Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: 7B. Rating of Foreign Players (Paul Leblanc / Fred McKim)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,709

    Default 7B. Rating of Foreign Players (Paul Leblanc / Fred McKim)

    Moved by Paul Leblanc, seconded by Fred McKim.

    Replace existing CFC Handbook article 436

    New Article:

    436. Rating Non-Residents. If a non-resident player or new Canadian resident has a USCF or FIDE rating, the rating system in which the player has played the most recent games will be used to determine his first CFC rating. If a non-resident is inactive in Canada for a year but has a change in his USCF or FIDE rating, his CFC rating will be adjusted accordingly

    Old Article:
    436. Foreign Events and Ratings. If a foreign player has a rating in his own country or from FIDE, that will be used to determine his first CFC rating. If he is inactive in Canada for a year but has a change in his foreign rating, his changed foreign rating will be used to recalculated his CFC rating.

    New residents of Canada without a CFC rating are considered unrated, whether or not they have a foreign rating.



    Reason: The existing article does not give clear guidance to the CFC office. Also, it is not logical to treat new residents as unrated if they have a USCF or FIDE rating.

  2. #2

    Default

    What if the player has no FIDE or USCF rating, but a good national rating (from another country)? Would you still give him a rating of zero?

    Also, should we consider FQE ratings when determining one's first CFC rating? At the CYCC or NAYCC, some young Quebec players with relatively good ratings (1600+) were listed with a rating of 0 for the CFC.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    694

    Default

    We considered including all national ratings but felt that the CFC office would be bogged down trying to determine conversion ratios. Almost all non-resident players have USCF or FIDE ratings. I hadn't thought of FQE members as "non-residents" but you do have a good point. Perhaps we need Article 436.a "FQE rated players will be rated in a similar manner". I need a bit of help here - are FQE and CFC ratings equivalent?
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    FQE vs. CFC - there have been studies done in previous years that tended to show FQE under-rated but nothing I am aware of in the past 3 years.

    It should be emphasized here that all of this relates to calculating CFC ratings. In doing Swiss pairings where a CFC rating doesn't exist (such as your typical US player with a USCF rating or foreign player with a FIDE rating) or is believed to be out of date (for instance a Quebec junior who several years back had a CFC provisional rating but has not played in CFC events for several years and is known to have been an active FQE player - you could substitute USCF equally well here) the TD is expected to make an estimate based on the best evidence he/she has available for pairing purposes.

    [And yes I've been there done that - I directed Yan Teplitsky's first Canadian tournament where I was presented with an Informant and told 'yes that's me' and had a prominent junior and his father vouch for him. I confess I was a bit skeptical around move 20 when he was down an exchange vs a B player but he came back and won - and after 3 events was 14.5 / 0.5 with the draw being a last round draw vs a strong expert. It is my personal belief that had he started with Expert level events rather than the typical weekend Swiss his result would have been the same but not long afterwards he won a BC Closed qualifier and the closed itself so quickly got his proper rating! ]

  5. #5

    Default

    The FQE rating is pretty much on par with FIDE rating for adult players, and maybe a bit higher than FIDE rating for young players (as they are improving quickly). Last time we made the calculation, the difference was of about 150 rating points between CFC and FQE for 2100+ players (that was last year). I don't know if it changed, but in any case we should not worry about that now. Even taking the ratings as equivalent would be good. The idea is simply to avoid having 1600+ players paired with a rating of 0 (or a very low and old rating). I don't think the players themselves would mind, but their opponents, who would lose a lot of rating points, might prefer a more representative rating for their opponent.

    The issue might come up next year at the 2014 CYCC and Canadian Open. This year, there was close to 30 foreign players at the Quebec Open and we could expect more for the Canadian Open (plus some potential unrated FQE players). So, it would be good for those who already have an established CFC rating to avoid losing too many rating points.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    694

    Default

    TD pairings is not the issue. TDs will usually use whatever rating a person has that makes most sense.

    The article I'm trying to amend simply gives guidance to the CFC office when assigning an initial rating to a non-resident who has another rating.

    Apparently, people with only FQE ratings are started with provisional ratings like other unrated players. This is usually fairly accurate as it reflects their current playing strength.

    If there is a desire to adopt FQE ratings instead of provisional ratings for people with only FQE ratings, I don't have a problem with that. I'm just a bit hesitant to wrap it into Article 436 without a wider discussion.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    I think that position is completely sound and with the CFC - FQE agreement I think an open frank discussion should be welcome.

    Without the kind of regulation you're seeking the Office has no mandate to take not of any other rating for non-residents (or anybody else) and if the Ratings Auditor feels a discussion is called for I'm totally in support of that.

    Haven't decided how I feel about the issues raised by the motion but no question - it's not academic or pedantic in any way and is a discussion we should be having.

    My apologies if I confused anybody on the subject of what TDs are supposed to do in these cases for pairing purposes only - as Paul says, this is about provisional ratings for the most part.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Perhaps the Rating auditor should compare the FQE ratings of Quebec players against CFC performance ratings for events held this summer. If the data base is large enough it should give an estimate of the comparability of the two rating systems. Ideally we should merge the two systems after making any necessary adjustment. I would have no problem with the FQE doing the ratings for both organisations.
    Les Bunning

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Port Moody, BC
    Posts
    594
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Giving FQE ratings "special status" similar with USCF and FIDE is at its roots a delicate subject. We are already fighting for CFC rated events on the West Coast in competition with a North West rating. All of a sudden we can see this one entering the discussion as well, together with other regional ratings from across the country. Why open the Pandora box?...
    Valer Eugen Demian
    FIDE CM & Instructor, ICCF IM
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ches...593013634?mt=8

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •