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View Full Version : 7. 2013-E Modify waived junior memberships (Bond/Gillanders) - commentary only



Michael von Keitz
09-30-2012, 06:04 PM
Modify Section 7, p. 732 by adding after "(tournaments or matches)" the following: "with the exception of the CYCC, Canadian Junior, or any FIDE-rated tournament."

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-01-2012, 11:34 AM
Please include the full text. It will save 50 people to go and to read the handbook.

Lyle Craver
10-01-2012, 11:39 AM
The text of paragraph 732 is as follows:

732. Membership. All players in a rated event must be CFC members for the inclusive dates of play. The CFC membership requirement is waived for Junior events (tournaments or matches). An event is considered Junior for the purposes of this section if all the players meet the age requirements of the World Junior of the year following the year in which the event ends. [Updated; Keshet/Stockhausen 1999]

The entire section can be found at http://www.chess.ca/handbook#section-7

Bob Armstrong
10-01-2012, 11:53 AM
I will support this motion.

Bob A

Vladimir Drkulec
10-01-2012, 12:38 PM
I take it that this is proposed to avoid any ambiguity with regard to the membership requirements for players taking part in CYCC. I was under the impression that there is no ambiguity as there was something in the regulations which already clearly stated that a CFC membership was required for CYCC.

I will be supporting this motion.

Christopher Mallon
10-01-2012, 05:13 PM
It removes the ambiguity of the CYCC and Junior, and adds the requirement for FIDE events (which in fact is required by FIDE in any case). I support this.

Marcus Wilker
10-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Apart from the proposed modification to this article, can I take this opportunity to ask a question about interpreting the "dates of play" phrase.

Specifically: In a one-round-per-week club event, is it possible for a player whose membership expires at some point during the tournament to withdraw before that point withoit renewing her CFC, or is she required to be a member for the dates of play of the tournament? In other words does "dates of play" refer to the dates when the player is involved, or is it required that her membership be valid right to the end of the tournament? The question is relevant for our club, because we allow nightly drop-in play from a club membership point of view, but we need to know how far in advance we need to check CFC expiry before we allow a player to make a one-night drop-in entry into an ongoing tournament.

Pierre Dénommée
10-01-2012, 09:45 PM
I am in favour of the motion.

Les Bunning
10-02-2012, 02:09 AM
I support this motion
Les Bunning

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 07:38 AM
Apart from the proposed modification to this article, can I take this opportunity to ask a question about interpreting the "dates of play" phrase.

Specifically: In a one-round-per-week club event, is it possible for a player whose membership expires at some point during the tournament to withdraw before that point withoit renewing her CFC, or is she required to be a member for the dates of play of the tournament? In other words does "dates of play" refer to the dates when the player is involved, or is it required that her membership be valid right to the end of the tournament? The question is relevant for our club, because we allow nightly drop-in play from a club membership point of view, but we need to know how far in advance we need to check CFC expiry before we allow a player to make a one-night drop-in entry into an ongoing tournament.

All players in a tournament must be CFC members for the entire duration of the tournament or else purchase a one-time tournament fee.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-02-2012, 08:45 AM
All players in a tournament must be CFC members for the entire duration of the tournament...

I read that there was (is) a practice to organize tournaments where not all players were members. Those games with non-members were just ignored in the rating report.

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 09:29 AM
I read that there was (is) a practice to organize tournaments where not all players were members. Those games with non-members were just ignored in the rating report.

No that is not allowed.

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 09:33 AM
No that is not allowed.

Having said that .... if you are holding some kind of club event, as long as the games submitted for rating are between CFC members, there is really nothing anyone (ie CFC) can do about other games that weren't submitted. It makes for a messy crosstable with people receiving possibly multiple 0, 1/2, and 1 point byes.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-02-2012, 09:37 AM
No that is not allowed.

What are sanctions?

Ok. I see that no possible remedies exist at this moment.

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 10:29 AM
What are sanctions?

Ok. I see that no possible remedies exist at this moment.

Sanctions .... remedies .... ??

Is it really that difficult to have a tournament with only CFC members ?

Why not simply alternate between CFC tournaments and non-CFC tournaments? That is the model that many clubs use.

Bob Gillanders
10-02-2012, 12:05 PM
Having said that .... if you are holding some kind of club event, as long as the games submitted for rating are between CFC members, there is really nothing anyone (ie CFC) can do about other games that weren't submitted. It makes for a messy crosstable with people receiving possibly multiple 0, 1/2, and 1 point byes.

The Mississauga Chess Club has held a few club tournaments where CFC membership was optional. We were trying to keep everyone happy. I suspect that is what Egis is remembering. But as you say, only the games played between CFC members can be submitted to CFC for rating. That meant that I had to recreate SwissSys tournament files with only CFC players entered. So if a CFC player beat a non CFC player, the CFC crosstable shows a 1 point bye. Similarly a half point bye for a draw, and zero point bye for a loss. For the true complete crosstable, it is on the club website. Whereas, the corresponding crosstable on the CFC website looks ridiculous.

It was an experiment, it failed. We don't do that anymore.

IMHO, alternating between CFC and non CFC tournaments at the club would fail. Some members would avoid attending those weeks. A better option that we might try next would be a tournament with 2 sections (CFC and non CFC).

Fred McKim
10-02-2012, 12:15 PM
IMHO, alternating between CFC and non CFC tournaments at the club would fail. Some members would avoid attending those weeks. A better option that we might try next would be a tournament with 2 sections (CFC and non CFC).

Bob, from what I've seen you post, your club would work perfectly with rated and unrated sections.

I think that critical mass is probably about 30 players - that way you'll get enough to make sure you have at least a half dozen in each section.

Pierre Dénommée
10-02-2012, 01:45 PM
The only thing that the CFC can do is to refuse to rate the tournament.


What are sanctions?

Ok. I see that no possible remedies exist at this moment.

Egidijus Zeromskis
10-03-2012, 09:00 AM
It was an experiment, it failed. We don't do that anymore.

IMHO, alternating between CFC and non CFC tournaments at the club would fail. Some members would avoid attending those weeks. A better option that we might try next would be a tournament with 2 sections (CFC and non CFC).

Why did it fail? (just curious)

Our club plan to have regular CFC events, and non-rated blitz and rapid tournaments. We'll see how it goes.

Christopher Field
10-06-2012, 06:25 PM
I support this motion.
I would suggest adding provincial YCCs to the events which require membership.

Prizes in such championships involve travel costs, etc, for CYCC, and are supported by the respective provincial associations. Such funds ultimately come from membership fees collected.

Ellen Nadeau
10-07-2012, 08:34 PM
I would not support including Provincial YCC's as events needing CFC membership. The national events: Junior and CYCC are reasonable to keep the membership requirement.