Page 1 of 11 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 104

Thread: Junior Chess and the " Residency " Restriction

  1. #1

    Default Junior Chess and the " Residency " Restriction

    Michael Barron, as mover, and I, as seconder, have now filed the following motion on this issue, to be placed on the 2011 Fall Meeting agenda ( scheduled for Oct. 1 ). We would be pleased to hear any comments members might have before the meeting:

    Motion 2011 – X – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

    Moved – Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

    Moved –

    a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

    b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

    c) add to p. 1001. Frequency, after the words “ World 10 Championship “ the words “ and World 8 Championship “.

    d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

    e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:

    A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

    g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

    h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    Commentary:

    a) The old title of the section is misleading since “ junior “ is now thought of as the U-20 junior championship, and “ cadet “ refers to U-16. But the section really deals with all 12 categories of “ youth “ championships. P. 1000. Events: reads:
    The holding of the Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) which consists of the following twelve events:
    Canadian Under 18 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 16 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 14 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 12 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 10 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 8 Championship {Open and Girls}
    So the title should simply and clearly refer to these events using the common titles.

    b) The title is made consistent with the later title for the Junior Championship.

    c) The U-8 category was added a while ago, and p. 1000 was amended to include it. But p. 1001. “ Frequency “ failed to be amended at the same time to add it there. This amendment does that. Here is the old section:

    1001. Frequency:

    A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".

    d) The CYCC is more recently a 7-round tournament spread over 4 days, and p. 1002 has never been amended to catch up to this change on the ground. Our amendment brings the section into line with recent practice, though one could still be only three days under this wording. The old p. 1002. Format read:

    The tournament shall be swiss tournament held over three days with the number of rounds to be decided by the tournament organizers taking into account the number and age of the players.

    {Motion Palsson/Doubleday 2007-08 GL1 From AGM} When there are less than eight players for any category, then one or more categories shall be combined so that there are no less than 8 players in the combined category. The combined category shall be decided by the tournament organizers unless directed otherwise by the CFC President who shall hve the final authority to rule on this matter. Where the shortfall occurs in the girls U18, it is recommended that this section be combined with the girls U16. If their insufficient numbers in this combined U18 & U16 girls section, then the U14 Girls should be included with both these sections.

    e) The current p. 1007 restricts Permanent Resident rights, with a “ residency “ requirement for eligibility. It reads:

    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Youth Tournament must fulfil the age and residency requirements specified by FIDE for the World event to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a landed immigrant and be a resident of Canada for the twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament. Persons who are not citizens or landed immigrants but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    Canadian law now refers to “ landed immigrants “ as “ Permanent Residents “, and this change has been made.
    There are very few Canadian rights that a citizen has, that a " Permanent Resident " does not have. And CFC must be very careful not to unwarrantedly restrict those rights.
    As well, most Permanent Residents eventually take out Canadian citizenship. Many of those who keep their own country citizenship when they come to Canada, do so for a variety of reasons, but never have any intention of returning to their own country on any permanent basis. They all pay taxes, and contribute to their local Canadian communities. Then there are some for whom it is only a convenience for possible future use - but nonetheless, they have adopted Canada as their country of permanent residence, and have gained most Canadian rights and are entitled to use the term “ Canadian “.

    So, from a Canadian perspective, we want to eliminate the " prior residency " rule for participation in Canadian youth chess tournaments. We feel this respects the legal status of a Permanent Resident as a " Canadian ". They are entitled to play in the national youth championships, even if they have just taken up Canadian permanent residency.

    This does leave CFC though, with a restrictive FIDE rule which distinguishes between citizenship, and permanent residence ( and all other status ), for the purpose of which federation flag a person can put on their chess table in FIDE tournaments. CFC will have to live with this for the time being ( might we apply to FIDE to get this changed at some future date, for an accommodation to Canadian law ? ), and blame FIDE for a rule that " interferes with Canadian rights ". Yes, CFC will have to comply for international tournaments. But we do not have to compound the error by imposing a Canadian “ residency “ restriction.

    Besides believing it is right to delete the residency requirement, we are also concerned there could be a successful lawsuit to strike down a " residency " prohibition, that represses a Canadian permanent resident right, like playing in a national Canadian chess championship.

    f) We have introduced into the section 10 the Girls Junior Championship, which has been in place for a few years now.

    g) We have brought the schedule for the Junior Championship in line with the length in recent years.

    h) We have dealt with p. 1057 which has a “ residency “ requirement, consistently with the way we have amended the comparable section for the Canadian Youth Chess Championships above.

    Bob A

  2. #2

    Default

    I didn't read it all carefully but probably some statement should be made as to the nationality of the player as indicated on their FIDE card. Not withstanding the rights of Permanent residents (or even Canadian citizens), the nationality on their FIDE card may trump all that from FIDE's perspective.

  3. #3

    Default Canada vs FIDE

    Hi Roger:

    If the Canadian residency requirement is removed, as per the Barron/Armstrong motion, then a new permanent resident junior will be eligible to play in the CYCC and become champion.

    However, if FIDE refuses him/her entry to the WYCC for Canada ( which it does under current FIDE regulations ), then the opportunity to represent Canada as the " Official Representative " will devolve down to the 2nd place CYCC finisher who will be eligible.

    Bob A

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Port Moody, BC
    Posts
    594
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Good motion...

    ... good idea.
    Valer Eugen Demian
    FIDE CM & Instructor, ICCF IM
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ches...593013634?mt=8

  5. #5

    Default Bad Idea

    Bad Idea

    Given that the purpose (and only prize) of the CYCC is the opportunnity to represent Canada at the WYCC it is a bad idea to deliberately go against the fide eligibility requirements. Creating the possibility of "champions" who are clearly not eligible to represent Canada is frought with peril and folly.

    Try organizing a CYCC with an ineligible player and see what happens. The eligible players will scream bloody murder and rightfully claim the ineligible player is disturbing the pairings.

    We encounter a similar situation in BC with our Regional qualifiers to the provincial Championship. The rule here is champions from one region are not eligible to play in another regional qualifier. Every year I get numerous plea's to allow an ineligible player into and event. They offer to not take the trophy if they win. The competition is quick to explain how there is no way to eliminate the effect of the ineligible player. Everyone who played them would have played a different, eligible player. Anyone who lost will argue they would have won against the eligible player, and vice versa.

    Are there any CYCC organizers who think this is a problem that needs fixing? Is there anybody who thinks the problem is worse than the proposed fix, and it's resulting problems?

    Ken

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    Bad Idea

    Given that the purpose (and only prize) of the CYCC is the opportunnity to represent Canada at the WYCC it is a bad idea to deliberately go against the fide eligibility requirements. Creating the possibility of "champions" who are clearly not eligible to represent Canada is frought with peril and folly.

    Try organizing a CYCC with an ineligible player and see what happens. The eligible players will scream bloody murder and rightfully claim the ineligible player is disturbing the pairings.

    We encounter a similar situation in BC with our Regional qualifiers to the provincial Championship. The rule here is champions from one region are not eligible to play in another regional qualifier. Every year I get numerous plea's to allow an ineligible player into and event. They offer to not take the trophy if they win. The competition is quick to explain how there is no way to eliminate the effect of the ineligible player. Everyone who played them would have played a different, eligible player. Anyone who lost will argue they would have won against the eligible player, and vice versa.

    Are there any CYCC organizers who think this is a problem that needs fixing? Is there anybody who thinks the problem is worse than the proposed fix, and it's resulting problems?

    Ken
    well, it's a matter of what the primary purpose of the event is isn't it? Is it primarily a qualification stage (in which case the FIDE rules should apply) or is it primarily a national championship with the side effect of a qualification to go somewhere else (in which case local rules should apply)?

    e.g. The BC closed "allows" non-Canadian FIDE cards to play (someone carded as Estonia comes to mind). I would take a dim view of the CFC or FIDE trying to set the eligibility rules for the BC Closed. Of course, these days, the BC Closed is not a qualification step to the next level so the point is moot.

    So, is the CYCC only a qualification tournament or is it a National Championship?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roger patterson View Post
    well, it's a matter of what the primary purpose of the event is isn't it? Is it primarily a qualification stage (in which case the FIDE rules should apply) or is it primarily a national championship with the side effect of a qualification to go somewhere else (in which case local rules should apply)?

    e.g. The BC closed "allows" non-Canadian FIDE cards to play (someone carded as Estonia comes to mind). I would take a dim view of the CFC or FIDE trying to set the eligibility rules for the BC Closed. Of course, these days, the BC Closed is not a qualification step to the next level so the point is moot.

    So, is the CYCC only a qualification tournament or is it a National Championship?
    Good question, Roger!

    Of course, the CYCC is a National Championship!
    It's the main competition of the year for all Canadian players, and we should promote it and remove artificial barriers for participation.
    As the second goal, it serves as a qualifier for international competitions:
    WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and so on...
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  8. #8

    Default to determine Canadian representatives to the World Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by roger patterson View Post
    well, it's a matter of what the primary purpose of the event is isn't it? Is it primarily a qualification stage (in which case the FIDE rules should apply) or is it primarily a national championship

    So, is the CYCC only a qualification tournament or is it a National Championship?
    Hi Roger,

    I appreciate that you are not involved in Junior Chess or you would be aware that the purpose of the CYCC is to select representatives to the WYCC.

    Refer to the CFC Handbook, Section 10 Invitational Youth Championships
    Article 1001 Frequency

    "A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".

    ...and that should be the end of that.
    Until the CFC rules change, and the Fide rules change this is a dead horse. Can we please quit trying to make it run.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    Good question, Roger!

    Of course, the CYCC is a National Championship!
    It's the main competition of the year for all Canadian players, and we should promote it and remove artificial barriers for participation.
    As the second goal, it serves as a qualifier for international competitions:
    WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and so on...
    Mr. Barron,

    That should have being done last year, when new motion was passed, not now.

    I fail to see how it serves a qualifier to WYCC and Pan-American competition, as it was proven in very recent discussion on this forum.

    Also, we believe you own someone an appology here!

    Mikhail

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post

    Hi Roger,

    I appreciate that you are not involved in Junior Chess or you would be aware that the purpose of the CYCC is to select representatives to the WYCC.

    Refer to the CFC Handbook, Section 10 Invitational Youth Championships
    Article 1001 Frequency

    "A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".


    ...and that should be the end of that.
    Until the CFC rules change, and the Fide rules change this is a dead horse. Can we please quit trying to make it run.
    Well, not withstanding the handbook, some people apparently disagree with you (see Michael Barron's post, plus presumably the people who drafted the motion).

    And I think if you told someone who won the CYCC U16 group that they were not the Canadian U16 champion, only the U16 person who qualifies to go to the WYCC, they would probably disagree with you as well.

    But really, I don't care which it is and I agree that I, and people like me (which would include most of the governors and specifically the people who drafted this motion), should stay out of what is properly the concern of junior chess organizers / players. I ask only because I'm interested in what the consensus view of people is of the CYCC.

Page 1 of 11 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •