4b) Motion 2013-T Olympic Regulations (McKim/Rekhson) - discussion only

[Nikolay Noritsyn]

You have not answered why you think the Executive would make a better decision then the actual players.

That appears to be the main change, the other being "3) 913 Add (b) Aiding with game analysis and preparation for upcoming opponents. Reorder other sections." - which gives the captain another official job, a job of a coach. On the last two olympiads I recieved suggestions from both captains. Not that it changed anything, its my decision after all. I don't think serious work can be done even by one grandmaster - preparing 5 players in the few hours there are before a game. Openings should be prepared before the olympiad, not before games.

[Edward Porper]

You have not answered why you think the Executive would make a better decision then the actual players.

I have, Nikolay - because there will be no ground for favouritism, to start with.
More important, the position should be actually deserved - that is given on merit of the applications
I believe, you haven't answered what is it that you actually want from the Captain - if not chess/coaching skills?
What was your choice based on?


That appears to be the main change, the other being "3) 913 Add (b) Aiding with game analysis and preparation for upcoming opponents. Reorder other sections." - which gives the captain another official job, a job of a coach. On the last two olympiads I recieved suggestions from both captains. Not that it changed anything, its my decision after all. I don't think serious work can be done even by one grandmaster - preparing 5 players in the few hours there are before a game. Openings should be prepared before the olympiad, not before games.

It's not _another_ job, Nikolay, it's THE job the very position exists for. All the rest can be done by any literate person.
And of course, preparation and team strategy goes well beyond the openings...

[Nikolay Noritsyn]

I guess, there is no answer.

Since 3) 913 Add (b) is being voted on only now, the position did not exist for that before. The captain had no obligation to analyse previous games, and help prepare for future opponents - although it did happen, mainly for the women's team. The men's team consists of people that play better and know more about chess then the captain. So it doent work as well.

Preparation and team strategy goes beyond openings, of course. The captain gave suggestions to play safe, or more openly for a win. Perhaps, there could be more of that.

[Christopher Mallon]

It's not _another_ job, Nikolay, it's THE job the very position exists for. All the rest can be done by any literate person.

Actually you are 100% incorrect here. The captain's job has nothing to do with analysing games as far as FIDE is concerned; they do have a number of other responsibilities though. If they are able to help out in this regard then I think that is great, however as Nikolay says, that's the job of a "Coach" and to say something like "it's THE job the very position exists for." is a little ridiculous.

[Edward Porper]

I guess, there is no answer.

Since 3) 913 Add (b) is being voted on only now, the position did not exist for that before. The captain had no obligation to analyse previous games, and help prepare for future opponents - although it did happen, mainly for the women's team. The men's team consists of people that play better and know more about chess then the captain. So it doent work as well.


But that' s my very point, Nikolay - people that play better and know more about chess than THIS captain.
That's why it couldn't work.
With a proper captain it definitely would work - as it does in many other teams.

Preparation and team strategy goes beyond openings, of course. The captain gave suggestions to play safe, or more openly for a win. Perhaps, there could be more of that.

Do you really believe that's a way to speak to titled players - like they were inexperienced kids? :-)

[Edward Porper]

Actually you are 100% incorrect here. The captain's job has nothing to do with analysing games as far as FIDE is concerned; they do have a number of other responsibilities though. If they are able to help out in this regard then I think that is great, however as Nikolay says, that's the job of a "Coach" and to say something like "it's THE job the very position exists for." is a little ridiculous.

Did I mention FIDE, Chris?
FIDE doesn't care how Canada fares at an Olympiad - so, of course, FIDE is fine with ANY choice of a Captain for Canada (or any other country).
But the CFC does care how we do - and it's from the CFC's point of view that I meant "the very job the position exists for". That is, to help the players to do their very best.
As for the other responsibilities, literally anybody could perform them. It's not worth 1500 dollard to send on a trip a protocol signer!
A Captain must be a coach/second to justify his existence in that particular capacity

[Christopher Mallon]

Did I mention FIDE, Chris?
FIDE doesn't care how Canada fares at an Olympiad - so, of course, FIDE is fine with ANY choice of a Captain for Canada (or any other country).
But the CFC does care how we do - and it's from the CFC's point of view that I meant "the very job the position exists for". That is, to help the players to do their very best.
As for the other responsibilities, literally anybody could perform them. It's not worth 1500 dollard to send on a trip a protocol signer!
A Captain must be a coach/second to justify his existence in that particular capacity

... Nevermind, I'll just have to add you to my short list of people who are impossible to have a discussion with because they will only ever see their own point no matter how flawed.

[Nikolay Noritsyn]

Do you really believe that's a way to speak to titled players - like they were inexperienced kids? :-)

I don't differentiate between titled and untitled players. We are talking about things revolving chess, but not chess. Regardless, I think I am quite correct with my language.

People on the team play better then any captain, because they are the best in Canada. In 2006, Canada had both a coach (Lev Psakhis) and a captain. I did not participate, so I have no opinion if it was helpful or not. Judging by the result - not really.
Russia has won olympiads from 1992 to 2000 when the captain was Boris Postovsky, who is pretty much a chess amateur, with a lot of knowledge of psychology and people on the team. Thats how it works in many other teams.

[Edward Porper]

I don't differentiate between titled and untitled players. We are talking about things revolving chess, but not chess. Regardless, I think I am quite correct with my language.

People on the team play better then any captain, because they are the best in Canada. In 2006, Canada had both a coach (Lev Psakhis) and a captain. I did not participate, so I have no opinion if it was helpful or not. Judging by the result - not really.
Russia has won olympiads from 1992 to 2000 when the captain was Boris Postovsky, who is pretty much a chess amateur, with a lot of knowledge of psychology and people on the team. Thats how it works in many other teams.

Nikolay, in my opinion, a coach is needed to improve the team results.
We don't have the resourses to send both a captain and a coach - so logically the captain should be the coach.
As I suggested earlier, let's see how the new system will work - and come back to discussing it in 18 months, if necessary.

[Nikolay Noritsyn]

Nikolay, in my opinion, a coach is needed to improve the team results.
We don't have the resourses to send both a captain and a coach - so logically the captain should be the coach.
As I suggested earlier, let's see how the new system will work - and come back to discussing it in 18 months, if necessary.

We are not in a big disagreement here. Personally, I think pre-olympiad training camp with a strong coach is much more important, but any help from a good coach should amount to some slight improvement. However, we do not have such an individual in Canada. If we had a 2600 non playing grandmaster, if he had a lot of coaching experience, if he was willing to volunteer to be captain and coach, that would be great. There are just too many "if's" in that sentence.

Lets try to at least imagine in advance (18 months is a lot of time to wait) how you want the new system to work...Who do you think could serve as captain+coach?