7c. Women's CFC Titles (Moved/Seconded Vlad Drkulec / Julia Lacau-Rodean)

[Lyle Craver]

Drkulec - Lacau-Rodean Women's CFC titles

It is proposed that we add two new CFC titles for women and girls. The titles are Woman National Master and Woman National Candidate Master. The requirements for the Woman National Master title would be the same as the current requirements for the current National Candidate Master title which are three performances in tournaments of at least five games at 2100 or higher or attaining a CFC rating of 2100.

The requirements for the Woman Candidate Master title would be the same as the requirements for the current Class A title which require three performances in tournaments of at least five games at 1900 or attaining a CFC rating of 1900.

This is the current usual cutoff range for qualification for the Canadian woman's Olympiad team. The hope is that this would encourage more women and girls to continue to participate in chess for a longer period of time and also to give recognition to the women and girls who have attained this level of performance in Canadian chess.

Currently in Canada we do not have the level of female representation in chess tournaments and CFC membership that are seen in the United States. My observations in Windsor are that the level of chess interest in girls is about the same as that of boys but over time they become discouraged from playing by the observation that there are few other girls playing. It is hoped by making the top Canadian women more visible by offering this recognition that girls will continue playing chess in an effort to attain the additional titles and achieve similar recognition as the top titles.

Initially I thought to offer intermediate titles which would require norms in the 2200 level range for the WNM title and 2000 range for the WNCM title but after consultations with my co-sponsor and with governors have amended the levels to where they are attainable by Canada's top women and girls. Once the WNM title was set it made sense to make the WNCM title levels two hundred points below the higher title to be consistent with all of our other titles. For the most part implementation of this would merely require editing the web page that currently lists the NCM title holders to include the title Woman National Master and the web page that currently lists the class A titled players to include the Woman National Canadidate Master title. Women that wish a printed certificate could ask for one for the usual charge with the Women's National Master title certificate being offered for free as is the usual practice for the National Master title.

[Gordon Ritchie]

Am I correct and understanding that Vlad and Julia are proposing simply inflating the Canadian titles for women/girls by one notch, i.e. a WNCM would become a WNM and a women's Class A would become a WNCM. Has anyone surveyed female players to see if they would support this title inflation?

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Am I correct and understanding that Vlad and Julia are proposing simply inflating the Canadian titles for women/girls by one notch, i.e. a WNCM would become a WNM and a women's Class A would become a WNCM. Has anyone surveyed female players to see if they would support this title inflation?

When I started this at the prompting of an two time women's Olympiad team member my initial idea was to provide an intermediate title which fell in between NCM and NM titles. After discussion with governors, and female players including the women's coordinator it was determined that the bar was set a bit too high under my proposed title, given the precedent of FIDE having women's titles with a 200 point difference with the corresponding regular titles. Every female player or female player's parent that I have discussed this idea with has been in favour. Of course the people who I consulted were for the most part Windsor players where we don't have as much of a gender gap as other parts of Canada.

I would really like to see chess just as popular among girls and women as it is among boys and men in Canada. In Windsor for a few years it seems to me that it starts out that way but over time the girls stop playing and it is not because they aren't as good as the boys. In Detroit and Michigan I see a larger percentage of female players than I see in Ontario (aside from Windsor). In Europe and South America there seem to be more female players on a proportional basis.

There are criticisms that the female players might just obtain the titles and then quit but if that is the case then at least they might play a little longer before they obtain the title and the ten and fourteen year old girls will see them and think that chess is something that girls can do and compete with boys on a somewhat equal footing and maybe they will play a little longer.

John Coleman makes a joke about the Riverside Library Chess Club which is the only adult chess club in Windsor. He says that its a club for grumpy old retired men. Given my discussions with women and girls it seems to me that this measure would offer some encouragement to our stronger women to continue to play. If you want to keep this as the bastion of the grumpy old men then by all means do so but don't be surprised if the young ladies all disappear into the activities and pursuits where they are welcomed.

[Félix Dumont]

I will vote against this motion. I talked with some of the strongest women in Quebec, and they don't want to be treated as inferior to men.

As I said on Chesstalk :
Some literally feel insulted of such titles (to quote one : " Only because we are women, we need to do less efforts to have a title? What is the rational behind this?")
When I organized the Women Championship last year, I discussed of the titles with several people, including the sponsors (Goddesschess). The general opinion is that different titles actually increase the barrier between men and women.

Goddesschess also wrote at several occasions on this (one example : http://goddesschess.blogspot.ca/2012...te-womens.html)

[Christopher Mallon]

Vlad,

Your post hints strongly but doesn't really make a case that even one single girl would stay in chess due to the existence of these titles. And you admit you've mainly talked to only Windsor chess players.

I've argued for years against FIDE's gradual devaluation of their titles. The lower level ones (CM/WCM) aren't even "real" titles, mainly they are money grabs as far as FIDE is concerned. I don't understand why we want to bring this to Canada and I will never consider anyone who's not been above 2200 to be a master. 2200 has been the requisite to be considered a master for a long time, and it has become easier, not harder, to achieve in the modern ratings system.

So I can't support this.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Can movers BOLD the motion - what and where will be added in the Handbook? Right now it sounds only like an intention.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

Vlad,

Your post hints strongly but doesn't really make a case that even one single girl would stay in chess due to the existence of these titles. And you admit you've mainly talked to only Windsor chess players.

My interest in this idea came from an enquiry from Liza Orlova who recently had an excellent tournament result after a long absence from CFC chess. She asked about the title which does not currently exist. I talked to our President Michael Von Keitz who liked the idea and referred me to Iulia, the CFC women's coordinator and those discussions led to something close to the current proposal. Finally I talked to the governors on the governors forum which led to this current version of the motion. I talked to a number of Windsor girls and all were quite positive about the idea once it was clarified that the new titles were not required and they could go with the old titles. You might argue that the Windsor girls are somehow not representative of Canada as a whole but the fact is if you had the same proportional participation from the rest of Canadian youth at the last CYCC as you had from Windsor then you would have had more than 2000 kids playing in the tournament.

I reject the idea that the Windsor girls or kids in general are all that unique. If the CFC governors did the same things that we are doing in Windsor, I have little doubt that we would have similar results all across Canada. The real target of this motion, is an indirect target and that is the eight or ten or twelve or fourteen year old girl that likes to play chess but doesn't have too many role models. I know that this will keep the Windsor girls playing longer and that in turn will encourage more girls to start to play and to start to put effort into and excel at chess because they see the example of the older girls and aspire to enjoy their same success competing against boys and adults. They want the certificates and trophies and ribbons that these girls have shown, by their example, that they too could earn.

I don't have any peer reviewed studies that would support my belief that this will help. I do have many years of chess teaching and coaching experience in one area of the country where chess is enjoying exploding interest among girls (and boys). If they tell me that they view this positively, I suspect that there is a large pool of potential players who are very similar in psychological makeup and motivation across the country who will also view this positively.

When I first got involved with the CFC as a governor there were comments among some influential individuals that I was wasting my time and that the CFC was a bastion of stodgy, time and money wasting governors, where nothing would ever change, and no progress could ever be made. Lets prove them wrong. We need to widen our appeal. This will widen our appeal. Lets do it.

[Paul Leblanc]

I also would tend to defer to the women's coordinator and support her recommendation.

[Hal Bond]

I support this initiative. It's good for women's chess. There is no cost, so it helps the whole community without canibalizing something else.

[Christopher Mallon]

There is no cost,

No monetary cost perhaps. But it does further devalue the title of "Master".