Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: A thought experiment

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tecumseh, ON
    Posts
    3,268
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default A thought experiment

    The question came up in the AGM about the idea that FIDE was going to give 60000 Euros to the CFC. It is not a totally outlandish idea as the discussion has come up though not in that particular amount. Many federations do already get significant sums of money from FIDE to attend FIDE meetings and Olympiads. The CFC got some small amount that did not fully cover the cost of sending our FIDE delegate, Hal Bond but every little bit helps. I think Ireland and Scotland got quite a bit more.


    If we did get 60,000 Euros or $87,782.81 CAD from FIDE or some other source with the understanding that we should use it to advance chess in Canada, how would you spend it? Suppose you would get a similar amount every year from now into eternity. What projects should be undertaken? Suppose that you had to provide a report to FIDE or the donor at the end of the year showing forward progress (more children and adults playing chess, more titled players - FMs, WFMs, IMs, WIMs, GMs, WGMs, more FIDE games played). How would more money help us move the ball forward as far as chess in Canada and Canadian Chess in the World is concerned?


    How would your answer change if the amount was 30,000 Euros or 100,000 Euros?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tecumseh, ON
    Posts
    3,268
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge Archambault View Post
    Hello Vlad,

    As I mentioned on CT and on the CFC forums here, a decent Canadian Women Championship cycle (including qualifiers) comes to mind. Norm tournaments for women as well.
    Also, it would be easier for organizers to submit bids for the Canadian Amateur championship if money was to be allowed to the winner to qualify for the World Amateur Championship.
    Generally speaking, I always favor tournaments, for kids or adults, that allow qualification for international events such as Continental, Pan-Am, Commonwealth, World, etc...

    With more recurrent money, I'd love to see the CFC organize (or support a Canadian bid) on FIDE events.
    With less money I'd favor support to the arbiter's titles (and more formation, in Quebec, we have LTD, RTD and STD programs), instructors and organizers programs as well.
    The Canadian Amateur Championship is the creation of the Kitchener Chess Festival organizers as far as I can see.

    We are always looking at and talking about FIDE events. They tend to require very large investments of government money in order to be viable. Also to get an established event there is a great deal of politics that comes into play. I think creating a new FIDE event which we can put on for the first and perhaps even the second iteration as happened with the North American Junior U20 might also be a good course of action. The Commonwealth Championship could be organized in Canada especially with the proposed changes which do not require as many official players. We would need significant government or business sponsorship.

    How would you support arbiters' titles? This sounds like something that might be done now.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    2,235
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default

    I'd use it to switch the Closed and Women's Closed to a proper invitational round robin if you want to develop the higher levels. Maybe run the Junior at the same time.

    To develop chess as a whole... I still like the "National Chess Week" idea we talked about back in 2004 or so, with some seed money you could make it go a lot farther.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tecumseh, ON
    Posts
    3,268
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    What are the details of the "National Chess Week" idea?

    To make the Closed an invitational round robin might make it difficult to get community sponsorship as we had this year and will have for three more years in Kingston.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario National Master Former Gov.
    Posts
    10,761
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    The question came up in the AGM about the idea that FIDE was going to give 60000 Euros to the CFC. It is not a totally outlandish idea as the discussion has come up though not in that particular amount. Many federations do already get significant sums of money from FIDE to attend FIDE meetings and Olympiads. The CFC got some small amount that did not fully cover the cost of sending our FIDE delegate, Hal Bond but every little bit helps. I think Ireland and Scotland got quite a bit more.


    If we did get 60,000 Euros or $87,782.81 CAD from FIDE or some other source with the understanding that we should use it to advance chess in Canada, how would you spend it? Suppose you would get a similar amount every year from now into eternity. What projects should be undertaken? Suppose that you had to provide a report to FIDE or the donor at the end of the year showing forward progress (more children and adults playing chess, more titled players - FMs, WFMs, IMs, WIMs, GMs, WGMs, more FIDE games played). How would more money help us move the ball forward as far as chess in Canada and Canadian Chess in the World is concerned?


    How would your answer change if the amount was 30,000 Euros or 100,000 Euros?
    Hi Vlad

    I didn't think it was like you to indulge in much 'iffy' thinking (I've been put down for doing such myself in the past); anyway, here's part of a cut and paste (and re-numbering) from a blog entry of mine re: goals the CFC might set for itself (many goals omitted, to suit the present thread) - what I'm putting here includes the CFC simply getting things back to what they used to be as much as can be done with a lot of new cash, plus, for starters anyway, some ideas for going beyond that (again with the use of a lot of new cash):


    1. Have a server available one day for CFC members that's ready to be used;
    2. Figure out how to promote chess better [as exciting] {cultural activity} - if nothing else, someday might have TV/Newspaper commercial(s) with a chess set plus refreshments on coffee table or picnic bench (no people present), with caption reminding people of chess in their childhood (asking if they would they like to brush up in a big way, then give CFC website address);
    3. Promote rated Sections, or even whole events (by the use of cash incentives for organizers), designed to bring in many newcomers (takes advertising);
    4. Improve CFC website, the face of the CFC (main page currently looks jumbled);
    5. Might improve CFC Discussion Board, e.g. have specialized forums for non-Chess topics (compare e.g. OzChess, the Australian chess message board);
    6. Provide some thing(s) for non-elite player adult CFC members (e.g. more funding for some types of local events);
    7. Encourage growth of Canadian chess clubs (e.g. more discounts - maybe there's the possibility that the CFC might one day negotiate an arrangement with CMA/(equipment supplier[s]) to allow the CFC to indirectly offer discounts to clubs [and perhaps their members]);
    8. Lots of [big] clubs helps promote team chess eventually too - could have team chess on internet as well;
    9. CFC a force for chess education, e.g. core subject in schools;
    10. Provide seperate Active and Blitz ratings;
    11. Provide print CFC magazine again eventually;
    12. Get a CFC physical office (and store) again eventually;
    13. Besides chess books & equipment, CFC can sell e.g. T-shirts or perhaps even Canadian elite chess player [post]cards (with data);
    14. Provide CFC Bughouse ratings eventually (perhaps same for Chess960, Crazyhouse & even other chess variants) - this may be more workable in the beginning if & when a chess server is up and running, if variants can be added as an option, but even now non-CFC rated Canadian bughouse events are increasing, as internet reveals;
    15. Eventually lower CFC membership fees (e.g. by $3?);
    16. Eventually lower CFC rating fees (e.g. by $1?).
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario National Master Former Gov.
    Posts
    10,761
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    What are the details of the "National Chess Week" idea?
    If I remember right, the idea was to have nationwide simultaneous exhibitions in the space of a week that was to publicly be called National Chess Week, with sought-after media coverage in order to promote chess and the CFC in Canada. The Governors approved the idea circa 2004. The problem may have been that no one to co-ordinate the effort was found, and it also seemed, afaik, that as well as that, no volunteers of any sort offered to step forward to carry out even a single simul. I've never been on the CFC Exec though, so it's hard for me to know exactly what happened to the idea. Seed money will only help in future if the infrastructure (volunteers) is already in place, or hopefully can be put in place if the promise of said money is enticing enough for the volunteers (organizers), IMHO. It does seem unlikely that any substantial number of, e.g., VMs would quickly step forward, based on what did not happen in 2004.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tecumseh, ON
    Posts
    3,268
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    Hi Vlad

    I didn't think it was like you to indulge in much 'iffy' thinking (I've been put down for doing such myself in the past); anyway, here's part of a cut and paste (and re-numbering) from a blog entry of mine re: goals the CFC might set for itself (many goals omitted, to suit the present thread) - what I'm putting here includes the CFC simply getting things back to what they used to be as much as can be done with a lot of new cash, plus, for starters anyway, some ideas for going beyond that (again with the use of a lot of new cash):


    1. Have a server available one day for CFC members that's ready to be used;
    Done. Its called FIDE Arena and apparently because of the deal that we made a few years ago, CFC members have advantages over USCF members.

    2. Figure out how to promote chess better [as exciting] {cultural activity} - if nothing else, someday might have TV/Newspaper commercial(s) with a chess set plus refreshments on coffee table or picnic bench (no people present), with caption reminding people of chess in their childhood (asking if they would they like to brush up in a big way, then give CFC website address);
    To run such an ad campaign would likely cost more than our entire revenue stream. Every person that I get these days comes from an internet search. You still have to talk to the newspapers and big news providers and have those things posted on the internet.

    3. Promote rated Sections, or even whole events (by the use of cash incentives for organizers), designed to bring in many newcomers (takes advertising);
    See 2. Everything you spend on advertising has to at least pay for itself.

    4. Improve CFC website, the face of the CFC (main page currently looks jumbled);
    It is jumbled but at least everything is there.

    5. Might improve CFC Discussion Board, e.g. have specialized forums for non-Chess topics (compare e.g. OzChess, the Australian chess message board);
    Our mission is not to promote non-chess topics.

    6. Provide some thing(s) for non-elite player adult CFC members (e.g. more funding for some types of local events);
    We had lots of funding for local events when we were doing Windsor Chess Association events using bingo funds. The end result was that 1500 players didn't want to play unless there were significant prizes for them. They also didn't want to help support the fundraising at bingos. The people who were supporting and volunteering for the bingos got annoyed and everything went back to the way it was before.

    7. Encourage growth of Canadian chess clubs (e.g. more discounts - maybe there's the possibility that the CFC might one day negotiate an arrangement with CMA/(equipment supplier[s]) to allow the CFC to indirectly offer discounts to clubs [and perhaps their members]);
    8. Lots of [big] clubs helps promote team chess eventually too - could have team chess on internet as well;
    9. CFC a force for chess education, e.g. core subject in schools;
    10. Provide seperate Active and Blitz ratings;
    11. Provide print CFC magazine again eventually;

    9. Its a goal but kind of difficult for a CFC volunteer board to do this across Canada when education is a provincial responsibility. There have to be individuals across Canada approaching local school boards.
    10. Not feasible with the current manpower.
    11. Way too expensive. We would have to triple CFC dues and that probably wouldn't be enough.
    12. Not feasible or necessary at this time. The CFC almost went bankrupt because of the office and store. Things are tougher now.

    12. Get a CFC physical office (and store) again eventually;
    13. Besides chess books & equipment, CFC can sell e.g. T-shirts or perhaps even Canadian elite chess player [post]cards (with data);
    Have you looked at the retail landscape for books and clothing? How are you going to do this and not lose lots of money? Also it would likely cause issues with our non-profit status.

    14. Provide CFC Bughouse ratings eventually (perhaps same for Chess960, Crazyhouse & even other chess variants) - this may be more workable in the beginning if & when a chess server is up and running, if variants can be added as an option, but even now non-CFC rated Canadian bughouse events are increasing, as internet reveals;
    15. Eventually lower CFC membership fees (e.g. by $3?);
    16. Eventually lower CFC rating fees (e.g. by $1?).
    14. When the job we are doing for regular chess is perfect we can think of extending the brand. You are asking for a lot more work for little or no more revenue. Bob Gillanders is stretched to the breaking point and we probably need to double in size to even be thinking about adding someone.
    15. and 16. All this and you want to lower revenues? Fees go down simply by virtue of the fact that there have been no increases in CFC fees for as long as I can remember and inflation eats into everything.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario National Master Former Gov.
    Posts
    10,761
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    That's funny. I thought the spirit of this thread was to ask, what if the CFC had an influx of tons of money, e.g. every year. Within the years to come, in that case, resources and membership would hopefully grow as a matter of course.

    I had hoped you would see the advantages to chess promotion of Canadian chess players writing to each other even more on message board(s), even if it's about non-chess topics. Strengthening bonds is important, and players are curious to see how other players perceive non-chess topics (which also could aid in gathering demographic information); at the very least it's a different service that the CFC can offer, to hopefully help attract more members. In case you had not noticed, this CFC Discussion Board, which almost exclusively focuses on chess-related topics, has been pretty inactive for ages, not counting CFC meetings or relatively recent threads started by myself (partly to try to help revive things). Perhaps you're happy with it that way, if you see yourself as a kind of fireman on chess message boards whenever any sort of 'smoke' arises.

    What almost bankrupted the CFC, actually, was losing about 1,000 members between 2004-2007.
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 09-02-2019 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Adding content
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tecumseh, ON
    Posts
    3,268
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    That's funny. I thought the spirit of this thread was to ask, what if the CFC had an influx of tons of money, e.g. every year. Within the years to come, in that case, resources and membership would hopefully grow as a matter of course.

    I had hoped you would see the advantages to chess promotion of Canadian chess players writing to each other even more on message board(s), even if it's about non-chess topics. Strengthening bonds is important, and players are curious to see how other players perceive non-chess topics (which also could aid in gathering demographic information); at the very least it's a different service that the CFC can offer, to hopefully help attract more members. In case you had not noticed, this CFC Discussion Board, which almost exclusively focuses on chess-related topics, has been pretty inactive for ages, not counting CFC meetings or relatively recent threads started by myself (partly to try to help revive things). Perhaps you're happy with it that way, if you see yourself as a kind of fireman on chess message boards whenever any sort of 'smoke' arises.

    What almost bankrupted the CFC, actually, was losing about 1,000 members between 2004-2007.
    They lost almost 1000 members because people got irritated that their orders were not being fulfilled in a timely basis. I have spent many hours talking to people about what happened back then.

    Chesstalk has been calmer of late, I suspect in part because I can be unpleasant when we are attacked unfairly. I talk to many more people who are afraid to go on chesstalk because of the trolls and the attacks that would follow. I don't care about the attacks as I feel that I give better than I get but not everyone is comfortable with that and people get upset when I respond in kind to people who are simply trying to cause trouble. We are never going to tolerate that type of environment here. I appreciate that you have worked to help chess in the past and you do generate lots of content here. A lot of things are not possible because we don't have the manpower or womanpower or whatever the government wants us to call it. There are many programs that went by the wayside because we couldn't throw any resources at it. Remember that the members of the executive still have to earn a living in addition to the hours devoted to the CFC.

    Boards can be a worry as they can lead to defamation and have to be monitored closely. At least if the topic is chess, the arguments are likely not to get too heated.

    If things continue as they are, we will slowly grow, there may be FIDE or government money in our future and it is good to have a shopping list but in all likelihood there will be a component of "Own the podium" in either of those two scenarios so we will have to show results for at least some of that funding to continue.
    Last edited by Vladimir Drkulec; 09-02-2019 at 03:29 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario National Master Former Gov.
    Posts
    10,761
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    I see all that. One thing I'm still wondering about is, in a fantasy scenario (as in this present thread), if the CFC ever does get an influx of scads of cash each year, all of a sudden, why is it assumed that e.g. paid TV spot ads for the CFC would automatically fail? Back at the dawn of TV advertising, people must have resolved simply to try advertising whatever their product was on TV, and simply hope for the best. Even though nowadays the CFC would have safer alternatives, taking a chance on a one-time TV spot just might pay off, or it might fail (and then the case would be proven). Of course, the CFC should not do so if it cannot yet afford to lose the investment. In any case, free community TV spots might be available in some cities still. Still, I also cannot shake the feeling that there might be a certain lack of confidence in the ability of organized chess to sell itself in Canada, in a way that cannot outdo even a kid's cereal (which is a truly optional product, too).

    Perhaps any unexpected large annual influx of cash for the CFC might be best spent on somehow improving the CFC's infrastructure, such as hiring another staff member (if somehow useful), if I was to look at things as conservatively as I could.

    edit: Incidentally your initial reply to me, that included indicating that the CFC has had some sort of a server deal for a while now, was big news to me. I thought I was seeing things (as I am prone to do now and then), or that I somehow exasperated you to the point that you told a whopper to shake me off. I hope the CFC is making that FIDE server tidbit well known (though as I alluded to in other threads, I don't go to the CFC website, the FIDE website or even CT due to my fear of getting my aging laptop somehow infected, even if I'm being irrational about all that at this point in time).
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 09-02-2019 at 08:17 PM.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •