Youth Chess Championships

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Hello Mr. Demian,

In defence of David, he must have spent as many hours working on CFC related issues this year (unfortunately not pleasantly in the realm of getting to know all our star players) as with his full time job.

You surprise me with your evaluation that youth chess is in good shape. When I see statistics of involvement across the country, I see reason to be concerned. There are many countries which are so far ahead of us in Youth development - we have lots of room for improvement, one step at a time.
I welcome feedback, but most of all, lets see everyone interested in Youth Chess pulling together.

I am a bit perplexed as well because it sounds as if you find that the Yourh Coordinator of the CFC should not waste time promoting and encouraging Canadian Youth chess. Should I start promoting curling tournaments? No! I want to see a lot more children benefitting from organized chess. I ask for help.

Ellen Nadeau

Hi Ellen,

There is no doubt there are several countries ahead of us in youth development. Do you know why that is? It is because chess is recognized as a sport and supported as such. I have been advocating this for a long time - push for having chess recognized as a sport in Canada - but people in general and Youth Coordinators in particular fail to see this is the only way the current situation could be improved! Given how much "help" and "involvement" exist now, youth development IS in good shape. Asking for more from the same people over and over again is not the way to go!...

We are pulling together here in BC for a long time. It might be the huge geographical distance between us why you don't see it; however we are live on the web if you want to check out what we are doing here for years now. Please do visit our webpages! If you cannot find them, I can help...

I did not say you should not promote youth chess. What I said is it seems pointless to organize another stand alone tournament, without any performace criteria to qualify to and from. Stand alone tournaments are doomed to failure and little support unless there's a lot of money involved in them (meaning sponsors). If you truly want to do something valuable, re-organize the whole tournament system from the grounds up. Will give you an example:

Chess and Math runs in BC the following:
- several regionals to qualify for provincial
- provincial to qualify for nationals: you play here only if you qualify from regionals or get a wild card
Participation is over 200 players!

CFC runs in BC:
- provincial: no qualification required to play here, nor it matters if you participate as you can go directly to CYCC if you wish
Participation is around 70-80 players at best!

As a CFC supporter for 15 years (since coming to Canada), the above hurts!... You must see the difference between the two. This is what I am saying!

Thank you,
Eugen

P.S. We can talk a lot more in particular if you truly are interested in our feedback...

[David Lavin]

Hi Valer:

Can I ask you to suggest how you would structure the YCC events and how best to integrte them into the CYCC?

What do you think about going with Ellen's suggestions this year, see what happens, and modify it next year with everyone's input?

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Hi Valer:

Can I ask you to suggest how you would structure the YCCeevents and how best t ointegrte them into he CYCC?

What do you think about going with Ellen's suggestions this year, see what happens, and modify it next year with everyone's input?

Hi David,

Thanks for your answer!

Regarding the title of your message, I think you should be more positive when receiving input on proposed plans, especially when that input comes from people who are doing the grassroots work and deal with chess parents and kids on a weekly basis for years!...

Going to your questions:
a) I would recognize Chess and Math has captured the school system support across the country (schools actually respond positive to that cycle regionals, etc) and would do something about it: partnership with Chess and Math, others. The problem is right now the CYCC cycle has a much lesser value in the eyes of teachers, so participation in BC is as I mentioned: roughly 33% of the other cycle.

IMO this is more important that coming up with new tournaments such as YCC, or the foundation of a building needs more attention than its Xth floor.

b) Given the desire to go ahead with this tournament regardless, it would be good to have a clear purpose for it. Example: CYCC qualifies for team Canada and WYCC. YCC does what?

c) The CYCC cycle could link YCC to provincial final placings such as (example):
- top X places qualify for CYCC
- following Y places for YCC
There are several other ways you can combine YCC into the cycle based on its purpose (see point "b" above)

d) You can go ahead with this suggestion, but don't expect a great participation, so the obvious question could be: is it better to have this tournament anyway, or should we prepare this first meantime fixing other critical points?

Thanks,
Eugen

[David Lavin]

Hi Eugen-- I think you misunderstand the heading of my last message. "No one is as smart as everyone" implies that we want as much input as possible.

My personal feeling is that time is running out and something is better than nothing. the more we do now, the better the events will be next time around. I do agree completely that there needs to be a clear integration between the YCC and the CYCC.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Chess and Math runs in BC the following:
Participation is over 200 players!

CFC runs in BC:
Participation is around 70-80 players at best!

May you say that these tournaments has similar event format, i.e., one or multi-day event? I have impression that the CnM makes a one-day rapid (15-30 per game) chess event, while the CFC runs a multi-day event with a longer time control. Thus attracting different numbers of participants.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Egis:

I think you are right on this, and the point is a good one. And CMA works on class grade in school, and CFC on rating class, so opponents will be different.

I think it is good that juniors have a variety to choose from - some CMA events, and some CFC events. I don't really see why one should have to exclude the other.

From someone not directly involved in youth chess, admittedly.

Bob

[Ken Craft]

The CFC should consider outsourcing the running of the CYCC cycle to the CMA. Back to the future.

[Valer Eugen Demian]

May you say that these tournaments has similar event format, i.e., one or multi-day event? I have impression that the CnM makes a one-day rapid (15-30 per game) chess event, while the CFC runs a multi-day event with a longer time control. Thus attracting different numbers of participants.

Hi Egis, Bob and Ken,

Yes, the formats are different: one day competition and 30 minutes games for CMA, while CFC runs a 2 days competition with longer time controls. Yet in my experience the problem does not lie here. The school system runs several other sport events in multidays formats.

Yes, CMA runs their events by grade (however if some grades do not have enough participants, they get combined and this makes those combined sections very similar with the CFC format).
CFC runs their groups by age (and not rating level!...) and in the light of the above observation on combined grades, I see a lot of similarities with CMA.

While it looks on the surface the two organizations are running different things, the truth is deep down they do more or less the same thing. The problem lies - as I already said - with the fact CMA has a solid relationship with the school program, while CFC has ignored this aspect at best.

Personally I do not agree CFC should outsource our cycle to CMA. Do not want to get into a flaming discussion saying the CMA cycle attacks and erodes CFC at the roots, but say something must be done to fix this situation. It is not clear why CMA would want to have a mutual beneficial relationship with CFC and somehow enter in an agreement, but as a CFC promoter it is hard to go by yourself into schools (with little to no official backing from CFC) and convince them to participate at our cycle as well.

You cannot ignore an aspect of your activity or fail to adress existing problems - basically CMA and CFC are competing for the same mass of school players, being obvious for the time being which side is clearly ahead -hoping that other measures will have the desired results.

Going back to the original ideas we need to provide adequate help at the grassroots level. Some CFC promoters work with youngsters, others with adults. What all of them need is more help, involvement and good decisions. Private organizations are not the only good answer for chess in this country and it is really frustrating to get this message from back East over and over again!...

Thank you
Eugen

[Ken Craft]

The CFC used to outsource the running of the CYCC to the CMA. My memory was that it was successful. The CFC ceased doing this because they thought they could make more money running it themselves despite the fact that the CMA has expertise in running youth events. It is time to partner with the group with resources and expertise, the CMA.

[Andrei Botez]

It is time to partner with the group with resources and expertise, the CMA.

Here is the same parents comity who are running all year CFC events and the 3 out of 4 CMA yearly events. Just watch this year new BC-YCC format.