10B. CYCC Free Entries (Felix Dumont / Edward Porper)

[Michael Barron]

$150 of each entry fee goes to the CFC to finance the team to the WYCC. $75 goes to the organisers to run the event. Of this $75 about $25 is our cost for each competitor who will each receive a Tee shirt and a commemerative medal. There will be medals for the top 3 players in each category and a trophy for the winner in each category. Our break even point is about 200 players. Based on current enrollment we expect to receive about 250 players. This will give us a surplus of approximately $2,500. We may be able to spend this on additional events at the CYCC but if not we will decide what to do with it after the event is over. In 2007 when we had substantial sponsorship $ we gave over $40,000 to the CFC youth program. Unfortunately this year there is very little sponsorship money.
Les Bunning

Thank you, Les, for clarification!

So, we all agree that CYCC will have a surplus this year.
The question is: How you're going to spend it?

I believe, it's not too late to have a seventh round on Saturday morning.
Looking on the pre-registered list, I see some sections with 7 and 8 players.
How they will play?
In a 6-round Swiss?

[Félix Dumont]

$150 of each entry fee goes to the CFC to finance the team to the WYCC. $75 goes to the organisers to run the event. Of this $75 about $25 is our cost for each competitor who will each receive a Tee shirt and a commemerative medal. There will be medals for the top 3 players in each category and a trophy for the winner in each category. Our break even point is about 200 players. Based on current enrollment we expect to receive about 250 players. This will give us a surplus of approximately $2,500. We may be able to spend this on additional events at the CYCC but if not we will decide what to do with it after the event is over. In 2007 when we had substantial sponsorship $ we gave over $40,000 to the CFC youth program. Unfortunately this year there is very little sponsorship money.
Les Bunning

These most be very, very nice medals for $25 per person (!). One can easily find customized t-shirts for about $5 per participant (especially for kids). Customized medals very often cost less, but I guess these are made of precious metal

I won't be convinced until I see the final budget and how it really required $15 000 to run the event (unless it covers many shared expenses of the CO, like the venue and the arbiters). It costs much less to run a tournament like the Quebec Open, which is on 8 days, has more participants, many side events and lots of non-paying participants.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

These most be very, very nice medals for $25 per person (!). One can easily find customized t-shirts for about $5 per participant (especially for kids). Customized medals very often cost less, but I guess these are made of precious metal

I won't be convinced until I see the final budget and how it really required $15 000 to run the event (unless it covers many shared expenses of the CO, like the venue and the arbiters). It costs much less to run a tournament like the Quebec Open, which is on 8 days, has more participants, many side events and lots of non-paying participants.

The expenses are very different in different cities. One reason that they had such a surplus two years ago in Thornhill was because they got some sponsorship and they had a hotel which gave them a free playing venue if the hotel rooms reserved reached a certain critical number. Windsor had certain breaks in the rent on their tournament room rental but the reservations did not come anywhere near reaching the level which would have significantly reduced the cost. The people who make out like bandits at CYCC are not the organizers but rather the hotels. If we could use this fact to our advantage maybe we could put on less expensive CYCC's which don't require such significant investments on the part of the kids and parents.

[Michael Barron]

One reason that they had such a surplus two years ago in Thornhill was because they got some sponsorship and they had a hotel which gave them a free playing venue if the hotel rooms reserved reached a certain critical number.

And one reason that they reached this critical number was because they provided free entry for some players and discounted entry for other players.

[Edward Porper]

The expenses are very different in different cities. One reason that they had such a surplus two years ago in Thornhill was because they got some sponsorship and they had a hotel which gave them a free playing venue if the hotel rooms reserved reached a certain critical number. Windsor had certain breaks in the rent on their tournament room rental but the reservations did not come anywhere near reaching the level which would have significantly reduced the cost. The people who make out like bandits at CYCC are not the organizers but rather the hotels. If we could use this fact to our advantage maybe we could put on less expensive CYCC's which don't require such significant investments on the part of the kids and parents.

I still fail to understand why the organizers couldn't try to lodge the current champions with local families?
A typical win-win situation as everybody profits in that or other way.

[Halldor P. Palsson]

I find this whole discussion totally disconnected from what the CFC is facing. There are no bids for 2014 CYCC [a cannot miss money maker!!] or the 2014 CO [a challenging task] for this meeting to consider.

The movers of this motion did not provide any cost estimate for this proposal. On that basis I ask the Chair, on a point of order, to defer the motion to the next meeting. I do not think the discussion of the proposal helped much to clarify those costs.

Those running CYCCs & COs in recent years have been at break-even or have lost money. We do not need to add mandatory costs to CYCCs because we have a huge lineup of organizers bidding on them.

[Paul Leblanc]

If Ottawa makes a small profit, I believe they have the right to decide what to do with it and I don't even want to know.
After all, they did all the work and assumed all the risk.

[Félix Dumont]

I did provide an estimate cost.

This is not at all the realistic cost.
1) winners of the U18 will most likely be too old, so we are talking about 10 players.
Let's say 8 decide to play, including 2 that live in the area and 4 that would have played anyway.
The cost for the organizer is then of $75x 4 + 400x6=2700 $. Organizers can definitely afford it and it might even attract more players. We need to take such decisions if we want truly national championships and not only money-maker tournaments that are used to finance the Canadian Open.

The CO does often create a deficit, not the CYCC. The CYCC in Toronto had a profit of nearly $20 000, even by having enormous expenses.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Paul:

I think the issue some governors are concerned about is the tying of the CYCC to the CO.

If expenses are to be shared by both tournaments, then the CYCC share should show on its financial records, and be paid over to the CO organizers if they are the ones paying the common bills.

But if the CYCC, after paying common expenses, and its own expenses, generates a profit, what then??

Our bid from the Ottawa group committed CFC to the position that any profit goes to the CYCC organizers, to do with it what they want. In past years, Ottawa organizers have donated it to the CFC "for youth chess". This year, if I have understood the organizers correctly, they anticipate having to use some/all of that profit by giving it to the CO organizers, to help them pay their costs. If the CO turns a profit, then the organizers get it.

What some governors want is that CFC not agree to this in future. The finances of the CYCC shall be kept separate from CO finances (and CYCC will pay its share of common expenses). Then the question is whether the organizers must hand over any CYCC profit (aside from money due CFC for prizes) to the CFC for a "Youth Fund". Is this better than it going to the CO organizers to subsidize the CO?? Or better than it just going to the CYCC organizers? Or are the CYCC organizers entitled to all profit ?- they took the risk.

The governors need to decide a policy on this. Then they have to bite the bullet and decide what to do , when organizers don't follow this policy in their bids.

Bob A

[Félix Dumont]

What some governors want is that CFC not agree to this in future. The finances of the CYCC shall be kept separate from CO finances (and CYCC will pay its share of common expenses). Then the question is whether the organizers must hand over any CYCC profit (aside from money due CFC for prizes) to the CFC for a "Youth Fund". Is this better than it going to the CO organizers to subsidize the CO?? Or better than it just going to the CYCC organizers? Or are the CYCC organizers entitled to all profit ?- they took the risk.

The governors need to decide a policy on this. Then they have to bite the bullet and decide what to do , when organizers don't follow this policy in their bids.

Bob A

This is exactly what I am thinking. However, I was afraid that a policy on the bids would simply not work. The answer I keep getting, when I ask to the bidders, is the same : if we are not allowed to make a profit, what prevents us from paying ourselves a salary of the amount of the profit? Although it shows an incredibly bad faith (and lack of respect for the players), it's true. We'll never be able to really watch all the expenses. If they don't pay themselves a salary, they could also say that sending the flyers cost $3000 (while we all know it should cost a few hundred dollars, maximum), and we would hardly be able to verify.

As an organizer, I know it can be annoying to have more requirements (like free entries). But in absence of a better way to prevent organizers from making money on the back of kids, I find it better than nothing.