From the Governors' Meeting: Porper Proposal

[Fred McKim]

In this thread we will conduct discussion concerning the Porper proposal for a Canadian Chess Team Championship. It is being conducted in the public forum to allow access to Edward Porper.

The plans were to hold a public discussion after the Governors' meeting in any case.

I would ask that non-Governors respect the purpose of this thread and wait until the conclusion of the meeting before joining the conversation.

[Fred McKim]

In February, 2010 Canada was hosting the 21st Winter Olympic Games. I was honoured to be at the time in Vancouver and witness an unprecedented triumph of our men and women who time after time sent the Maple Leaf to soar proudly high in the sky to the glory of our sport and country.

Canada had won an unparalleled for the Winter Games, the amount of 14 gold medals while our athletes medaled not only in such traditionally strong Canadian sports as ice-hockey and curling but almost in each and every of 15 sports represented in the Games program. Vancouver-2010 became a symbol of Canadian strength and creative potential, and I was left to wonder, why this potential has never as yet surfaced in the sport I happen to engage in. It goes without saying that the preposterous 39th spot our country occupies in the World Chess Countries Ranking does not even begin to reflect Canada's true ability and the amount of talent it possesses.

The last three months spent in my present capacity of the CFC Newsletter editor provided me with a much broader and more comprehensive picture of Canadian chess, and exposed what seems to be the root of the problem. Chess is a competitive sport, and it is only by regularly competing against strong opposition that one can consistently improve their playing strength. While preparing the "Across Canada" column, I got convinced that there is, in fact, no shortage of competition in Canadian chess – there are many tournaments, and some of them are pretty strong. The real problem hides in the word "regularly" as, apart from maybe in one or two most populous Eastern provinces, Canadian players get a chance to meet strong opponents but every now and then, at best. In other words, what Canadian chess really lacks, is an efficient structure.

One has but to cast a glance over the Atlantic Ocean to see how such a structure may look and work. European club competitions (leagues) attract top players from all over the world thus providing each of them with a glorious battlefield/hunting ground to hone their skills upon. Clubs are the very foundations of chess in Europe – as well as the backbone of any economic arrangement since stellar fields inevitably attract sponsors' and media's attention. In my opinion, this European model could, with very small alterations, be successfully planted into the Canadian soil.

[Fred McKim]

The league in question will consist of two Qualifiers (amateur level leagues) and the Championship (a master level league), in two stages.

[Fred McKim]

I – Qualifiers

Qualifiers are roughly geographical leagues. One of them will be open to teams representing either Ontario, Quebec or Atlantic Canada, while the other one will feature teams from BC, Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Any team willing to pay a participation fee of $200 per season and abide by the league rules, will be admitted to a corresponding league.

The teams in both leagues will compete in a Swiss tournament (5, 7 or 9 round – depending on the number of registered teams) to determine 12 teams entitled to progress to the Championship level.

Each team may register up to 10 players, while each match will be played on 4 boards. All Qualifier matches will be played online, one match on a given day. The duration of the whole competition is approximately 3 months (from September to December of any given year). League Online Rules will be provided in a separate addendum.

II – The Championship

This phase of the competition will be held in two stages. Stage 1, featuring the Eastern and Western Conferences defined above, may be seen as transitional because it will be played online as well, and abide by the same League Online Rules.

The 12 qualified teams from each League will compete in a Round-Robin tournament (11 rounds in each Conference) to determine 5 teams per Conference entitled to participate in the National Finals. Teams occupying spots 6 through 8 will preserve their place in the next year Conference while the last 4 teams from each Conference will be relegated back to the Qualifiers.

The Conference matches will be played on 6 boards while the team rosters will be increased up to 12 players (at least four of which should be also present in the earlier Qualifier’s roster).

The duration of the Conference stage will be between 3 and 4 months (3 clusters of either 4 or 3 rounds played presumably at the beginning of February, middle or end of March, beginning or middle of May).

At this stage, teams may be expected to exercise their right of inviting foreign titled players – yet at least 3 local players will be required to represent any given team in any given match.

III - The National Finals

This final event will take place in either July or August over-the-board (to provide for norm opportunities as well as for a feel of a "real" happening). 10 teams will compete in a 9-round Round-Robin tournament, the winner of which will be declared the Canadian Team Champion. Monetary rewards for the winning team and the medalists (as well as possible renumeration for the rest of the finalists) will be determined after further discussions.

It is assumed that the rules from the Brian Profit Canadian Chess League proposal could still be used for this Qualifier stage, although the two proposals are at this time, are in fact just that.

[Fred McKim]

Once given a realistic and attractive goal of manning a strong team and competing with dignity against worthy opponents nation-wide, Canadian chess clubs would gradually transform into independent bodies attractive for local sponsors (such as banks, insurance companies, etc) and therefore be able to enlist strong players (both local and even foreign – at least, from the American continent). All that will in a course of time boost the average level of Canadian chess and bring it where it belongs – namely, to the world elite.

Starting dates for league play will depend on the availability and contribution level of sponsors, but it is hoped that the first season would begin in Feb 2013. A decision concerning the go ahead for this date would have to be made by July 1st, 2012.

At present this League is looking for Canadian governors, organizers, players, who are willing to come forward and work on making this aim of a Canadian Elite Team Championship come to fruition. It is still believed that the Amateur League being proposed simultaneously can still co-exist and mutually profit from this venture.

Edward Porper

International Master

CCN Editor

December 2011

[Jonathan Berry]

It would be great to have a chess scene as strong as that of, say, France.

I see the proposed structure as a worthy goal. But starting from a situation where there is little (how long ago was the last Montreal - Toronto match? The most recent one I remember is Calgary vs. Saskatchewan) interprovincial inter-club activity, you have to be flexible with the numbers. You don't want to organize a "Qualfying" tournament where all entries qualify to the next round, for example. USCL has taken years to reach a similar level of participation, and USA has 8x the population of Canada.

I would like to introduce the idea of a different structure, based upon participation by Provincial Associations. Since CFC has given up the idea of pushing chess as a sport to be eligible for federal support, it remains a recreation, which is a provincial responsibility. Chess has received provincial support most notably in Alberta, Ontario and Québec, but also in British Columbia (a looooong time ago) and probably elsewhere too. New wine, new wineskins.

In one scenario, championships would be held on a provincial basis. For, say, PEI, they'd be likely to choose face-to-face competition in one place at one time. Larger provinces might prefer other methods, such as elimination matches, or league play, or online. In the late 1970s, at least one Ontario Team Championship took place via telephone. Phone is not necessary anymore (hmm, smartphone apps with the matches held during free evening / weekend calling times?), but it is an indication that chess organization even in the ancient past was creative in dealing with our vast distances.

Traditionally, national chess championships in Canada were held on a "regional" basis with 6 regions (on one hand the Atlantic Provinces were combined; on the other, Manitoba and Saskatchewan). This would fit perfectly with a Western and Eastern final each of four teams: the three regional reps, plus the home team. Tried and tested in Hockey with the Memorial Cup. Then a national final.

I realize that a team championship organized on a provincial basis would not have the clarity of the Porper proposal. Fans would be wondering if the teams were representing the province rather than the club. Interprovincial eligibility rules would need to be hammered out. "Back in the day", our club entered two teams, which finished first and second, into the Eastern Ontario Chess League. We did that to make the competition more equitable, no matches with Masters playing "C" class opponents. But then the OCA decided that the team in the Ontario Final had to be the team that won the league; you couldn't recombine the club teams. Not being clear from the start about the rules can be divisive, and here you have an extra level of competition. It's not impossible, but care is required.

[Edward Porper]

- You don't want to organize a "Qualfying" tournament where all entries qualify to the next round, for example.
________________________________________

Hence the very first practical step might be to find out how many clubs from all over Canada would be interested to participate. Besides, I was advised that having a preliminary list of the sort - even better, with some names of the prominent players that expressed a conditional interest in such a competition - would greatly facilitate my eventual communication with potential sponsors.

[Pierre Dénommée]

Since CFC has given up the idea of pushing chess as a sport to be eligible for federal support, it remains a recreation, which is a provincial responsibility. Chess has received provincial support most notably in Alberta, Ontario and Québec, but also in British Columbia (a looooong time ago) and probably elsewhere too. New wine, new wineskins.

In Quebec, Sports receive a lot of support from the provincial Government. Sports is not entirely a Federal responsibility. A Quebec Sport Federation receive more then a recreation Federation but the Sport Federation must be efficiently run. Poorly managed Sports Federation receive less money then a recreation. The system for Sports and Recreation are completely different. Apart from the money given to run the Federation, there is a separate fund for organizing competitions, another fund for certifying arbiters and coaches. For large Federations, being a Sport is much better, bur for small ones, it may be better to be a Recreation.

I do not believe that the CFC has given up on being a Sport. It is just that as long as the Conservative are in Ottawa, this is not possible.

[Pierre Dénommée]

Here are the FIDE regulations


1.43 Federations ofopponents
At least two federations other than that of the title applicant must be included, except for 1.43a-1.43e. Even then see 1.43f.
1.43a
The finals (but not preliminaries) of national men’s championships and also national women’s championships.
1.43b National team championships.

There is no exclusion for the preliminaries of Team Championship but you should ask Hal if the results will be pooled as it is the case with Zonal tournaments. If the results are pooled, FIDE will rate the Qualifiers, The Championship and the Final as a single tournament: the Canadian Team Championship. This would ruin all norm chances.

In France, the teams are promoted and demoted for the next year cycle, so this is not considered a preliminary.

[Edward Porper]

It is intended as a preliminary - and teams should be promoted/demoted.
Besides, those preliminaries will be played online - nothing to do with norms. The Finals are planned OTB - 10 teams, 9 rounds which should be sufficient to pursue a norm. That possibility was an important consideration for me from the start...

[Pierre Dénommée]

I – Qualifiers

Qualifiers are roughly geographical leagues. One of them will be open to teams representing either Ontario, Quebec or Atlantic Canada, while the other one will feature teams from BC, Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Any team willing to pay a participation fee of $200 per season and abide by the league rules, will be admitted to a corresponding league.

The teams in both leagues will compete in a Swiss tournament (5, 7 or 9 round – depending on the number of registered teams) to determine 12 teams entitled to progress to the Championship level.

I would not mentioned that it will be a Swiss. The choice of a suitable type of competition cannot be made before the exact number of teams in a League is known. Depending on the number of teams, we might get a chance to test the Molter system in Canada.

Furthermore, the rule shall take in consideration the fact that we may not get the 12 teams that we wants.




Each team may register up to 10 players, while each match will be played on 4 boards. All Qualifier matches will be played online, one match on a given day. The duration of the whole competition is approximately 3 months (from September to December of any given year). League Online Rules will be provided in a separate addendum.

II – The Championship

This phase of the competition will be held in two stages. Stage 1, featuring the Eastern and Western Conferences defined above, may be seen as transitional because it will be played online as well, and abide by the same League Online Rules.

The 12 qualified teams from each League will compete in a Round-Robin tournament (11 rounds in each Conference) to determine 5 teams per Conference entitled to participate in the National Finals. Teams occupying spots 6 through 8 will preserve their place in the next year Conference while the last 4 teams from each Conference will be relegated back to the Qualifiers.

The Conference matches will be played on 6 boards while the team rosters will be increased up to 12 players (at least four of which should be also present in the earlier Qualifier’s roster).

The duration of the Conference stage will be between 3 and 4 months (3 clusters of either 4 or 3 rounds played presumably at the beginning of February, middle or end of March, beginning or middle of May).

At this stage, teams may be expected to exercise their right of inviting foreign titled players – yet at least 3 local players will be required to represent any given team in any given match.

III - The National Finals

This final event will take place in either July or August over-the-board (to provide for norm opportunities as well as for a feel of a "real" happening). 10 teams will compete in a 9-round Round-Robin tournament, the winner of which will be declared the Canadian Team Champion. Monetary rewards for the winning team and the medalists (as well as possible renumeration for the rest of the finalists) will be determined after further discussions.

It is assumed that the rules from the Brian Profit Canadian Chess League proposal could still be used for this Qualifier stage, although the two proposals are at this time, are in fact just that.

Those rules are a good beginning but there is a lot of missing information. I will gladly help you with the rules.

[Pierre Dénommée]

If FIDE combine a tournament not valid for norms with a tournament valid for norms, the resulting tournament would certainly not be valid for norms.


It is intended as a preliminary - and teams should be promoted/demoted.
Besides, those preliminaries will be played online - nothing to do with norms. The Finals are planned OTB - 10 teams, 9 rounds which should be sufficient to pursue a norm. That possibility was an important consideration for me from the start...

[Edward Porper]

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

[Fred McKim]

The merging of the two proposals has been suggested on the private forum, but should the idea of a National Team Championship with norms being available is an ultimate goal, it is clear that it would have to be over the board with a minimum of 9 rounds. Ten teams in a round-robin, or six teams in a double round-robin, or perhaps twelve teams in two divisions for an initial 5 games and then top 3 or four going to a final group.

The Internet league would serve as a feeder system, but at least formally there would have to be a degree of separation.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Fred:

Interesting initiative - I'm looking forward to its development - would likely enjoy playing on a team, for both formats, if there ever was one at my level.

Bob A

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

would likely enjoy playing on a team, for both formats, if there ever was one at my level.

Bob, why did the Scarborough CC skip the GTCL clubs' competition? It would have been good practice before going to Nationals :D

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Egis:

Not sure - wasn't discussed with me. - not on the SCC Executive.

Bob