequent website updates are critical, and parents must also be responsible to check the website frequently and meet deadlines. How about it guys?

Hi Bob G:

Seems quite common sense. The overall benefits in terms of cutting out disputes and misunderstandings, much outweighs the bit more work this will entail.

Bob A

Vladimir Drkulec
01-11-2014, 02:41 PM
Michael, Frank, Vlad: For your consideration, may I propose an alternative to Michael's motion that hopefully can achieve the same goal.

For 2014, the CFC website be used to document the selection process of our 12 official players to the WYCC. This would require that immediately after the CYCC, the CFC website lists the players eligible to be official players in the order in which they are to be invited. Beside their name is there response (yes I accept, yes but only if I am official player, yes I am going either way, or no I don't want to go). List deadlines for responses, also any problems listed (like waiting for payments, no passport yet, etc), so everyone knows the status of our official player selection. From reading the posts on this thread, communication is apparently a problem, and some mistrust has resulted. Transparency, transparency, transparency, gentlemen. Diligent and frequent website updates are critical, and parents must also be responsible to check the website frequently and meet deadlines.

This would all be explained several times at the CYCC, then one email sent to invite all eligible players.
After that, it is the parents responsibility.

How about it guys?

Seems very reasonable to me.

Bob Armstrong
01-11-2014, 03:29 PM
Seems very reasonable to me.

Hi Vlad:

Maybe Bob G's idea could be copied and archived for when we can pass regulations under the by-law, to deal with operational procedures like this?

Otherwise they are lost with the next executive - no one remembers a year from now, and no can find the original (well it would be here, but someone will have to remember where).

Bob A

Vladimir Drkulec
01-11-2014, 04:27 PM
Hi Vlad:

Maybe Bob G's idea could be copied and archived for when we can pass regulations under the by-law, to deal with operational procedures like this?

Otherwise they are lost with the next executive - no one remembers a year from now, and no can find the original (well it would be here, but someone will have to remember where).

Bob A

Copied and archived where? I could do it on my own PC but it doesn't help us two years down the road if I am not on the Executive.

This year's process was hectic in part because the organizers were slow to respond at most times. We had lots of questions but no answers. Also at times we would send out emails and ask people to send us A, B, C, D and E all of which were required by the organizers to process registration. Some people would send us A and B, or C and D and not respond for a while when we asked them for missing pieces of information.

Andrew Giblon has done a lot of work, including sending recommendations in previous years when he was head of delegation which have disappeared into the ether with previous members of the executive. Once I get the NFP act out of the way I would like to find a way to capture permanently those ideas. I don't think that it requires any resolution of the governors but simply to provide an easily accessible "how to" operating guide for future individuals who are charged with sending a team to WYCC. Incorporating Bob Gillanders suggestion and some form of Michael Barron's suggestion would be advisable.

I am a bit alarmed by the frequency where I am getting emails from members of the executive and governors where they have lost their PC to a virus or malware attack. My suspicion is that some of these were actually not virus or malware but simply Microsoft updates trashing the computer operating system. My own system to avoid this is to keep all emails on a server somewhere (hotmail, gmail etc), do regular backups of data and have multiple disk images available in case I lose a hard drive. I also have multiple hard drives that I can install the images on. A hard drive crash is about a half hour to an hour recovery process.

Of course sometimes the online service crashes as happened with one member of the executive and there is no longer an email archive to consult. In such cases you have to rely on the fallback of memory.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-11-2014, 04:37 PM
http://www.chesseducators.com/2014/01/09/the-north-american-youth-chess-championship-returns-to-the-usa/

The North American Youth Chess Championship returns to the USA!

DATES: June 12-16, 2014

WHERE: Doubletree Tarrytown Hotel 455 South Broadway Tarrytown, NY 10591 USA

FORMAT: 9 ROUNDS, SWISS SYSTEM

TIME CONTROL: Game 90 minutes plus 30 seconds increment.

TOURNAMENT REGISTRATION: $100 Per Player from January 15 – April 11, 2014; $115 from April 12- May 16 & $135 per player after May 17, 2014.

More info:
http://www.chesseducators.com/2014/01/09/the-north-american-youth-chess-championship-returns-to-the-usa/


Apparently these dates conflict with Ontario high school exams. The Pan Am YCC conflicts with CYCC.

Lyle Craver
01-11-2014, 06:46 PM
What is the best way to schedule in such a way that mayhem such as this be avoided wherever possible?

I'd suggest an e-mail from the National Junior Coordinator to the various provincial coordinators requesting dates for Spring/Easter vacations, Last Day of School, High School Examination period, Christmas vacation period, etc. all of which should be readily available from the provincial education ministries. (In my own school district their website has a calendar stating the dates of all these - I've no idea whether these are standardized throughout each province or not).

Communication between CFC and provincial reps needs to be two-way and this is an obvious case where information sharing is needed. It can't prevent FIDE doing awkward things like the Pan Am dates etc. but whatever can be done should be and I do not think asking provincial reps to supply such info should be overly onerous. I would think the schedule for the coming school year would be out nationally by August 15th - I know it is in BC.

Obviously there are bound to be timing conflicts but let these be resolved by making conscious decisions, not complaining afterwards "if only we knew!"

Michael Barron
01-11-2014, 09:22 PM
Michael, Frank, Vlad: For your consideration, may I propose an alternative to Michael's motion that hopefully can achieve the same goal.

For 2014, the CFC website be used to document the selection process of our 12 official players to the WYCC. This would require that immediately after the CYCC, the CFC website lists the players eligible to be official players in the order in which they are to be invited. Beside their name is there response (yes I accept, yes but only if I am official player, yes I am going either way, or no I don't want to go). List deadlines for responses, also any problems listed (like waiting for payments, no passport yet, etc), so everyone knows the status of our official player selection. From reading the posts on this thread, communication is apparently a problem, and some mistrust has resulted. Transparency, transparency, transparency, gentlemen. Diligent and frequent website updates are critical, and parents must also be responsible to check the website frequently and meet deadlines.

This would all be explained several times at the CYCC, then one email sent to invite all eligible players.
After that, it is the parents responsibility.

How about it guys?

Thank you, Bob!
This is excellent idea! :cool:

I started this discussion by indicating the problem and asking - could we do better?
Your suggestion addresses my concern.

The question is:
How could we make your suggestion a rule?
Should we pass it as a Motion?

Michael Barron
01-11-2014, 09:23 PM
I discussed this matter with Michael von Keitz late last night on Skype and this situation should be resolved with the next update of member expiry dates. This update should happen later this week.

Thank you, Vlad and Michael!
I just checked the CFC website - the problem is solved! :cool:

Michael Barron
01-11-2014, 09:27 PM
Apparently these dates conflict with Ontario high school exams.

Yes, these dates conflict with Ontario high school exams.
But this fact can't prevent us from sending Canadian delegation - not every potential player is Ontario high school student.

Could we try Bob's suggestion for transparent official players selection for this event?

Michael Barron
01-11-2014, 09:35 PM
It can't prevent FIDE doing awkward things like the Pan Am dates etc...


Lyle, let's be clear:
In this case not FIDE, but CFC is doing awkward things:
year after year select for the CYCC dates that conflict with PanAm. :(

FIDE made it clear:
North American Youth Chess Championships will be in May-June,
Pan American Youth Chess Championships will be in July,
World Youth Chess Championships will be in August-September.

The majority of National Chess Federations organize their National Youth Chess Championships in March-April.
Why the CFC can't do the same? :confused:

Vladimir Drkulec
01-12-2014, 03:46 AM
Yes, these dates conflict with Ontario high school exams.
But this fact can't prevent us from sending Canadian delegation - not every potential player is Ontario high school student.

Could we try Bob's suggestion for transparent official players selection for this event?

The rules for selection are already in place as outlined in the regulations around CYCC. Unfortunately they are a bit messy because of people graduating into the next age group competing for spots with those still in the same age group. We will try to incorporate Bob's and your suggestions when the selections are determined.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-12-2014, 03:53 AM
Lyle, let's be clear:
In this case not FIDE, but CFC is doing awkward things:
year after year select for the CYCC dates that conflict with PanAm. :(

FIDE made it clear:
North American Youth Chess Championships will be in May-June,

Do you want us to reprimand the Ontario educational system for setting high school exams on a date which conflicts with FIDE's tournament? :confused:



Pan American Youth Chess Championships will be in July,
World Youth Chess Championships will be in August-September.

The majority of National Chess Federations organize their National Youth Chess Championships in March-April.
Why the CFC can't do the same? :confused:

This looks like a job for the youth committee. They can make a recommendation on what makes sense.

Michael Barron
01-12-2014, 08:11 PM
This looks like a job for the youth committee. They can make a recommendation on what makes sense.

And I have to repeat the same question again:
Who are "they"?
Who are on the youth committee? :confused:

Michael Barron
01-12-2014, 08:19 PM
The rules for selection are already in place as outlined in the regulations around CYCC. Unfortunately they are a bit messy because of people graduating into the next age group competing for spots with those still in the same age group. We will try to incorporate Bob's and your suggestions when the selections are determined.

Vlad, this is the main issue:
transparency of selection process.

It's too late to incorporate any suggestions when the selections are determined - in case of WYCC it happened after registration deadline.
Bob suggested to post information about selection process before the selections are determined - this is the main point.

Could it be done? :confused:

Vladimir Drkulec
01-12-2014, 08:42 PM
Vlad, this is the main issue:
transparency of selection process.

It's too late to incorporate any suggestions when the selections are determined - in case of WYCC it happened after registration deadline.
Bob suggested to post information about selection process before the selections are determined - this is the main point.

Could it be done? :confused:

Yes it can be done.

Michael Barron
01-12-2014, 09:12 PM
Yes it can be done.

Thank you, Vlad!

Who will be responsible for updating information about 2014 NAYCC selection process on the CFC website?

Lyle Craver
01-13-2014, 03:10 AM
The rules for selection are already in place as outlined in the regulations around CYCC. Unfortunately they are a bit messy because of people graduating into the next age group competing for spots with those still in the same age group. We will try to incorporate Bob's and your suggestions when the selections are determined.

I've felt for more than 20 years that allowing players to play in a qualification tournament for which they are ineligible to play should they win is grossly unfair to those who play hoping to qualify.

If my chances to play at a higher level are frustrated by a loss to someone who goes forward instead of me, fair is fair - but to be eliminated by someone who isn't able to take the place I'm fighting for has always seemed wrong to me.

To be blunt - I feel strongly that being eligible to play in the next higher level tournament should the player win ought to be a basic qualification to play in a qualifying event.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-13-2014, 10:03 AM
Thank you, Vlad!

Who will be responsible for updating information about 2014 NAYCC selection process on the CFC website?

Is this your way of volunteering for the job?

Vladimir Drkulec
01-13-2014, 10:14 AM
I've felt for more than 20 years that allowing players to play in a qualification tournament for which they are ineligible to play should they win is grossly unfair to those who play hoping to qualify.

If my chances to play at a higher level are frustrated by a loss to someone who goes forward instead of me, fair is fair - but to be eliminated by someone who isn't able to take the place I'm fighting for has always seemed wrong to me.

To be blunt - I feel strongly that being eligible to play in the next higher level tournament should the player win ought to be a basic qualification to play in a qualifying event.

One way around this would be to move the CYCC to an earlier date as Michael Barron and others have suggested. This is only a problem where the tournaments which people are qualifying for fall in the next calendar year.

Christopher Field
01-13-2014, 12:16 PM
Apparently these dates conflict with Ontario high school exams. The Pan Am YCC conflicts with CYCC.

Dates for NAYCC: June 12-16, 2014.

It should be possible for any qualifier to obtain permission to write exams early. Application to the school Principal would have to be made at least by May 1, in order that there be sufficient time for teachers to arrange alternative examinations and for administration to be arranged.

Michael Barron
01-13-2014, 11:28 PM
Is this your way of volunteering for the job?

If you wish...

Just to make it clear:
I believe, it's the Youth Coordinator's responsibility.
But he can delegate this responsibility to me - together with appropriate authority. :cool:

Vladimir Drkulec
01-14-2014, 05:49 PM
I got the email:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Michael,

Since you are active in CFC Governor meeting can you point out that Toronto
FIDE Master Yuanchen Zhang has two FIDE ID numbers:
#2611902
#2618915

The first number has his title and rating, should be kept.
The Hart House Christmas Open is showing on FIDE site with his wrong
ID number, presumably should be fixed to his real ID number as it now
shows him as unrated and impacts other players who played him.
(see attached image)

If these issues are not fixed, the errors will multiply exponentially and eventually
years later CFC administration spends all the time fixing mistakes instead of providing
originally intended service. By that time the person who caused the problems no longer
works there and somebody else takes the blame.

If you post please keep my name out of it, just say a player pointed it out to you.
Personally I would also ask who is supposed to audit for these errors as there may be
more of them. Where there is one error, there are how many more we simply do not know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could we fix it?

I have sent Michael von Keitz an email asking him to fix this with the whole message quoted.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.