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View Full Version : 7. 2013-H Membership requirements for FIDE-rated events (Bond/McKim) -commentary only



Michael von Keitz
09-30-2012, 06:08 PM
Replace the wording of Section 7, p. 790h with the following: "All Canadian players who compete in a FIDE registered event must be members in good standing of the CFC, or possess a valid tournament passport prior to the start of the tournament."

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-01-2012, 11:39 AM
Replace the wording of Section 7, p. 790h with the following: "All Canadian players who compete in a FIDE registered event must be members in good standing of the CFC, or possess a valid tournament passport prior to the start of the tournament."

a valid tournament passport

What is that? The Handbook gives 0 (zero) search results.

Bob Armstrong
10-01-2012, 11:58 AM
Hi Hal/Fred:

I agree with Egis - I don't recognize this term.

Is a tournament playing fee going to be acceptable? Or are you trying to prohibit it for FIDE-rated events?

Bob A

Christopher Mallon
10-01-2012, 05:12 PM
Hi Hal/Fred:

I agree with Egis - I don't recognize this term.

Is a tournament playing fee going to be acceptable? Or are you trying to prohibit it for FIDE-rated events?

Bob A

The TPF was originally referred to as a tournament passport.

I can't see the existing wording because the CFC site is all screwy for me right now trying to read the handbook.

http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110&stc=1&d=1349125921

Halldor P. Palsson
10-01-2012, 05:30 PM
What are we doing here?

Is this motion an accommodation for the CFC/FQE agreement?

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-02-2012, 09:49 AM
I can't see the existing wording because the CFC site is all screwy for me right now trying to read the handbook.

If you used Firefox as a browser, switch to other one (chome, IE) just to read the Handbook. The issue is with a very huge handbook file and Firefox inability to handle huge files.
It would better to split a handbook into sections as before.

As for the motion:
http://www.chess.ca/membership-rates talks about "Non-member tournament fees"
If the motion would pass, the mentioned webpage should be updated too, and the somewhere a description of the Passport must be given.

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 10:19 AM
The motion clarifies that someone can play in a FIDE rated event with a tournament membership (yes, yes, I know this isn't the right name .... but we are all having trouble coming up with an acceptable one - on the CFC web site membership page, I called it a non-member tournament fee).

Pierre Dénommée
10-02-2012, 01:10 PM
How many Non-member tournament fees did we collect last year? How many of those were in FIDE rated tournaments.

I do not see the usefulness of the motion because nobody can play a CFC rated tournament without a membership and all FIDE rated competitions must also be CFC rated.

Do we want to say that a Canadian player cannot play in a FIDE rated tournament anywhere in the world without a CFC membership?

Christopher Mallon
10-02-2012, 10:12 PM
Do we want to say that a Canadian player cannot play in a FIDE rated tournament anywhere in the world without a CFC membership?

Technically this is actually a FIDE rule, that someone must be a member in good standing of their national federation.

Bob Armstrong
10-02-2012, 10:16 PM
It makes sense to me that if a Canadian wants to play internationally under the Canadian flag ( = member of the Canadian Federation ), then he should have a valid CFC membership.

Bob A

Pierre Dénommée
10-02-2012, 10:48 PM
Then we should enforce it.

If a non-member plays in a Foreign country, does FIDE notifies us? I know at least one case of a Quebec player that did play his first FIDE rated tournament in the US. On the rating list, he has been entered as a US player. If a foreign organizer does not do his job and enters all players as resident of his country, how can we discover that?


Technically this is actually a FIDE rule, that someone must be a member in good standing of their national federation.

Christopher Mallon
10-03-2012, 06:33 AM
Then we should enforce it.

If a non-member plays in a Foreign country, does FIDE notifies us? I know at least one case of a Quebec player that did play his first FIDE rated tournament in the US. On the rating list, he has been entered as a US player. If a foreign organizer does not do his job an enters all players as resident of his country, how can we discover that?

I don't really know the answers here. It was a much easier rule to enforce when FIDE-rated meant over 2200 and the numbers were relatively small. How are we as organizers here supposed to be able to know if every foreign player who shows up is actually a member in good standing of their federation?

Hal? Thoughts?

Vladimir Drkulec
10-05-2012, 11:06 AM
I think that this is a reasonable rule for FIDE tournaments in Canada. I don't think that it is a reasonable rule for foreign FIDE tournaments. If someone moves to England or Budapest and wants to continue to play chess then you are demanding that he or she pays a CFC membership in order to continue to play chess. That doesn't seem fair to me. I doubt that this rule is enforceable. If it is not enforceable it should not be created.

It also creates the obvious question of the Canadian immigrants who play in our FIDE tournaments. We don't check for current membership in other Federations. Anton Kovalyov is currently somewhat unwillingly a member of the Argentine federation. Shall he be required to maintain his Argentine membership to play in one of our FIDE tournaments?

I have voted against this proposal.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-05-2012, 11:22 AM
I think that this is a reasonable rule for FIDE tournaments in Canada. I don't think that it is a reasonable rule for foreign FIDE tournaments. If someone moves to England or Budapest and wants to continue to play chess then you are demanding that he or she pays a CFC membership in order to continue to play chess. That doesn't seem fair to me. I doubt that this rule is enforceable. If it is not enforceable it should not be created.

It also creates the obvious question of the Canadian immigrants who play in our FIDE tournaments. We don't check for current membership in other Federations. Anton Kovalyov is currently somewhat unwillingly a member of the Argentine federation. Shall he be required to maintain his Argentine membership to play in one of our FIDE tournaments?

I have voted against this proposal.

imho, the motion deals with CANADIAN tournaments which go through the CFC office to FIDE. Thus most of your comments are out of a scope of this motion.

Vladimir Drkulec
10-05-2012, 11:37 AM
imho, the motion deals with CANADIAN tournaments which go through the CFC office to FIDE. Thus most of your comments are out of a scope of this motion.

The wording of the motion should be more precise then. The discussion surrounding the motion clearly indicated that my interpretation that it applied to all FIDE play was shared by at least two other governors.

If it was clear that the motion applied to only Canadian submitted FIDE events, I would have voted for it.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-05-2012, 12:20 PM
The wording of the motion should be more precise then. The discussion surrounding the motion clearly indicated that my interpretation that it applied to all FIDE play was shared by at least two other governors.

You and other should read the whole 790.

As for the whole world, as Chris mentioned, FIDE gave power to go after emigrated players http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=81&view=article

13.0. Inclusion in the Rating list.
13.1 To be included in the FRL or FIDE Rapidplay Rating list, a player must be a member of a national chess Federation which is a member of FIDE. That is, the Federation must not be temporarily or permanently excluded from membership.
13.2 It is the responsibility of national Federations to inform FIDE if players should not be included in the FRL, FRRL.
13.3 Any player excluded from either rating list because he is unable to obtain membership of a national Federation, may apply to FIDE for special dispensation to be included.

On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.

John Coleman
10-05-2012, 12:48 PM
On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.From my point of view, it's more the other way round. Before I became a Canadian, I played chess (though not FIDE-rated) as a member of the CFC. I have never been a member of the English chess federation, and if I played in a FIDE-rated tournament after moving to Canada, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get an ECF membership.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-05-2012, 01:05 PM
From my point of view, it's more the other way round. Before I became a Canadian, I played chess (though not FIDE-rated) as a member of the CFC. I have never been a member of the English chess federation, and if I played in a FIDE-rated tournament after moving to Canada, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get an ECF membership.

I don't think that 13.2 was used ever :)

Vladimir Drkulec
10-05-2012, 01:21 PM
You and other should read the whole 790.

It would be helpful in future motions like this one if there was a link to the section or at least the document that was being amended.



As for the whole world, as Chris mentioned, FIDE gave power to go after emigrated players http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=81&view=article


On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.

One that I can think of. You don't have to be abroad. There are FIDE rated tournaments in Detroit these days which is much closer than Kitchener or Guelph where the next closest FIDE action could be found. If a player is not a CFC member, I can assure you they are not checking for a current CFC membership, only USCF. Once a player plays in a tournament are we going to go to the bother of going to FIDE and have his result annulled? I don't think so. If we did, one lawsuit in a a foreign venue would certainly more than negate any incremental revenue you would earn from such a practice.

One should also look at basic fairness. We are not providing any services to these players who play in foreign FIDE events and so we should not be asking to earn any revenue.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Once a player plays in a tournament are we going to go to the bother of going to FIDE and have his result annulled? I don't think so. If we did, one lawsuit in a a foreign venue would certainly more than negate any incremental revenue you would earn from such a practice.

One should also look at basic fairness. We are not providing any services to these players who play in foreign FIDE events and so we should not be asking to earn any revenue.

The FIDE rules say about expelling from the rating LIST, not annulling tournament results.

imho, it is a privilege to be CAN (or other country) on the list. Playing abroad may give some advantage: for norms, an "international" status. On other hand the national federation fee to FIDE depends on the players number in the rating list (is it limited to an active only?). Nevertheless there not many non-CFC Fide (active) players anyway that to bother too much.

Christopher Mallon
10-05-2012, 04:24 PM
One should also look at basic fairness. We are not providing any services to these players who play in foreign FIDE events and so we should not be asking to earn any revenue.

We may not be providing any services but we DO pay a fee to FIDE for having them active and if we did not pay that fee, NO Canadians would be allowed to play in FIDE-rated events.