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Bob Armstrong
11-05-2008, 03:02 PM
GL # 2 contains three motions by the Grassroots' Campaign for Governors' first discussion. They seek to :

1. eliminate tournament playing fee ( " tournament membership " );
2. grant 40% discount on annual membership to first time CFC'ers; and
3. lower the junior rating fee to $ 1 from the projected $ 5.

However, the Executive have now brought motion 2009-06, which we were not aware of when we submitted our motions, which seeks to rescind the July AGM motion on CFC Fees ( lowered annual membership; raised rating fees ; etc. ). The reason given is that the Executive wants to do a comprehensive review of CFC Fees in the light of current CFC Finances. The Grassroots' campaign supports this initiative, and so has decided to support motion 2009-06. This then makes the three Grassroots' Campaign motions redundant, since they will be seeking to amend a motion we are at the same time seeking to rescind.

Therefore, the 3 Grassroots' Campaign motions are now being withdrawn, for the time being.

Should the motion fail ( not expected ), then we can renew our 3 motions.

Should the motion succeed, we can then make our three submissions to the Executive in the context of their comprehensive review. If thereafter, we are dissatisfied with the Executive position, we can again renew our motions, this time to amend the CFC Handbook.

Below is the letter to Lyle Craver, CFC Secretary, giving notice of the withdrawal of the three motions:

Hi Lyle:

The Grassroots’ Campaign, through the assistance of four governors, brought Motions 2009-07, 2009-08 and 2009-09 before the Governors, and they were placed in GL # 2 for first discussion.

On behalf of the movers of the 3 motions, and with their consent, I am advising that Barry Thorvardson and Nikolay Noritsyn are now withdrawing all three motions, for the time being. Would you please so note this in the next GL # 3.

When these motions were submitted, we were not aware of the existence of Motion 2009-06, which seeks to rescind the July AGM motion on CFC fees. Our motions seek to amend this very AGM motion. We have decided to support the executive initiative with this motion, to do a comprehensive review of CFC fees in the light of current CFC finances. Since we are now supporting Motion 2009-06, our three motions at this time are redundant – we would be amending something that is going to be rescinded. Therefore, it makes sense for us to withdraw the 3 motions to await the outcome of the vote on Motion 2009-06. Once we know the outcome of that vote, we can determine whether to renew our motions, if the July Motion stands, or to work with the Executive on a comprehensive review, making our submissions, if the AGM motion is rescinded.

Thank you for your assistance.

Bob Armstrong, Grassroots’ Campaign Coordinator

Ken Craft
11-07-2008, 08:34 AM
Under Robert's Rules only the movers and seconders can withdraw their support of motions. Even then the motions once moved are the property of the assembly and can proceed with new movers and seconders.

Bob Armstrong
11-07-2008, 11:31 AM
Hi Ken:

Thanks. I will notify Lyle that the seconders also agree to the withdrawing of the 3 motions.

Bob

Ken Craft
11-07-2008, 11:38 AM
The point is that once a motion is moved, the movers and seconders lose control of it. The movers and seconders have the responsibility to inform the Governors via a GL that they no longer support the motions. With all due respect Bob, as a non-Governor you have no standing re. motions. I strongly encourage you to become a Governor at your first opportunityu.

Bob Armstrong
11-07-2008, 12:01 PM
Hi Ken:

As I have privately advised you, I take the legal position that I am an authorized " agent " for the movers/ seconders. I have notified the CFC Secretary that I notified him of the withdrawal " on behalf of and with the consent of " the movers/seconders, and I copied the movers/seconders with the correspondence.

I therefore believe that the motions are properly withdrawn. I expect that this will be so noted in the next GL, unless otherwise notified by the CFC Secretary.

Bob

P.S. Thanks for the encouragement to become a Governor. I am seriously considering this for next July.

Ken Craft
11-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Governors do not have authorized agents.

John Coleman
11-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Governors do not have authorized agents.Most CFC governors don't even have a pulse, let alone an agent.

The point is, Bob, that the movers/seconders cannot withdraw a motion, with or without an agent. They can only withdraw their support for a motion.

Bob Armstrong
11-07-2008, 02:01 PM
Hi John:

I have optimism - I believe many governors still have a pulse. An overwhelming majority voted on the first 4 restructuring motions of the year in GL # 1.

Also, I am not an expert in Roberts' Rules of Order. But I agree with Ken Craft that if a governor has moved or seconded a motion, then he can later withdraw from his position as mover/seconder. Whether this is considered only withdrawing " support ", I don't know. I've never heard before that other governors could step in and replace a withdrawing mover/seconder without one or the other of the movers/seconders requesting this. I always thought that if both a mover and seconder wanted the motion withdrawn, it was withdrawn. If other governors wanted the motion debated, they then had to bring a new motion. But as I say, I'm no expert.

This is much more complicated than ever intended - just don't want motions on the floor trying to amend a motion that is being rescinded !!

Bob

Ken Craft
11-07-2008, 02:25 PM
Although it has been many years, I have taught Robert's Rules workshops.

Christopher Mallon
11-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Ken is correct, once a motion has been properly moved/seconded it can't be "withdrawn" in any fashion other than a) ruled out of order or b) by a vote.

Of course a motion to withdraw a motion made by the mover/seconder would almost always succeed for obvious reasons but that's the rule...

Egidijus Zeromskis
11-07-2008, 11:16 PM
Ken is correct, once a motion has been properly moved/seconded it can't be "withdrawn" in any fashion other than a) ruled out of order or b) by a vote.

Of course a motion to withdraw a motion made by the mover/seconder would almost always succeed for obvious reasons but that's the rule...

There is the "third" conditional way which was demonstrated by President in the CFC practice:

"Halldor Palsson: I rule: Unless there is an objection I grant Mr. Barron permission to withdraw 2005-13. The comments by Mr. Dixon go into the GL and he or any other Governor may object to the withdrawal of 2005-13. RONR (10th ed.), p.285.]"
http://www.chess.ca/Gls/04-05GL3.pdf

Christopher Mallon
11-07-2008, 11:46 PM
Halldor is hardly a good example to use for following Robert's Rules. He once ruled out of order a motion censuring himself.