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Thread: Wiki re: Goal setting

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierre Dénommée View Post
    The CFC has Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws. The former are hard to modify not only because of the price to be paid to Ottawa, but also because some changes may give voting rights to members who usually do not have such right.

    Bylaws are easy to change, they are only filed with Ottawa, they are usually not reviewed.
    That's fairly reassuring. Now, hopefully if sooner or later the CFC sets out to come up with (or begin to execute) a (revised?!) long-term plan (with goals and sub-goals), it won't cause the CFC too much trouble to deal with the federal gov't, to begin implementing the steps of said plan when it involves changing the Handbook. Last time I looked, there was some interest at a recent VM meeting to come up with such a (new!?) long-term plan, as the following thread shows; note that the 2012 plan quoted seems to be missing the specific recommendations section, unless I missed it:

    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...ng-Plan-Update

    Here's a link that does include those specific recommendations:

    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...oto=nextoldest
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-09-2019 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Grammar
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    That's fairly reassuring. Now, hopefully if sooner or later the CFC sets out to come up with (or begin to execute) a (revised?!) long-term plan (with goals and sub-goals), it won't cause the CFC too much trouble to deal with the federal gov't, to begin implementing the steps of said plan when it involves changing the Handbook. Last time I looked, there was some interest at a recent VM meeting to come up with such a (new!?) long-term plan, as the following thread shows; note that the 2012 plan quoted seems to be missing the specific recommendations section, unless I missed it:

    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...ng-Plan-Update

    Here's a link that does include those specific recommendations:

    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...oto=nextoldest
    A revised plan would have no implications with the government. The issue is that preparing a plan is a lot of work and there is little appetite to implement the recommendations if we can't find additional volunteers to do the work.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    A revised plan would have no implications with the government. The issue is that preparing a plan is a lot of work and there is little appetite to implement the recommendations if we can't find additional volunteers to do the work.
    Looking at the specific recommendations of the old 2012 long-term plan, at least (see second link I gave in my previous post), the only work that would seem (to me) to require additional volunteers would be:

    Identify and help expand the number of local champions (organizers) to step forward for the game in all major population centers to run tournaments, found chess clubs (especially junior chess clubs) and chess teaching programs to help increase the popularity of chess.

    Providing outstanding member service and improve communications with our members.

    Increase visibility and enhance the image of chess and chess players.


    Well, I'm not sure the second item would take additional volunteers (the other two would seem more clear). That is, more organizers (including club founders) and chess teachers are thought needed nationally, besides people to publicize organized Canadian chess on behalf of the CFC/clubs.

    I think we have a good number of chess teachers and coaches nowadays (especially if we count online instruction, even from outside Canada), without even considering what the CMA contributes to Canadian junior chess alone.

    Getting more organizers (and funds for a standard membership drive, if deemed desirable) seems one of the biggest problems. At the same time, if the CFC's membership keeps going up slowly but surely, something like e.g. 1 in 50 new players might one day get involved with organizing. What I see as a real problem is the mindset a lot of Old Guard organizers have, in that they do what they have done in the past for chess, and have little desire to strike out in a new direction, e.g. to advertise on behalf of their events and/or clubs in order to acquire more newbies - instead they hope these come to them, and they hope that said newbies already have some idea of how organized chess will work for them.

    I think even if the CFC had adequate funds for a standard membership drive, a lot of the Old Guard would not be interested in participating. And, the Old Guard, when teaching new organizers the ropes (if they do) simply tell them to keep doing things the same old way. So, the new blood in terms of CFC members comes mainly just from juniors these days (it would seem), who tend to exit playing en mass as they become adults. Meanwhile, I suspect a lot of organizers are perhaps camera-shy, and actually don't want the media showing up at their tournaments in progress, at least (as one organizer in Toronto remarked in front of me that he didn't, back in the 1980s, even). Long ago things would have had to have been different, when the CFC was in its infancy. Then there would have been no choice but to do a membership drive, at least locally everywhere in Canada. Since then we've been hardly trying at all to bring in new blood (especially in terms of adults or even seniors) - instead we hope they come to us, and meanwhile old-time CFC members faceoff against each other with a high regularity that's sort of akin to long-time inbreeding.

    At my fortunate chess club in Ottawa, there's no lack of organizers (maybe we are the exception). It's just that, as I alluded to above, when they organize, their advertising is limited to online (and in circles already dedicated to organized chess), or announcing an event in advance at the club. Otherwise, if word of mouth brings in the odd newbie off the street, that's just dandy, but hardly sought after. Our club barely has enough tables and chairs at the moment for when the club is at its peak points of the season - though we could ask the building to provide us with more tables and chairs if we needed them, and maybe use the skittles room for serious play, but there seems little desire on the part of organizers to strain themselves unnecessarily that way as part of trying to get more newbies through extra advertising, e.g. in free community papers or free advertising community TV stations.
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-09-2019 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Adding content
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    ...
    Identify and help expand the number of local champions (organizers) to step forward for the game in all major population centers to run tournaments, found chess clubs (especially junior chess clubs) and chess teaching programs to help increase the popularity of chess.
    ...

    ...
    Back in the 1980s I was involved in a Peel region team chess league for non-CFC-rated inter-club competition; about 8 clubs would meet about once a month at the Mississauga club's site (I came from Brampton, quite a drive away for our team members; some other teams even came from parts of Toronto). The league functioned fairly well that decade (if not beyond). The only problem I saw when I lived in Brampton is that older players at many such local clubs would at the time brush aside any suggestion that they become CFC members; 'What's in it for us'? was the refrain. I'm not sure more organizers would have helped the situation.

    Anyway, I'm meaning now to tell a tale of two cities/regions, with far more detail lavished on Ottawa-Gatineau (where I now reside). Back in the early 2000s there were at least 8 chess clubs that I knew of here, of varying sizes (Nortel CC, Kanata CC, Kanata Junior CC, the RACC, Ottawa U CC, Carleton U CC, Ottawa CC and at least one club in Gatineau; RACC is by far the largest and still the city's main club). Gradually a number of these were whittled away, though some new (small) ones sprang up now and then, temporarily, only to all fade away, afaik. What's even sadder is that one organizer tried to revive the old city team league action via contacting the 8 clubs, but nothing came of it. Many years before, I've heard, the league that did exist died off because the teams would meet at the RACC, but some club(s) complained that they had to do the heaviest driving (i.e. to the host RACC). A sad contrast with the troopers living in Peel, at least back in the 1980s. It also goes to show that a one-size-fits all approach to organizing clubs/leagues may not always work, depending on the city and the collection of chess personalities involved.

    In Brampton in the 1970-80's I was the club's TD for a decade or more, and was even a CFC Governor for a year (when OCA Vice-Prez). When I came to Ottawa in 1989 I concentrated on just playing for a long while. Then I met NJF and became slightly interested in chess governance, though it took a while to take the plunge, after spending some time posting/reading this and that on NJFs message board and on chesstalk (NJF in effect later burned his bridges in 2007). Anyway, my resources are limited, even with also being on ODSP support (no car is one thing lacking). However, at one point I toured Ottawa looking at this and that library, to see if cheap/free rent could get a room, if a chess club was ever to be situated there (the Kanata CC of old was in a library, for example). The rooms weren't always that big, but I reported my search results to a certain organizer, if he should run with any of the libraries; apparently, he never did. He did host a certain chess club in this and that place (e.g. a Chapters store room) at times back then, though. Another 2-man search effort looking for a games club (including chess) site close to where I live didn't pan out for me, either. Part of my desire to see more chess clubs in town was simply that there's a large gap between the RACC in the southeast and Kanata (far to the west) - not only that, but maybe a team league could eventually become more likely again. However, I think most people are accustomed to simply driving or busing to the RACC, if they don't live on the Quebec side (nowadays many from there go to RACC instead/too, since a lot of the region's best players go there). I think all that's left in Kanata is the junior club nowadays. In any case, I don't think Ottawa organizers from, e.g., the RACC are raring to go out and found another chess club in the city, perhaps especially as there's a long history of clubs failing. So, I for one am left with just long-dead fantasies, and also a lack of resources that made them that way.

    I'm also still wondering why the CFC can't even have a business plan, like any other sort of business really has to have, and is giving up on having such before even really trying to make it work (even a little bit).
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    I think even if the CFC had adequate funds for a standard membership drive, a lot of the Old Guard would not be interested in participating. And, the Old Guard, when teaching new organizers the ropes (if they do) simply tell them to keep doing things the same old way. So, the new blood in terms of CFC members comes mainly just from juniors these days (it would seem), who tend to exit playing en mass as they become adults. Meanwhile, I suspect a lot of organizers are perhaps camera-shy, and actually don't want the media showing up at their tournaments in progress, at least (as one organizer in Toronto remarked in front of me that he didn't, back in the 1980s, even). Long ago things would have had to have been different, when the CFC was in its infancy. Then there would have been no choice but to do a membership drive, at least locally everywhere in Canada. Since then we've been hardly trying at all to bring in new blood (especially in terms of adults or even seniors) - instead we hope they come to us, and meanwhile old-time CFC members faceoff against each other with a high regularity that's sort of akin to long-time inbreeding.

    At my fortunate chess club in Ottawa, there's no lack of organizers (maybe we are the exception). It's just that, as I alluded to above, when they organize, their advertising is limited to online (and in circles already dedicated to organized chess), or announcing an event in advance at the club. Otherwise, if word of mouth brings in the odd newbie off the street, that's just dandy, but hardly sought after. Our club barely has enough tables and chairs at the moment for when the club is at its peak points of the season - though we could ask the building to provide us with more tables and chairs if we needed them, and maybe use the skittles room for serious play, but there seems little desire on the part of organizers to strain themselves unnecessarily that way as part of trying to get more newbies through extra advertising, e.g. in free community papers or free advertising community TV stations.
    Any advertising campaign has to result in more revenue than it costs (at least on a net present value approach to cash flows that go out and come in due to any particular campaign). There is no advertising medium aside from the internet and forums which will result in positive cash flows from advertising chess related events. We get free advertising in effect when chess is featured on tv and radio but the economies of scale are not there for advertising tournaments on anything like tv, radio or newspapers unless the ads are free in which case it doesn't hurt to use these free ads. Organizers have limited time so they will probably concentrate their efforts on what works and has worked in the past.

  6. #26
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    Not sure I understand the explanation on advertising campaigns' revenue requirement. Anyhow, in the old days the (then non-CFC oriented) Brampton club I referred to at least tried to proactively recruit newbies as club members every summer, prior to their new season (besides have someone phone the previous season's members). The Brampton CC would use the free community TV and newspaper ads. They'd also have a top club player give a simultaneous exhibition at a mall near the club (where club literature was available, and a club Exec on hand to answer questions); I thought maybe the club could do these things at least twice a year, but otherwise an 'A' for effort. I'm not aware of my club in Ottawa doing any of these things (though again they have ample members already, currently - but why not go for more?). Also, with the advent of the internet, besides chess forums I've wondering if there's other places/forums on the internet that Canadian chess organizers could freely place notices re: clubs/organized chess, to get the attention of many potential chess newbies... you'd think there would be.

    I'd note that the old 2012 long-term CFC plan apparently didn't go entirely without any implementation (at least: the agreement with CMA by CFC, though in sales rather than junior chess afaik, and agreement with FQE by CFC, notwithstanding the current uncertainty). If there's to be no revised plan (not sure that's certain), at least there's on-the-fly mini-plans or kinds of maneuvers the CFC might continue to try, perhaps also looking to salvage anything more from the 2012 plan. I suppose progress would be progress, however slow.
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-12-2019 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    Pierre is correct. Most constitutional changes require a two thirds vote. If there was a good reason for a change, I am sure that a two thirds vote would be possible with the right persuasion. Bylaws only require a majority vote in most cases. Adding a class of corporate members might have been a good idea at the time of the NFP changeover but the waters were muddy enough back then that we didn't want to add to the complexity.
    On the topic of adding CFC membership types, decades ago I recall the CFC had a discounted two-year (otherwise ordinary) membership option, which was quietly dropped after a while, for some reason.

    In the early 2000s (on a Canadian message board), with this in mind, I floated the idea of discounted two-year and three-year (otherwise ordinary) CFC membership options, at $4 off two times the (then usual) one-year membership price for the two-year idea, and at $12 off three times the one-year membership price for the three-year idea. Well, I got just two responses, both from players who in effect thought they'd be being ripped off if they just bought a one-year membership under the proposal (one even anonymously compared it to a Ponzi scheme ). Chess players often seem to have some strange and/or cheap ways of thinking, even about a very common business practice (discounts).

    P.S.: Forgot to mention that the discounts concept that I floated could take effect after a possible $4 increase to a one-year membership (in case of a [theoretical] zero-risk tolerance by the CFC).
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-12-2019 at 07:26 AM.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    ...
    the economies of scale are not there for advertising tournaments on anything like tv, radio or newspapers unless the ads are free in which case it doesn't hurt to use these free ads. Organizers have limited time so they will probably concentrate their efforts on what works and has worked in the past.
    As I alluded to, many Old Guard organizers do seem to be creatures of habit. I don't think it's nearly always because they have severely limited time, either. The question to me would seem to be, how to motivate many of them to start working even a little harder, re: recruiting newbies? First of all, do many organizers want a lot of chess beginners suddenly showing up, even? - it may take special organizer training/people to delicately TD a beginner's section in a club/event, in that case, perhaps not always strictly enforcing rules, unless cash prizes are involved. Also, unlike organized tennis or hockey, I suppose, a chess tournament takes e.g. a whole solid weekend without much of a break, and I've heard the odd organizer tell me that even if they were paid a little more, they'd make more working overtime at their job on the weekend, so even if the CFC gave them a cut of each new membership they brought in, it would hardly motivate them to try to recruit say 30 newbies through e.g. doing the extra work getting cheap/free advertising.

    Related to any possible planning by the CFC, perhaps, now that I've mentioned organized tennis and hockey, I can see how these can facilitate integrating new players, even juniors, as I suspect the atmosphere is often more sociable than at a chess club at the start of the evening, before quiet is a must during the play of games. In the few chess clubs I've been in, most are fairly quiet even before the evening round starts simply since the adult members are busy playing practice games against each other (often blitz, with a clock) - they seem to consider that part of their enjoyment of the club. Asking them to socialize with quite a number of new junior players, instead of enjoying their own practice games, presents rather a dilemma. If only one or two juniors show up, things may be easier (even then, a club Exec member would do the socializing, at least on the first night [if not anymore after]). The real social activity at a club often is the post-mortem analysis of a game, possibly followed by going to a nearby bar (if any), though unrelated talk to chess can also come in at that time. However, for juniors and their parents, they usually don't know this is coming later in the evening, if they get to socialize then much at all.
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-12-2019 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Spelling
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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  9. #29
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    I neglected to comment on the issue that there's also the interests of elite Canadian players that should be taken into account (besides juniors, adults, seniors, female players...). As a mere master (and being somewhat altruistic) I've tended to identify more with the lot of class players, and hence many of my ideas for improving Canadian chess have come at a certain neglect to the elite. Perhaps GM Kevin Spraggett and IM Jean Hebert's attitudes are typical, in that they think chess should be built from the top down rather than bottom up. That is, produce more very strong players with policies somehow supporting that, and we may wind up with someone like Magnus Carlsen, who will bring much needed publicity to our game, right here in Canada, even (though I've always thought, good luck with that ever happening, at least as far as Canada ever producing a top [adult] male world elite player).

    One day long ago, after I had posted stuff on a message board typical of my own thinking about building Canadian chess, GM Spraggett replied that I had identified many problems with Canadian chess, congratulated me for that, and then told me I was talented and should just be a player. Later, at my club, an old friend (henchman?) of his told me the same thing when we found ourselves in the men's room one day. After a while I took the advice, when all my ideas to try to improve Canadian chess that were posted on message boards (including the VM one) became exhausted, and largely ignored or dismissed. I'd also note Halldor once told me what the CFC needs is more organizers [i.e. hopefully materializing], and 'a thinker' somewhere is not going to solve the problem. The best hope for faster membership increases, I'd now say (assuming no revised long-term plan comes), is for the CFC/organizers to somehow try to publicize chess more, and hope more people become members (and then some later will become new organizers, and help grow the membership even more).
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 08-12-2019 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Spelling
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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