Concerning extra players representing CANADA at 2011 WYCC in Brazil

[Hal Bond]

Mikhail - I am disappointed with Michael's comments - a very bad joke at best. I don't see any other executive member supporting them.

I did not suggest anything criminal about extra players paying to go to the WYCC. I do recall the CFC being criticized on this very idea of qualication vs simply paying to go to the CYCC, which was considered unprincipled.

As I suggested to Halldor, it is tempting to open up the rules for participating in the WYCC even more. (Canada is already one of the largest delegations at the WYCC) But we will take some flack for it, so we will need strong support from the Governors.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Mikhail:

I agree with you - Michael is introducing controversial statements which are not relevant to the issue or helpful.

Here is my take on what is relevant:

Dora effectively made an application to join the team under " extraordinary cirucmstances ". The executive rejected the application on the grounds that it had been explained at the time of choice, that attendance at the Pan-Am's would not be considered an " extraordinary circumstance ". At the time, some juniors decided to forgo the Pan-Am's and play in the CYCC. Three of our top players decided to go to the Pan-Am's, knowing full well the executive position.

You have tried to garner public support to have the executive review their decision. The executive has refused to review the decision.

A motion to the governors to overrule the executive could have been brought but wasn't ( admittedly the time frame was tight, although one governor had started to draft a motion ). The jurisdiction of the governors to overrule is also admittedly unclear. Also, it may be that the majority of governors agree with the executive position.

I think then, that the issue is effectively closed, since the deadline for Team registrations with FIDE is Sept. 25.

Bob

[Mikhail Egorov]

Hi Hal,

Thank you very much for your support. I think, since we are acting in the best interest of Canadian Youth program and it’s players,
everyone will understand and no one will take any flack for this.

Hi Bob,

Yes, I completely agree with all the facts that you stated.

I would like to add that Mr.Barron’s statement is what is still bothering me, and why I am insisting on my point:
‘The Executive in fact made the decision that Canada will not send the team to PanAm due to the fact that the dates of PanAm appeared to be in conflict with CYCC.’

As Mr. Barron stateted himself: “'The main reason for the new motion was to allow more Canadian players to participate at WYCC (not only first 3 finishers).”

This completely contradicts with actions Mr. Barron (youth coordinator at that time) took to boycott Pan-Am games with EXECUTIVE decision.

Since Mr.Barron had a right to change and damage Canadian participation at WYCC with his actions; I see no reason why we can’t reverse and make things right again!

Dear executives/governors;

I know an EXECUTIVE decision will have to be made. I would like to ask for your support on this issue, and maybe allow extra player(s) to join our fantastic WYCC team this year in Brazil and make it even stronger! Thank you very much for you time.

Mikhail

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Hi Vlad,

Quote from Mr. Barron’s post:
“1. The new motion was made by Vlad Birarov and Valer Demian on December 1, 2010. At that time the dates of PanAm were not known yet. The Motion passed in January 2011.

2. The main reason for the new motion was to allow more Canadian players to participate at WYCC (not only first 3 finishers).”

So you were the one original creators of the motions. WOW! The main reason to allow more Canadian players to participate at WYCC???

Perfect! I can now see, how it is working in full swing now!

You are in full right to defend your motion and act in personal interest, since you were one of the original creators. Sometimes you have to look at the whole pictures,
Put persona interests aside and ask: ‘What is best for Canadian chess and Canadian youth”.

I am not saying that people create bulletproof motions. I've seen quite a few rules broken in my time as well.

Yes you are correct, that Constance is a good player, and I am not denying this.


Mikhail

Hi Mikhail,

I stand behind this motion and indeed it is good for chess in Canada.

What bothers me is how many bleeding hearts are ready to paint something good with Black paint just because 3 families changed their minds and now are crying wolf...

It does not matter how good the children involved are. When their families decided to go to PanAm they already knew about the passed motion and possibility not to go to WYCC; moreover they stated they had no intention to go. Forcing CFC's hand here is a test and I stand behind the Executive decision.

It is a matter of principle and not a matter of developing chess in Canada!

Regards,

[Peter McKillop]

Hi Mikhail,

I stand behind this motion and indeed it is good for chess in Canada.

What bothers me is how many bleeding hearts are ready to paint something good with Black paint just because 3 families changed their minds and now are crying wolf...

It does not matter how good the children involved are. When their families decided to go to PanAm they already knew about the passed motion and possibility not to go to WYCC; moreover they stated they had no intention to go. Forcing CFC's hand here is a test and I stand behind the Executive decision.

It is a matter of principle and not a matter of developing chess in Canada!

Regards,

Seems to me that the principle should call for focusing on the children involved rather than wasting valuable time with the usual one group of 'adults' trying to put the screws to another group of 'adults'.

[Peter McKillop]

Hi Mikhail:

I agree with you - Michael is introducing controversial statements which are not relevant to the issue or helpful.

Here is my take on what is relevant:

Dora effectively made an application to join the team under " extraordinary cirucmstances ". The executive rejected the application on the grounds that it had been explained at the time of choice, that attendance at the Pan-Am's would not be considered an " extraordinary circumstance ". [my 'bolding' - P. McK.] ...

Well, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that the CFC's position with respect to what constituted an extraordinary circumstance was the original mistake. The matter called for more careful insight into the possible consequences of a narrow definition.

... At the time, some juniors decided to forgo the Pan-Am's and play in the CYCC. Three of our top players decided to go to the Pan-Am's, knowing full well the executive position. ...

And so those families lost their chance to compete for WYCC bursaries. Wasn't that enough of a penalty?

... You have tried to garner public support to have the executive review their decision. The executive has refused to review the decision. ...

A discreditable action on their part.

... A motion to the governors to overrule the executive could have been brought but wasn't ( admittedly the time frame was tight, although one governor had started to draft a motion ). The jurisdiction of the governors to overrule is also admittedly unclear. Also, it may be that the majority of governors agree with the executive position.

I think then, that the issue is effectively closed, since the deadline for Team registrations with FIDE is Sept. 25. ...

Sorry, Bob, but I think this last part is a bunch of bureaucratic b.s. There was, and still is, plenty of time for detailed discussion and voting by the governors.

[Mikhail Egorov]

Hi Mikhail,

I stand behind this motion and indeed it is good for chess in Canada.

What bothers me is how many bleeding hearts are ready to paint something good with Black paint just because 3 families changed their minds and now are crying wolf...

It does not matter how good the children involved are. When their families decided to go to PanAm they already knew about the passed motion and possibility not to go to WYCC; moreover they stated they had no intention to go. Forcing CFC's hand here is a test and I stand behind the Executive decision.

It is a matter of principle and not a matter of developing chess in Canada!

Regards,

Hi Valer,

You do have some valid points, but after weighting pros and cons I still stand by this appeal.

Quote from Mr. Barron post: 'The Executive in fact made the decision that Canada will not send the team to, Pan-Am due to the fact that the dates of Pan-Am appeared to be in conflict with CYCC' .

The new motion was manipulated by Mr. Barron to get back at Pan-American organizers, after new motion was passed. CFC hand was successfully tested here in EXECUTIVE decision.

What is the point, if new motion can manipulated, after it was passed?

With his EXECUTIVE actions, he jeopardized it, by NOT allowing more Canadian players to participate at WYCC.

If, tournaments were organized on different dates, we would not be having discussion now.

Mr. Barron was youth coordinator at that time. He acted in personal interest, and not in matter of principal or not in matter of developing chess in Canada! Please do correct me, if I am wrong here.

The damage was already done by Mr. Barron. I am not even brining his public insults into this. The least thing CFC can do is fulfill this small request and allow following 3 strong juniors to join WYCC team.

Regards,

Mikhail

[Vladimir Birarov]

Hi Valer,

You do have some valid points, but after weighting pros and cons I still stand by this appeal.

Quote from Mr. Barron post: 'The Executive in fact made the decision that Canada will not send the team to, Pan-Am due to the fact that the dates of Pan-Am appeared to be in conflict with CYCC' .

The new motion was manipulated by Mr. Barron to get back at Pan-American organizers, after new motion was passed. CFC hand was successfully tested here in EXECUTIVE decision.

What is the point, if new motion can manipulated, after it was passed?

With his EXECUTIVE actions, he jeopardized it, by NOT allowing more Canadian players to participate at WYCC.

If, tournaments were organized on different dates, we would not be having discussion now.

Mr. Barron was youth coordinator at that time. He acted in personal interest, and not in matter of principal or not in matter of developing chess in Canada! Please do correct me, if I am wrong here.

The damage was already done by Mr. Barron. I am not even brining his public insults into this. The least thing CFC can do is fulfill this small request and allow following 3 strong juniors to join WYCC team.

Regards,

Mikhail

Mikhail,

While I agree that Michael's post is controversial and contains unsubstantiated personal attacks, I can not refrain from asking you again: "Where do you see somebody's personal interest in this story?". What was Michael's interest when he "manipulated" and "jeopardized" this motion? If you can show when and how Michael (or someone else) acted in his personal interest, please, do that. If you can not, I'm asking you to stop with your allegations.

I've already stated my position but I can do it again: with this motion we all acted in best interests of Canadian youth chess. And this including Dora's mother who is a member of Youth Committee and actively participated in this motion creation, and who was Governor when it passed.

[Mikhail Egorov]

Hi Vlad,

Thank you for agreeing, that you also found your friend’s post “unsubstantiated persona attack”.

I can’t not emphasise the following point more clearly.

Following is taken from Mr. Barron post and he stated it publicly on this thread:
His statement: ''The Executive in fact made the decision that Canada will not send the team to, PanAm due to the fact that the dates of PanAm appeared to be in conflict with CYCC'.

Pan-Am is an annual international event, and is 2nd strongest young players can complete after WYCC. One year ago, before new motion was passed, our juniors could compete in both. NOW they are forced to chose ONE. This is “jeopardizing”.

If following is not enough for evidence, I do not know what is!

So what do we have as a result:
a. top 3 very strong juniors get penalized by new motion
b. some of their parents/organizers get attacked by Mr. Barron himself

What is next, more personal attacks???

I am also asking you to stop making empty claims, if you can’t backup yours and Mr. Barron's claim: “with this motion we all acted in best interests of Canadian youth chess”. Please advise us how you and Mr. Barron accomplished that?

Mikhail

[Mikhail Egorov]

Well, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that the CFC's position with respect to what constituted an extraordinary circumstance was the original mistake. The matter called for more careful insight into the possible consequences of a narrow definition.



And so those families lost their chance to compete for WYCC bursaries. Wasn't that enough of a penalty?



A discreditable action on their part.



Sorry, Bob, but I think this last part is a bunch of bureaucratic b.s. There was, and still is, plenty of time for detailed discussion and voting by the governors.

Hi Peter,

Yes, I completely agree with you. There is still plenty of time left for detailed discussion and reaching the right decision, before Septmebr 25 deadline. I really hope this starts moving into right direction very soon.

Mikhail