Ag. Item # 11 – Discussion on Motion 2010-06 – Discounted Membership/TPF

[Jason Lohner]

I lived in Vancouver for a year and other than the Keres and the UBC weekly events which I couldn't attend, there wasn't a single adult CFC rated event for the whole year. So I don't see how it's really any different?

I don't know when you lived in Vancouver, but in the few years before they screwed up the TM there were several CFC rated tournaments in the Vancouver area and at least 3 if not 4/5 in the interior... now they are pretty much gone. I know that there isn't one CFC event in the interior left.

Now there are 3 maybe 4 CFC rated events in the whole year.

- Langley open
- Keres open
- Grand Pacific open.

The rest are now non-cfc events.

all you have to do is check the BC Chess Federations website
http://www.chess.bc.ca/index.shtml

[Valer Eugen Demian]

I don't know when you lived in Vancouver, but in the few years before they screwed up the TM there were several CFC rated tournaments in the Vancouver area and at least 3 if not 4/5 in the interior... now they are pretty much gone. I know that there isn't one CFC event in the interior left.

Now there are 3 maybe 4 CFC rated events in the whole year.

- Langley open
- Keres open
- Grand Pacific open.

The rest are now non-cfc events.

all you have to do is check the BC Chess Federations website
http://www.chess.bc.ca/index.shtml

The reasons for having so few adult tournaments are more than just participation fees. Some other reasons are:
a) reduced number of playing facilities for decent rental fees;
b) reduced number of adult players showing up at these events (month after month you basically see overall the same 20-30 names)
c) reduced number of organizers dedicated for adult playing

I know you have been vocal about CFC membership fees, but let's be honest here. I live in Vancouver too and know the current (and past since 1994...) chess community at least as good as you do!...

[Jason Lohner]

The reasons for having so few adult tournaments are more than just participation fees. Some other reasons are:
a) reduced number of playing facilities for decent rental fees;
b) reduced number of adult players showing up at these events (month after month you basically see overall the same 20-30 names)
c) reduced number of organizers dedicated for adult playing

I know you have been vocal about CFC membership fees, but let's be honest here. I live in Vancouver too and know the current (and past since 1994...) chess community at least as good as you do!...

Well I probably know the interior better... the tournaments up here were all CFC rated, same facilities, same players, same organizers... I told one TD of the proposal to change the TM and his response was shock and he emphatically said 'they can't do that'... since then ALL interior events have become non-cfc events. Even on the coast, I get an invitation to a bi-yearly event that is non-cfc rated.

so

a) doesn't apply in the interior
b) who cares if they are the same names??? they still come out to play
c) organizers have become fed up and now are running non-cfc rated events... all you have to do is check out the BC Fed web page to see the list of events

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Well I probably know the interior better... the tournaments up here were all CFC rated, same facilities, same players, same organizers... I told one TD of the proposal to change the TM and his response was shock and he emphatically said 'they can't do that'... since then ALL interior events have become non-cfc events. Even on the coast, I get an invitation to a bi-yearly event that is non-cfc rated.

so

a) doesn't apply in the interior
b) who cares if they are the same names??? they still come out to play
c) organizers have become fed up and now are running non-cfc rated events... all you have to do is check out the BC Fed web page to see the list of events

I will strongly challenge you on point "c" especially because of what is listed on the BC Fed website and people I know and used to be organizers; also in your answer to Christopher you did not list any BC Interior tournaments!... That is the reason I considered I had to reply to your post

It is important they are the same names over and over again because:
1. After a while people lose interest to play the same players over and over again
2. It shows that in reality the activity is not as vibrant, nor has the potential you imply. A good activity ALWAYS atracts new people!
None of the above has anything to do with the CFC membership fees!

[Christopher Mallon]

For the record I lived there from February 2002 to February 2003.

[Michael von Keitz]

I like Chris' idea of a single, standard membership fee for all. There was also some mention of tournament directors being able to accept more than one type of membership (e.g. FQE, USCF, etc), while still rating the event with the CFC. I feel that CFC-rated events should be offered to CFC members exclusively, and under Chris' proposed membership structure. For instance, however, when the FQE hosts the Canadian Open, would the CFC like to see all participants be forced to take a CFC membership, or is a compromise to be preferred?

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Michael:

There seems to be some movement towards a single, standard membership fee for all - I am being convinced this is a good idea.

But it does leave open the question of whether we are putting an undue financial burden on chess families who have juniors. It has been the tradition to give juniors discounts in chess - CFC memberships; CFC rating fees; club memberships ( eg. Scarborough CC ); tournament entry fees ( except they have not done it for the upcoming Can. Open ). Can we justify taking away this benefit to juniors that has been the tradition?

As to CFC tournaments in Quebec - I think the CFC should be entitled to some revenue from CFC-rated tournaments, beyond the rating fees submitted. CFC Members effectively contribute part of their membership in each CFC-rated tournament they play in - this is a main reason for them taking out a membership. I think that CFC should also get some revenue from Quebec players in CFC-rated events ( and as I understand it, there are not many ). So I would be against recognizing an FQE membership as the equaivalent of a CFC membership for the purposes of registering for a CFC-rated tournament in Quebec. It appears that the Tournament Playing Fee is going to stay ( Motion 2010-06 is going down to defeat !! ), and so I see no reason Quebec players cannot pay it - this way CFC gets some revenue from Quebec CFC - rated tournaments.

Bob

[Bob Armstrong]

A number of points were raised:

1. the tournament playing fee is working, and should be kept – it encourages players to join tournaments
2. the new discounted membership will make all tournament players equal, and will generate CFC memberships.
3. the membership fee system is too complex, and a flat fee should be used.
4. in some parts of the country, the recent doubling of the tournament playing fee is leading players to take out full memberships instead of buying the TPF; in other parts, it is leading to more Non-CFC tournaments, so players don’t have to pay anything beyond the entry fee.

Is this summary generally satisfactory?

Bob

[Jason Lohner]

also in your answer to Christopher you did not list any BC Interior tournaments!... That is the reason I considered I had to reply to your post

Silverstar Classic - gone
Apple blossom open - gone
Ogopogo Summer - gone
Monashee Open - gone
Kelowna Winterfest - gone

Now the interior has non-cfc events that have replaced these tournaments. I am on a mailing list of interior chess players and when one of these non-cfc events are run, we are all informed.

Sad part is the Silverstar Classic was run for 25 years as a CFC event.

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Silverstar Classic - gone
Apple blossom open - gone
Ogopogo Summer - gone
Monashee Open - gone
Kelowna Winterfest - gone

Now the interior has non-cfc events that have replaced these tournaments. I am on a mailing list of interior chess players and when one of these non-cfc events are run, we are all informed.

Sad part is the Silverstar Classic was run for 25 years as a CFC event.

Well, it is a shame all these players do not consider supporting CFC with their membership. I came here 16 years ago and paid my CFC membership ALL these years even if I have 1 active game played in the past 10 years. Should I add my donations to the Canadian Olympic team?... Why am I doing this differently? Maybe I have been brought up in a chess culture where players were taught from an early age to support their federation first and ask for help second. It is THEIR federation afterall...

"Ask not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" John F. Kennedy

The above is so true and it perfectly applies to chess here!...