Extra trophies at CYCC

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Well, Valer, I doubt that any school systems will be rushing to change to 2-year age-groupings.

And it's worse than you think... the under-odds will have an opportunity to win one of SIX trophies. I can just see it now, a bunch of under-13 boys strutting about, lording it over the older boys in their age group. Quelle horreur!

We are not talking about the school system, but about a chess competition. These age groups have been established by people with knowledge of such things, so nobody has to take my word for it; also this system works for years without any visible problems, so why fix what ain't broke?...

The question is why give any trophies to under-odds?

[Valer Eugen Demian]

John, you should know that no good deed goes unpunished.
Keep up the good work.

Not all good deeds are truly good when you sit down for a second and analyse the consequences. It is great to come up with ideas but this should not imply a 99.99% acceptance and implementation!...

[Ken Craft]

Valer asked: The question is why give any trophies to under-odds?

Ken replied: encouragement, positive reinforcement, reward etc.

[Steve Douglas]

These age groups have been established by people with knowledge of such things

I doubt that very much. You seem to be trying to make the argument that there is some sort of cognitive significance to the specific cut-off points for the age groupings.

Steve

[John Coleman]

These age groups have been established by people with knowledge of such things

I agree with Steve, this is unlikely. The two-year age groupings a matter of convenience, and like all things done established by FIDE, subject to alien influence. (I notice that the sidereal year of Mars is about 687 Earth solar days - almost two of our years. Maybe this is a clue to the origin of Kirsan's aliens.)

Ken has it right, encouragement, positive reinforcement, and recognition. Of course, we have to have some sort of divisions, which are inherently unfair. Even with 1-year groupings, there will be significant differences in age. However, I am not the only person who thinks that requiring 10-year olds to compete in the same division as 11-year olds is a little unfair. Hence, the junior trophies.

www.cycc.ca

[Valer Eugen Demian]

I agree with Steve, this is unlikely. The two-year age groupings a matter of convenience, and like all things done established by FIDE, subject to alien influence. (I notice that the sidereal year of Mars is about 687 Earth solar days - almost two of our years. Maybe this is a clue to the origin of Kirsan's aliens.)

Ken has it right, encouragement, positive reinforcement, and recognition. Of course, we have to have some sort of divisions, which are inherently unfair. Even with 1-year groupings, there will be significant differences in age. However, I am not the only person who thinks that requiring 10-year olds to compete in the same division as 11-year olds is a little unfair. Hence, the junior trophies.

www.cycc.ca

Well, the argument that everything done by FIDE is wrong can't be even taken seriously, forget putting it side by side with mine.

FIDE has been running these age groups for how long? The only serious modification done in the past 5 years was to add the under 8 age group. These age groups have been working "decently" (if "well" is such a strong word to use...) for years and years. I am not really sure why all of a sudden this need to challenge it?!...

More trophies have never had a positive effect on performance; however they do have a "populistic" effect. In general such effect is needed to atract more players, so it would be very good at the grassroots of junior chess. CYCC is the pinnacle, the national stage where the best rise to the top. In other words the rewards and the activity are pretty much from different categories and matching them will not have the desired effect!

[Ken Craft]

Valer, are you arguing that positive reinforcement has no effect on future behaviour?

[Jonathan Berry]

These age groups have been established by people with knowledge of such things, so nobody has to take my word for it; also this system works for years without any visible problems, so why fix what ain't broke?

World Schools Championship has different age groups, with still the two-year gaps. No FIDE logo on the website, but it's on the FIDE Calendar as a World event. You ask why? It's for a WYCC long-term organizer (Turkey) to rent hotel rooms in a year when the WYCC is elsewhere (Greece).

Concerning trophies, here is yet another opinion. My first year of playing organized chess was near the end of the age of enthusiasm for trophies in BC. I won something like 9 trophies--more than in all the years since. I was so happy when Ray Kerr offered to recycle trophies. He kept them in a closet, bringing a few out and having new plaques engraved each time he ran a youth tournament. A medal is better than a trophy because it is smaller. Money is even better because it is more adaptable. The best trophy, IMO, is a chess clock. The plaque "1976 Ottawa Closed Champion" can amuse, confuse, or intimidate the opponent.

The nicest trophy I won was the West Vancouver Chess Club Championship, which was a work of art and craftsmanship and precious metal (you know, silver that tarnished). I never took home the BC Championship trophy because it was so large. Dust, dust is the enemy. Among keeper trophies, I won a couple of very heavy ones (with marble bases) in Mexico. Still, ultimately, they were just curios and dust-collectors. There is a funny story about a top GM (Dr. Huebner, AFAIR) not wanting a trophy, but not wanting to insult the organizers (by leaving it in the hotel room or tossing it in the ocean possibly to be found by a beachcomber), managed to get another competitor to take it--and how that is the other person's major mantelpiece display to this day.

[Stephen Wright]

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hans45.txt

[Jonathan Berry]

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hans45.txt

LOL! You'd think I were playing an internal game of Chinese Whispers. But not too inaccurate a recollection for an old guy, if you discount that the story was by a Canadian and published in a magazine of which I was the Technical Editor! I had even remembered that it took place in Havana; the addition just seemed irrelevant.