Canadian Closed 2009 - Round 8 Reports!

[Kerry Liles]

The one fundamental flaw with the MonRoi is that some people don't like using them! DGT has the advantage of being basically "invisible" to the players. Although it is a fair bit pricier (650 euros for the wireless boards compared to $350 for a MonRoi device).

A long time ago I was corresponding with Monroi (when the devices first became available or were just pre-announced) and I asked whether their software would run under a standard PDA (Windows CE for example) and the answer was 'no'. I pointed out that having a proprietary (and closed) system precluded any convergence strategy (so one could use the device as a PDA when it wasn't being used for chess) ... I guess they were so far down the proprietary route they couldn't change their approach (and they seemed to not be interested).

IF there was Monroi capability in a Windows CE (or Palm Pre, or Iphone or perhaps even a Crackberry) I think it could then be sold as an application and be much more accessible; as it is now it is a hell of an expensive single-purpose toy.

[roger patterson]

A long time ago I was corresponding with Monroi (when the devices first became available or were just pre-announced) and I asked whether their software would run under a standard PDA (Windows CE for example) and the answer was 'no'. I pointed out that having a proprietary (and closed) system precluded any convergence strategy (so one could use the device as a PDA when it wasn't being used for chess) ... I guess they were so far down the proprietary route they couldn't change their approach (and they seemed to not be interested).

IF there was Monroi capability in a Windows CE (or Palm Pre, or Iphone or perhaps even a Crackberry) I think it could then be sold as an application and be much more accessible; as it is now it is a hell of an expensive single-purpose toy.

Such a device would also more easily run Pocket Fritz. As a result, it would probably be quickly banned from tournaments.

[Steve Douglas]

IF there was Monroi capability in a Windows CE (or Palm Pre, or Iphone or perhaps even a Crackberry) I think it could then be sold as an application and be much more accessible; as it is now it is a hell of an expensive single-purpose toy.

Hi Kerry:

As Roger pointed out, any device running any sort of "generic" OS which allows user-loaded applets would be a real problem with respect to cheating. People are already suspicious of the MonRoi device as it is since it does have an analysis mode (or so I understand).

Remember we presently have people claiming that writing your move down on a paper scoresheet before you move is illegal because *that* constitutes analysis.

The MonRoi device is known, at least in these parts, and I believe it has been sanctioned by FIDE. The only way I can see that you could allow a player to use a non-proprietary device in a tournament would be if the organizers supplied it. Even then you might have problems with people accidentally inserting flash memory cards containing the full ECO and the last 20 years of Informants....

A friend of mine got accused of cheating at a club game because he was "using a computer". It was a Blackberry. And if you had ever looked at either his rating or his gamescores, you would know that if he were cheating, he was badly in need of a software upgrade (his games look similar to mine--sigh).

Steve

[Kerry Liles]

Hi Kerry:

As Roger pointed out, any device running any sort of "generic" OS which allows user-loaded applets would be a real problem with respect to cheating. People are already suspicious of the MonRoi device as it is since it does have an analysis mode (or so I understand).

Remember we presently have people claiming that writing your move down on a paper scoresheet before you move is illegal because *that* constitutes analysis.

The MonRoi device is known, at least in these parts, and I believe it has been sanctioned by FIDE. The only way I can see that you could allow a player to use a non-proprietary device in a tournament would be if the organizers supplied it. Even then you might have problems with people accidentally inserting flash memory cards containing the full ECO and the last 20 years of Informants....

A friend of mine got accused of cheating at a club game because he was "using a computer". It was a Blackberry. And if you had ever looked at either his rating or his gamescores, you would know that if he were cheating, he was badly in need of a software upgrade (his games look similar to mine--sigh).

Steve

Good points. I neglected to mention that I had also asked Monroi about various aspects of their device: specifically, would it disallow an illegal move - and thus apparently have the potential to alert a player to some situation they were unaware of? I guess it *has* to do so - it hardly can be expected record an illegal move.

Alas, even GMs who leave the board after every move are now accused of 'somehow' cheating, so I guess this whole situation puts a damper on the game.

One nice feature of the Monroi is that recording one's games gives you instant access to a database of your own games - this is quite apart from the use of the device in a rated game or tournament. I understand the Monroi's have a 'rated game' mode where it cannot easily be then distracted...

I still like the idea of convergence but acknowlege there are issues (perhaps ones that cannot be overcome).

[Christopher Mallon]

A long time ago I was corresponding with Monroi (when the devices first became available or were just pre-announced) and I asked whether their software would run under a standard PDA (Windows CE for example) and the answer was 'no'. I pointed out that having a proprietary (and closed) system precluded any convergence strategy (so one could use the device as a PDA when it wasn't being used for chess) ... I guess they were so far down the proprietary route they couldn't change their approach (and they seemed to not be interested).

I was personally surprised that they got through the FIDE certification process - but they did. I have inquired as to whether or not they might be releasing some new hardware, since theirs is several years old now, and they said there are no plans for new hardware.

I have a number of concerns relating to having to manage their use in the Closed, including:

• Extremely slow usage of SD cards (we're talking over 1-2 minutes some times to transfer 6k of data)
• Unreliable battery remaining displays
• The above actually lead to four instances of the devices dying in the middle of a game with absolutely no warning
• Batteries charge very slowly and don't last for very long in game situations
• The screen is sometimes too sensitive and will record a "double-click" far too easily
• The devices are limited to SD cards of 256 megabytes or lower - becoming impossible to find these!
• The hub connects via a serial adapter - it should be a straight USB!
• The software cannot recover from a crash - if anything happens to the computer in mid-round, the devices are disconnected and you lose live broadcast for the remainder of that round.
• The software appears to function, even if it isn't - in round 8 we apparently had the wrong version installed, but we got no error message, it seemed to be happily communicating with the central server... but no games appeared in our browser. We were an hour into the round before we figured the problem out, and of course, there was no way to update the software mid-round to get it working.
• Last but very certainly not least, their site gave me a mega-virus when I went to install the hub software!

There's probably more, but those are the main points. Given these flaws one would think MonRoi would be more interested in modernizing their devices...

[Philip Feeley]

I see there are still only round 8 and 9 games at Monroi. Any idea when the others will be available?

With regard to the difficulties during this tournament, Monroi covers tournaments all over and this is the first time I've heard of any problems. The US Closed was here earlier this year and I saw all the rounds. I've watched many competitions live at Monroi and everything was fine. Why were the problems you had so unique?

[Christopher Mallon]

I doubt they are unique, but it was my first time using them (without assistance anyway) so maybe everyone else has learned to get around all these other problems?

There's nothing catastrophic in the list (other than the virus) but it all adds up in my books.

[Garland Best]

I know a little about Monroi, in that the founders initially developed a wireless transmission/communication system, similar in concept to Bluetooth / WI-FI, but longer transmission range. They wanted to sell it to people to make remote monitoring systems. As the founder was a chess buff, they thought of the system as way to promote their technology.

This is part of the reason their system is proprietory. The hardware is unique, so no Windows CE devices etc support it.

[Jason Manley]

"Remember we presently have people claiming that writing your move down on a paper scoresheet before you move is illegal because *that* constitutes analysis."

Is that illegal? I write my moves down before making them almost all of the time, and only stop doing that if my opponent comments about it. Would that be deemed to be illegal?

[Kerry Liles]

"Remember we presently have people claiming that writing your move down on a paper scoresheet before you move is illegal because *that* constitutes analysis."

Is that illegal? I write my moves down before making them almost all of the time, and only stop doing that if my opponent comments about it. Would that be deemed to be illegal?

Worrying about people writing down their moves (on their own time!) just before they make them is typical FIDE stupidity. No wonder the public's perception of chess is what it is.