Ag. Item # 12 – Discussion of Motion 2010-07 – Amending the CYCC Rules

[Michael Barron]

Dear chess friends,

Thanks to all of you for participating in this discussion!

I would like to clarify:

We need to work on our youth program, because so far it hasn't worked out well enough.
The main problem - declining participation at the CYCC. As result, we can't pay transportation for the CYCC winner to go to the WYCC.

If some of you wasn't aware:
We guarantee only $1000 for winners of at least 8-player sections.
Additional funding depends on additional proceeds from the CYCC.

So, the first goal - to encourage participation at the CYCC.
As Chris said, You must participate in the CYCC if you want to play in one of those three events.

Next problem - low participation at American events.
As Patrick said, we have been represented by 0 - 6 players across all 12 sections at any of these events (often it has been 0 players at these events).
One of the reason - people are not aware of these event.

So, we need to remind people of their existence.

The intent of the Motion - to ENCOURAGE our youth players to go to these events, not limit them.

The Motion says only about OFFICIAL rep at the CYCC, Pan-Ams and NAYCC - 3 top finishers in every section.
As an additional player at Pan-Ams and NAYCC could participate any CYCC player.

Hope this clarify the situation.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Michael:

Am I correct in understanding that what this motion does is effectively increase the prizes at the CYCC, by making it that the representatives to the WYCC, Pan-American YCC, and the North American YCC will be the winners of the CYCC now?

If so, that seems like a good thing to me, to promote attendance at the CYCC - it will be a more attractive tournament. And this motion does not in any way prevent other juniors from deciding to attend any one of these tournaments on their own - they simply won't be the " official " Canadian Representative?

Also, Patrick has asked what system will be used in the case of a tie-break being necessary in awarding any of these three prizes? I take it this motion does not speak to that. Is there a current policy on this? Or is this a matter that will be decided in future by the Youth Committee?

Bob

[Patrick McDonald]

Here is the motion:

Motion 2010-07: (Moved/Seconded Michael Barron / John Coleman) To amend the CYCC rules to include the following:

"Canadian Youth Chess Championship is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions.
Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified for: 1) World Youth Chess Championship; 2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship; 3) North America Youth Chess Championship.

I am concerned over the wording perhaps ... As for the WYCC, I am fine with this.
As for the NAYCC and the PanAm, I am concerned in that this will effectively LIMIT the participation in these events.
I agree that they need to be mentioned, but limiting participation to the top 3 finishers in the CYCC will cut out a lot of the participation in these events. In the past, many if not most of the participants that have traveled to these events have been OTHER than the top 3 participants in the CYCC.
I will agree, however, that it would be a good idea to make participation in the CYCC a pre-requisite. The problem with this, though, is which CYCC will they have to have participated in ... esp. for an international tournament that happens to occur within perhaps a month of the CYCC. (Even if it is a week or two -3? 4? - after the CYCC, this is a huge travel burdon on the families of the participants) (For example, I know that a couple of years ago, there was great participation - relatively - in the NAYCC from B.C., and if they would have had to go to both the CYCC AND the NAYCC, this would have effectively doubled their costs over a short period of time)

[Christopher Mallon]

Require participation in a CYCC within the past 18 months before the start of the event they wish to play in, perhaps?

[Michael Barron]

Hi Michael:

Am I correct in understanding that what this motion does is effectively increase the prizes at the CYCC, by making it that the representatives to the WYCC, Pan-American YCC, and the North American YCC will be the winners of the CYCC now?

If so, that seems like a good thing to me, to promote attendance at the CYCC - it will be a more attractive tournament. And this motion does not in any way prevent other juniors from deciding to attend any one of these tournaments on their own - they simply won't be the " official " Canadian Representative?

Also, Patrick has asked what system will be used in the case of a tie-break being necessary in awarding any of these three prizes? I take it this motion does not speak to that. Is there a current policy on this? Or is this a matter that will be decided in future by the Youth Committee?

Bob

Hi Bob:

Thank you for good questions!

Yes, this motion effectively increases the number of prizes at the CYCC - there will be 3 prizes per section instead of one.

Yes, this motion does not in any way prevent other juniors from deciding to attend the Pan-American YCC and North American YCC on their own.
As for the WYCC - the current rule, which allow top 3 finishers per section to attend the WYCC, still will be in force.

Yes, this motion does not speak to a tie-break system being necessary in awarding top three prizes - it's authoirity of the CYCC organizers.
In a rare case, when all 3 prize winner will decline to participate in one of the tournaments, and 2 players tied at the CYCC for fourth or lower place are willing to participate, the CFC Youth Committee will decide who will be the official Canadian Representative.

[Patrick McDonald]

Yes, this motion effectively increases the number of prizes at the CYCC - there will be 3 prizes per section instead of one.

I don't see where the extra prizes are??
Are you saying that airfare will be provided now to the NAYCC and the Pan Ams as it is to the WYCC??

HOW CAN the CFC afford this?? the Prize to the WYCC has already been cut back from full airfare to just $1000 per age/gender section!

If the airfare is NOT being provided, how is this an additional prize as anyone can attend these events? (If one of the top 3 don't attend these events, then someone else will receive the accommodations as the official rep from Canada for that age/gender section.)

WHERE IS THE ADDITIONAL PRIZE??

Michael, I am sorry, but I fail to see your logic?

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Patrick:

Michael is best to answer you. But since he was responding to my earlier questions, here is what I understand now.

Before, who would represent Canada as the " Official Can. Rep ( = accomodation prize ) " at the Pan-American YCC or the North American YCC, was not spelled out anywhere. You could come second at the CYCC, and there was no assurance you would be the one to get the official accomodation prize for either of these tournaments. So what is the " new prize " is that under this motion, if you come second or third at the CYCC, you are guaranteed the " official Can. rep. " title for these tournaments.

However, IF one of the top three don't want to attend the tournament available to them, then the " official representative " prize will pass to the next winner ( fourth place finisher ). Should there be a tie for fourth in such a case, then the Youth Committee will break the tie.

I'm not sure, but I think if Can. still doesn't have a rep. after this system, then the " prize " of " official Can. rep. " will get assigned by the Youth Committee.

I fear to get in between Youth Coordinators here, when I am not directly involved, but if I have somehow got this wrong, please correct me.

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

After re-reading all explanations, I think, the wording of the motion is misleading.
"Canadian Youth Chess Championship is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions" - if you wanna go outside Canada, you must play in the CYCC, and it is a good intention to promote internal championships. However, "Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified for: 1) World Youth Chess Championship; 2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship; 3) North America Youth Chess Championship." - strictly reading, only three players per section can satisfy the first and the second sentences. However, movers intention were different (M.B.: "Yes, this motion does not in any way prevent other juniors from deciding to attend the Pan-American YCC and North American YCC on their own.")

Thus, I think, there is a need to add "are qualified to become official representatives for:"

Could a mover/seconder confirm/deny this?

[Michael Barron]

After re-reading all explanations, I think, the wording of the motion is misleading.
"Canadian Youth Chess Championship is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions" - if you wanna go outside Canada, you must play in the CYCC, and it is a good intention to promote internal championships. However, "Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified for: 1) World Youth Chess Championship; 2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship; 3) North America Youth Chess Championship." - strictly reading, only three players per section can satisfy the first and the second sentences. However, movers intention were different (M.B.: "Yes, this motion does not in any way prevent other juniors from deciding to attend the Pan-American YCC and North American YCC on their own.")

Thus, I think, there is a need to add "are qualified to become official representatives for:"

Could a mover/seconder confirm/deny this?

Yes, Egis, you are correct.

I would like to thank you and everybody else who discussed this Motion and helped make it more clear, and want to propose the amended version for the vote:

"Canadian Youth Chess Championship is a qualifier to international youth chess competitions.
Top 3 finishers in each section are qualified to become official representatives for:
1) World Youth Chess Championship;
2) Pan American Youth Chess Championship;
3) North American Youth Chess Championship."

John,
Are you agree with this amended version?

In addition, I would like to clarify a few points:
1) The Motion 2010-07 can't address ALL issues related to CYCC - I believe, we could discuss and resolve them one by one.
2) There is a difference between official representative and additional player. The right to represent Canada is a PRIZE which could be won at the CYCC.
3) Who will pay the airfare - it's a separate issue, not covered by the Motion 2010-07. We could discuss it separately.

[Patrick McDonald]

I can agree that players have to play in the CYCC to be "qualified" to represent Canada at these events.

BUT: I believe that for the NAYCC and the Pan Am, it should be something like: Players must have played in the previous CYCC in order to attend the NAYCC or the Pan Am. In circumstances where more than one player from any given age/gender section wishes to attend, the status of Official representative (the one that receives the Accommodations) will be the one that scores the highest in the respective CYCC.

If this is what you are after, than this is what should be stated.