PDA

View Full Version : Youth Chess Championships



Ellen Nadeau
02-08-2009, 10:01 PM
Wanted: organizers and TDs
For: the new Youth Chess Championships (YCC) program
Starting: NOW!

As the national chess organization, CFC wants to see YCCs in every province and territory, and will contribute a package to encourage new and old organizers to run chess events for youth. The YCC packages will contain:
- the new CFC medals and certificates for winners
- detailed instructions and a CFC organizer shirt
- general support.
The winners of each category will be officially invited to attend the CYCC 2009 in beautiful Victoria, BC.

More information to follow, but any queries can be addressed to the CFC Youth Coordinator at my email: ellennadeau@yahoo.ca

Ellen

Ellen Nadeau
02-11-2009, 09:53 PM
I have already contacted some major regions of Canada about running a YCC.
Being the large and varied country we are, I don't want to chance missing out on getting the information to everyone so I have attached some guidelines for the YCC tournaments. If anyone has questions or feedback feel free to contact me.

Ellen Nadeau
CFC Youth Coordinator

Andrei Botez
02-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Hello Ellen,

I just read your document "WELCOME TO THE CFC’S YCC SERIES" and I appreciate the effort and good intention you obviously put in to it.

I have couple of questions regarding some of the points in this document: http://chesscanada.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5&d=1234403508

One of the things CFC is doing to encourage TD's and Organizers to run chess events for youth is the creation of this package:


As the national chess organization, CFC wants to see YCCs in every province and territory, and will contribute a package to encourage new and old organizers to run chess events for youth. The YCC packages will contain:
- the new CFC medals and certificates for winners
- detailed instructions and a CFC organizer shirt
- general support.

The organizers, normally, must agree with:

Organizer Agrees to
- mention CFC in media and publicity
- rate the tournament CFC
- pay dues after the tournament


So far is great, the next thing is what cause me to post here:

Fee structure between CFC and Organizer
- After the tournament the organizer sends $6 per participant to the CFC but must send a minimum $200 and only to a maximum of $400.

In this $6 is included the rating fee (If the tournament is submitted electronically using Swiss Sys). A regular junior only tournament rating fee is 50 cents/player.

I found this discouraging. In the last 2 years in BC there were around 75 players in the BC-YCC final. From Organizers point of view I can see it like this:

6$/player X 75players (BC) = $450 (36 medals + 75 rating fees)
OR

$75 rating fees X 0.50$ = $36.50
$450- $36.50 = $413.50/36medals = $11.5/medal

All the organizers know that they can get chess medals as low as 1$/piece, so even if you add the T-shirt, certificates and the key-chains, that is still a long way.


Also how attractive is for the chess parent an EF in the range that you mentioned:
So EF should be $26- $36+ expenses and any organizer ‘s share, which makes it a $45- $70 Entry Fee..

The CYCC EF is $150, and the kids are not required to play in YCC's in order to go to CYCC (maybe this can be made mandatory), so skipping YCC (except if the kid has a huge chance to win it) will make sense.

If we want this package to be REAL encouraging for Organizers and TD's maybe will be better to offer it for the cost: $1-$2/medal, $0.50/rating fee per player (drop the T-shirt and key-chain) + shipping.

Also made the YCC mandatory for CYCC (some exceptions can be added - previously national team members or anything else).

All the best for you and your wonderful family.

Andrei

David Lavin
02-12-2009, 04:27 PM
I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.

You also make a number of statements about parents and their willingness to spend money supporting their children't activities. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am curious as to how you reached these conclusions. What programs are your children enrolled in and what child related events have you organized to reach these conclusions? I have three boys and my experience is very different.

Are you planning on running a YCC tournament? If not, let's start a different thread to debate fee structures and leave this thread to the purpose it was created for, to discuss YCC events with interested organizers.

Larry Bevand
02-12-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.



Hi David,

Can we at least be sure that there is no conflict of interest here. FEN is related to Ellen. You can spin that anyway that you want but it is a reality.

CMA can provide the CFC the cheap junky China produced medals for far less than what the FQE paid last year at the FQE organized, and CFC sanctioned CYCC. Parents called me to complain about the quality of the goods but...if cost is your motivation...we have the same supplier as FEN for other products...and...we have the goods shipped to Montreal...not Kap so our cost is less...hence we can give them to the CFC for less.

I understand that FEN is the official retailer for the CFC when it comes to chess equipment:

So what I am asking is:

- that when the CFC purchases for their own events, does this mean that they use FEN as their supplier, regardless of quality and price?

- can we compare apples to apples?

I want you to know that I believe in what you are doing. I think you have taken the Federation forward. I think your decisions have been good and that the Federation is better today than when you took over.

I know you are a fair and honest individual and I am asking these questions as a point of information and not in the interest of arguement.

Sincerely,

Larry

Ellen Nadeau
02-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Hi Andrei, glad to hear from you. I'll respond to a couple points.

1. The CFC has been in a difficult financial position for the last few years. My starting point for any Youth Program is that it must be self-sustaining. Thus if some tournaments send $200 and others a bit more, there should be no problem to continue indefintely because costs are covered. Down the road we may be able to get sponsors on board again but it will probably be a while.

2. I tried to put together a package which would have everything in it necessary to run a tournament so that first time organizers wouldn't have problems.

3. Your point about required YCC participation to compete in the CYCC has merit. As Youth coordinator I balked at implementing that this year. The bid was already awarded, no notice was given across the regions... I opted for the Carrot approach rather than the stick. This Year let's encourage more organizers to run the YCC tournaments and the next year's governance may decide to implement a qualifier tournament as necessary to go to Nationals
Promotion of chess and chess tournaments is our job.

4. Under your calculations, there should not be $450 sent to CFC. There was a $200 minimum and $400 Maximum. This is to encourage places that have large tournaments while not risking the loss of lots of money.

5. For this kind of tournament I believe quality medals are important. These are not $1 apiece. As well ,the CFC has had a tendancy in the past to not sell itself very well so the medals used for this Program are the new CFC Medals. They're Canadian Made, and the Canadian Flag is visible. I will try to attach the image used but I don't yet have a photo.


As far as family is concerned, we are all very proud of the way your daughter is performing. I hope to see both of you at the CYCC inVictoria this year.

Ellen Nadeau

PS the site didn't let me upload the medal image, it exceeded the limit allowed.

Andrei Botez
02-12-2009, 07:37 PM
David,


I'm sure that Ellen will have a more complete answer but the fee of $6 per player is not a rating fee. It covers the expenses of the package that the CFC is providing to the organizers, including medals etc.

In the post I explained what the organizers are getting ("encourage") for those $6/player I did not say that $6 is the rating fee, what I did say is:

In this $6 is included the rating fee.




You also make a number of statements about parents and their willingness to spend money supporting their children't activities. I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am curious as to how you reached these conclusions. What programs are your children enrolled in and what child related events have you organized to reach these conclusions? I have three boys and my experience is very different.

A straight answer will be: "I am teaching chess for kids 4 days a week, I am part of the organizing parents group in Vancouver (we organize 90% of all CFC and CMA events),and more then that. I am also a chess dad (my children are active chess players. I am in contact with the great majority of the chess parents in BC, my opinion is based on their remarks and also on the remarks of many of the top Canadian chess players parents.

Now please be kind and tell us about your experience as a chess dad.


Are you planning on running a YCC tournament? If not, let's start a different thread to debate fee structures and leave this thread to the purpose it was created for, to discuss YCC events with interested organizers.

Like I already mentioned I am part of the parents comity in Vancouver area. This comity together with the BC Junior Coordinator is organizing the BC-YCC event for many years (except when it was in Victoria), so thread is exactly were I am interested to post.

Thanks
Andrei

Andrei Botez
02-12-2009, 07:53 PM
Hi Ellen,

Thanks for reply, we will see each other in Victoria (are you driving all the way?).

You are right, it was a maximum of $400 so my calculation was wrong. If I calculate the cost for $400, the medal price will be around $10. As a organizer will be cheaper to buy trophies instead of those medals, and as you know the kids like them more. Is the package created to help CFC financialy or to encourage TD's and organizers?

Also, when you mention YCC, are you referring to provincial finals (maximum 10) or in general about any CYCC qualifier (ex North Ontario)?

Andrei

Ellen Nadeau
02-12-2009, 08:36 PM
Hi Andrei,

It will be a funny trip this summer. Emmanuel is playing in the CYCC and 3 other children will go to the Canadian Open in Edmonton - this leaves one...

Don't just count the medals in your calculations; your cost is way off. I repeat, the CFC is not making nor losing money with this program. We want to promote chess, in my case, youth chess, at the same time, we do not have a surplus of money. We have to operate as close to revenue-neutral as we can. Did you know that to hold a YCC in previous years, organizers were supposed to send $7 per player to the CFC($10 if not a CFC member)?
When developing the program I wanted to REWARD those who ran YCC's previously by reducing their costs, and encourage new organizers.

You perceive well that YCC are not limited to one per province. We have had that attitude in the past and finally, most of the participants were within one hour's drive from a YCC. This means that over the last few years, about 3 provinces have participated in the YCC's each year. This is not good for national youth chess development. We have to get the rest of Canada on board so this means tournaments in major centers around the country. We need to have tournaments where the kids are, not limited to 1 place in a huge province. In Northern Ontario, thanks to the dedication of John Rutherford, we managed to get a lot of kids involved; initially not very competitive but getting stronger. These kids would not be in organized chess otherwise.

Canada has to find ways to generate players. We benefit from other countries training (teachers, good players) but we have to organize chess culture and that takes a lot of promoting.

One more point: are we trying to get Larry? I was told a few times by provincial organizers that they felt fidelity to CMA. Great. Do we cover everywhere; do we have enough organized chess? I speak for myself, not the Executive, but if any collaboration can be made with CMA and it helps develop chess, helps kids, great! The more complicated question is how - I suspect that Larry might be able to find solutions with us on this.

Ellen

Christopher Mallon
02-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Here's the picture of a medal Ellen was trying to show.http://www.chesscanada.info/34663.jpg

David Lavin
02-12-2009, 10:05 PM
I'm a hockey and baseball dad. On Friday I leave at 6 am to drive to Montreal for a tournament. We all do more for our kids than we do for ourselves. I have spent more money going to my kids tournaments than on my vacation.

My point is that most paretns are less price sensitive, and will make more sacrifices for their children than for themselves. For that reason, I think that $35 or so to enter teh YCC is not unreasonable. Of course, if a child really can't afford to play, concessions can and should be made.

When you compare the cost of a YCC tournament to the cost of most other children's activities it is clear that chess is still a bargain.

Ken Craft
02-13-2009, 08:23 AM
You're right, David. My soon to be 7 year old has just taken up curling. Although relatively inexpensive now, I expect I'll be shelling out a fair bit of cash if he decides to stick with it in the long haul.
Secondly, I laud the steps that Ellen and the executive are taking to revamp youth chess.

Valer Eugen Demian
02-13-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm a hockey and baseball dad. On Friday I leave at 6 am to drive to Montreal for a tournament. We all do more for our kids than we do for ourselves. I have spent more money going to my kids tournaments than on my vacation.

My point is that most paretns are less price sensitive, and will make more sacrifices for their children than for themselves. For that reason, I think that $35 or so to enter teh YCC is not unreasonable. Of course, if a child really can't afford to play, concessions can and should be made.

When you compare the cost of a YCC tournament to the cost of most other children's activities it is clear that chess is still a bargain.

Hi David,

I find it funny (and also a bit sad) you don't recognize Andrei, the father of WCM Alexandra Botez who represented Canada at quite a few international events... ;)
The Executive should be able to do a better job recognizing their supporters across the country, or at least those supporters at national and international level.

As long as a tournament is not going to qualify for anything, or in other words there is no performance filter all the way up to CYCC, you will have a very tough time convincing the most dedicated parent to spend money on it. Please observe I did not mention any amount, so the $35 value is of lesser importance at this moment in time!

Thank you

Hi Ken,

In my opinion youth chess is in pretty good shape, so I am not sure why it needs "revamping"?!...

Thank you

Ellen Nadeau
02-13-2009, 06:44 PM
Hello Mr. Demian,

In defence of David, he must have spent as many hours working on CFC related issues this year (unfortunately not pleasantly in the realm of getting to know all our star players) as with his full time job.

You surprise me with your evaluation that youth chess is in good shape. When I see statistics of involvement across the country, I see reason to be concerned. There are many countries which are so far ahead of us in Youth development - we have lots of room for improvement, one step at a time.
I welcome feedback, but most of all, lets see everyone interested in Youth Chess pulling together.

I am a bit perplexed as well because it sounds as if you find that the Yourh Coordinator of the CFC should not waste time promoting and encouraging Canadian Youth chess. Should I start promoting curling tournaments? No! I want to see a lot more children benefitting from organized chess. I ask for help.

Ellen Nadeau

Jason Lohner
02-13-2009, 06:56 PM
Hello Mr. Demian,

In defence of David, he must have spent as many hours working on CFC related issues this year (unfortunately not pleasantly in the realm of getting to know all our star players) as with his full time job.

You surprise me with your evaluation that youth chess is in good shape. When I see statistics of involvement across the country, I see reason to be concerned. There are many countries which are so far ahead of us in Youth development - we have lots of room for improvement, one step at a time.
I welcome feedback, but most of all, lets see everyone interested in Youth Chess pulling together.

I am a bit perplexed as well because it sounds as if you find that the Yourh Coordinator of the CFC should not waste time promoting and encouraging Canadian Youth chess. Should I start promoting curling tournaments? No! I want to see a lot more children benefitting from organized chess. I ask for help.

Ellen Nadeau

Chess is doing just fine in Canada, just go to any online server and see how many Canadians are playing. Just because the CFC is not doing well does not mean that chess is struggling.

Erik Malmsten
02-13-2009, 08:29 PM
Thanks for posting the pic. It is a great medal. And is the other side the same?

I guess the advantage of not having a year in it is that the medals can be used for several years.

Is the logo on the medal going to be also used on t-shirts?

Ellen Nadeau
02-13-2009, 09:29 PM
Hi Erik,

The medal is blank on the backside like most medals. And yes a year would limit the period of time it can be used.

For the polo shirts there is a slightly modified logo that I think is pretty sharp. It is the Logo used for the WYCC team t-shirts in 2008. The difference is that there is a sphere with chess squares and pieces on it. There is still a clear Maple Leaf in the background. The reasoning behind the logo was to send off our Canadian Players onto the world stage with a clear Canadian identity but linked to the World of Chess. The YCC organizers would receive a polo shirt with this because they are part of the whole process to send our Canadian players to the World Youth Chess Championship. They are part of the Team.

I will try to upload the image, if it doesn't work I will send it to Chris and ask him to post it on the site.

Ellen

Ellen Nadeau
02-14-2009, 10:07 AM
Jason I have been thinking about your position and have a few comments.

1. There are regions in Canada which never have a tournament.

2. There are regions that can not afford equipement, in fact the CFC participated in a donation to a Reserve School on James Bay because their school burned down 3 years ago and they could not afford to replace chess sets.

3. I was involved with international tournaments where some emerging countries and third world countries put more resources and energy into their chess teams than we did.

4. There are countries (smaller, richer, poorer) where if you ask the first 50 people you meet, to name a Grandmaster from their country, 48 would be able to. Try this in Canada and I would be happy if 2 could name a Canadian Grandmaster.

You are satisfied with status quo, I think the chess culture can be improved tremendously.

Ellen

Jason Lohner
02-14-2009, 08:34 PM
Jason I have been thinking about your position and have a few comments.

1. There are regions in Canada which never have a tournament.

2. There are regions that can not afford equipement, in fact the CFC participated in a donation to a Reserve School on James Bay because their school burned down 3 years ago and they could not afford to replace chess sets.

3. I was involved with international tournaments where some emerging countries and third world countries put more resources and energy into their chess teams than we did.

4. There are countries (smaller, richer, poorer) where if you ask the first 50 people you meet, to name a Grandmaster from their country, 48 would be able to. Try this in Canada and I would be happy if 2 could name a Canadian Grandmaster.

You are satisfied with status quo, I think the chess culture can be improved tremendously.

Ellen

#1 an OTB tournament, I have no doubt, but I bet there is nowhere where people in Canada do not play online. I live in a town that just reached 16,000 people. I know far more people who play chess online than my local club.

#2 This is good to hear that the CFC is doing something to help these people.

#3 Canada tends to be like a lot of rich countries. We tend to not participate in activities that are cheap. Look at hockey, the equipment costs THOUSANDS of dollars, wont see many poor countries participating. Now chess... instead of buying a cheap board, we spend thousands on nice fancy computers so we can play. I would say your average Canadian spends FAR more money on chess per person than almost most countries. It just doesn't go to the CFC or national teams. It gets spent in equipment, computers, books, software etc...

#4 All depends on the people you ask. Chess is a game that is generally played online with little interaction between the players (In Canada)so yes, I wouldn't doubt that your average Canadian chess player knows little about play at the highest level. People just want to have fun. Heck if you asked me and the people I know I doubt any of us could name any of the Canadian HOCKEY national team players (I know I could care less... as long as there are no Leaf players I'm happy!).

What I am trying to get at is that Chess as a game is doing just fine in Canada. I played on the Chessworld server (UK based) and of the 100,000+ people on this one correspondence server Canada was ranked 4th in memberships. Not too bad for a nation that is not considered a 'chess nation'.
I'm pretty sure that the other servers out there have an equally large amount of Canadians playing on them.

The CFC has to realize that times have changed. The 'status quo' has changed, but people are still playing chess in Canada. They have just moved to a different venue.

**Edit added **
I just checked one of the Chessworld tournaments I am in and 5/32 players are Canadian... pretty impressive

I am the only CFC member of the 5 although one was back in 1988 http://www.chess.ca/memberinfo_archives.asp?CFCN=106366

Chessworld tournament - http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/Tournament_Knockout_View.asp?TournamentID=115139

Canadian players
http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/showplayerdetails.asp?userid=398420
http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/showplayerdetails.asp?userid=37128
http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/showplayerdetails.asp?userid=356270
http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/showplayerdetails.asp?userid=471598
http://www.chessworld.net/chessclubs/showplayerdetails.asp?userid=112114

Andrei Botez
02-14-2009, 10:41 PM
Hi David,

I find it funny (and also a bit sad) you don't recognize Andrei, ...

To be honest, if the "CFC President" was not under his name, I would have hard time to recognize him too.

Valer Eugen Demian
02-16-2009, 02:23 PM
Hello Mr. Demian,

In defence of David, he must have spent as many hours working on CFC related issues this year (unfortunately not pleasantly in the realm of getting to know all our star players) as with his full time job.

You surprise me with your evaluation that youth chess is in good shape. When I see statistics of involvement across the country, I see reason to be concerned. There are many countries which are so far ahead of us in Youth development - we have lots of room for improvement, one step at a time.
I welcome feedback, but most of all, lets see everyone interested in Youth Chess pulling together.

I am a bit perplexed as well because it sounds as if you find that the Yourh Coordinator of the CFC should not waste time promoting and encouraging Canadian Youth chess. Should I start promoting curling tournaments? No! I want to see a lot more children benefitting from organized chess. I ask for help.

Ellen Nadeau

Hi Ellen,

There is no doubt there are several countries ahead of us in youth development. Do you know why that is? It is because chess is recognized as a sport and supported as such. I have been advocating this for a long time - push for having chess recognized as a sport in Canada - but people in general and Youth Coordinators in particular fail to see this is the only way the current situation could be improved! Given how much "help" and "involvement" exist now, youth development IS in good shape. Asking for more from the same people over and over again is not the way to go!...

We are pulling together here in BC for a long time. It might be the huge geographical distance between us why you don't see it; however we are live on the web if you want to check out what we are doing here for years now. Please do visit our webpages! If you cannot find them, I can help...

I did not say you should not promote youth chess. What I said is it seems pointless to organize another stand alone tournament, without any performace criteria to qualify to and from. Stand alone tournaments are doomed to failure and little support unless there's a lot of money involved in them (meaning sponsors). If you truly want to do something valuable, re-organize the whole tournament system from the grounds up. Will give you an example:

Chess and Math runs in BC the following:
- several regionals to qualify for provincial
- provincial to qualify for nationals: you play here only if you qualify from regionals or get a wild card
Participation is over 200 players!

CFC runs in BC:
- provincial: no qualification required to play here, nor it matters if you participate as you can go directly to CYCC if you wish
Participation is around 70-80 players at best!

As a CFC supporter for 15 years (since coming to Canada), the above hurts!... You must see the difference between the two. This is what I am saying!

Thank you,
Eugen

P.S. We can talk a lot more in particular if you truly are interested in our feedback... ;)

David Lavin
02-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Hi Valer:

Can I ask you to suggest how you would structure the YCC events and how best to integrte them into the CYCC?

What do you think about going with Ellen's suggestions this year, see what happens, and modify it next year with everyone's input?

Valer Eugen Demian
02-17-2009, 01:54 PM
Hi Valer:

Can I ask you to suggest how you would structure the YCCeevents and how best t ointegrte them into he CYCC?

What do you think about going with Ellen's suggestions this year, see what happens, and modify it next year with everyone's input?

Hi David,

Thanks for your answer!

Regarding the title of your message, I think you should be more positive when receiving input on proposed plans, especially when that input comes from people who are doing the grassroots work and deal with chess parents and kids on a weekly basis for years!...

Going to your questions:
a) I would recognize Chess and Math has captured the school system support across the country (schools actually respond positive to that cycle regionals, etc) and would do something about it: partnership with Chess and Math, others. The problem is right now the CYCC cycle has a much lesser value in the eyes of teachers, so participation in BC is as I mentioned: roughly 33% of the other cycle.

IMO this is more important that coming up with new tournaments such as YCC, or the foundation of a building needs more attention than its Xth floor.

b) Given the desire to go ahead with this tournament regardless, it would be good to have a clear purpose for it. Example: CYCC qualifies for team Canada and WYCC. YCC does what?

c) The CYCC cycle could link YCC to provincial final placings such as (example):
- top X places qualify for CYCC
- following Y places for YCC
There are several other ways you can combine YCC into the cycle based on its purpose (see point "b" above)

d) You can go ahead with this suggestion, but don't expect a great participation, so the obvious question could be: is it better to have this tournament anyway, or should we prepare this first meantime fixing other critical points?

Thanks,
Eugen

David Lavin
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
Hi Eugen-- I think you misunderstand the heading of my last message. "No one is as smart as everyone" implies that we want as much input as possible.

My personal feeling is that time is running out and something is better than nothing. the more we do now, the better the events will be next time around. I do agree completely that there needs to be a clear integration between the YCC and the CYCC.

Egidijus Zeromskis
02-17-2009, 02:34 PM
Chess and Math runs in BC the following:
Participation is over 200 players!

CFC runs in BC:
Participation is around 70-80 players at best!

May you say that these tournaments has similar event format, i.e., one or multi-day event? I have impression that the CnM makes a one-day rapid (15-30 per game) chess event, while the CFC runs a multi-day event with a longer time control. Thus attracting different numbers of participants.

Bob Armstrong
02-17-2009, 06:10 PM
Hi Egis:

I think you are right on this, and the point is a good one. And CMA works on class grade in school, and CFC on rating class, so opponents will be different.

I think it is good that juniors have a variety to choose from - some CMA events, and some CFC events. I don't really see why one should have to exclude the other.

From someone not directly involved in youth chess, admittedly.

Bob

Ken Craft
02-18-2009, 08:18 AM
The CFC should consider outsourcing the running of the CYCC cycle to the CMA. Back to the future.

Valer Eugen Demian
02-18-2009, 03:09 PM
May you say that these tournaments has similar event format, i.e., one or multi-day event? I have impression that the CnM makes a one-day rapid (15-30 per game) chess event, while the CFC runs a multi-day event with a longer time control. Thus attracting different numbers of participants.

Hi Egis, Bob and Ken,

Yes, the formats are different: one day competition and 30 minutes games for CMA, while CFC runs a 2 days competition with longer time controls. Yet in my experience the problem does not lie here. The school system runs several other sport events in multidays formats.

Yes, CMA runs their events by grade (however if some grades do not have enough participants, they get combined and this makes those combined sections very similar with the CFC format).
CFC runs their groups by age (and not rating level!...) and in the light of the above observation on combined grades, I see a lot of similarities with CMA.

While it looks on the surface the two organizations are running different things, the truth is deep down they do more or less the same thing. The problem lies - as I already said - with the fact CMA has a solid relationship with the school program, while CFC has ignored this aspect at best.

Personally I do not agree CFC should outsource our cycle to CMA. Do not want to get into a flaming discussion saying the CMA cycle attacks and erodes CFC at the roots, but say something must be done to fix this situation. It is not clear why CMA would want to have a mutual beneficial relationship with CFC and somehow enter in an agreement, but as a CFC promoter it is hard to go by yourself into schools (with little to no official backing from CFC) and convince them to participate at our cycle as well.

You cannot ignore an aspect of your activity or fail to adress existing problems - basically CMA and CFC are competing for the same mass of school players, being obvious for the time being which side is clearly ahead -hoping that other measures will have the desired results.

Going back to the original ideas we need to provide adequate help at the grassroots level. Some CFC promoters work with youngsters, others with adults. What all of them need is more help, involvement and good decisions. Private organizations are not the only good answer for chess in this country and it is really frustrating to get this message from back East over and over again!...

Thank you
Eugen

Ken Craft
02-19-2009, 10:50 AM
The CFC used to outsource the running of the CYCC to the CMA. My memory was that it was successful. The CFC ceased doing this because they thought they could make more money running it themselves despite the fact that the CMA has expertise in running youth events. It is time to partner with the group with resources and expertise, the CMA.

Andrei Botez
02-20-2009, 02:24 AM
It is time to partner with the group with resources and expertise, the CMA.
Here is the same parents comity who are running all year CFC events and the 3 out of 4 CMA yearly events. Just watch this year new BC-YCC format.

Patrick McDonald
02-21-2009, 01:03 PM
The OYCC (Ontario Youth Chess Championships) are, this May, going to be run for the 6th or 7th year in it's current format (I will have to look that up to see how many years I have run it).

The format has proven to be very Popular with the players and families.

Basically it is positioned as a Bursary event not a qualifier event. Winners of the various sections at a minimum have their entire entry fee to the CYCC covered. In most years, first has had the entry plus something to help with the travel expenses to the CYCC and second has had their full entry to the CYCC and third has had a portion of their entry to the CYCC covered!

The entry for the OYCC as a highlight event has not been a concern at anywhere from $55 to $70 entry.

The higher entry not only raises the funds to offer these bursaries to the winners, but also makes the event to be seen as a true Provincial Championship.

I don't see much value in submitting the higher fees to the CFC, (in some years, I did not even get the medals out of the CFC) but I do support that the CFC needs to raise the funds to send our WYCC team to the Worlds and so see it as just that.