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Thread: 7a. Motions on Membership Renewals (Paul Leblanc / Lyle Craver)

  1. #11
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    Hi Bob. This topic came to my attention again at the Grand Pacific Open. We had 15 players with April 1st as an expiry date and the last round was on April 1st so it was unclear whether they needed to renew to play in the last round. We had to bother the CFC President with this minor issue when it could be resolved by amending Article 323.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    Kevin, can you expand on your opposition to the proposal? Do you agree with backdating members up to 4 months when they renew? Do you not want to have a policy on membership start date for new members? I see you agree with clarification of the membership expiry date. This isn't a motion, it is intended as a discussion leading to a potential motion at the AGM so I am very interested in getting your input on the above questions so I can prepare a motion that will get your support at the AGM.
    I'm only leaning to be opposed to what was called "Motion 3" (in Lyle's original post of this thread) at the moment (Motions 1 & 2 seem fine enough to me, at least at this point). As for my tentative opposition to Motion 3, I simply think it's very logical (or at least would look very logical) for membership expiry to occur at the very beginning of the expiry date (i.e. 12:00 am). Unless office software and/or staff at the office have trouble handling that as the expiry time rather than 12:01 am (or 11:59 pm for that matter), though I don't see why. I also am wondering whether it's office software that decides if expiry has occured, in which case my question about current membership expiry policy being precisely 11:59 pm plus 59 seconds (as opposed to not bothering to keep track of the number of seconds after 11:58 pm and 59 seconds has passed) becomes more relevant, rather than being a bit of an April Fool's joke.
    Last edited by Kevin Pacey; 04-02-2013 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    Hi Bob. This topic came to my attention again at the Grand Pacific Open. We had 15 players with April 1st as an expiry date and the last round was on April 1st so it was unclear whether they needed to renew to play in the last round. We had to bother the CFC President with this minor issue when it could be resolved by amending Article 323.
    This exact question has come up several times before, and I can tell you without reservation that the office would have accepted those memberships as current. If the last round is on April 1st, and your membership expires on April 1st, no need to renew. Of course, we hope you renew, and this would provide an ideal opportunity to renew without any lapse of membership, but it is the players choice. An email enquiry to the office should suffice, no need to bother the President.

    But yes, better to have this stated clearly in the rules and regulations.

  4. #14
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    In my AGM motion I'll also have to consider amplifying this other article, possibly with a cross-reference to my new version of Article 323:
    432. Membership. All players in a rated event must be CFC members for the inclusive dates of play.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

  5. #15

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    We could also makes all membership expire on September 1st. That is a standard procedure in Countries with a strong Club program. September 1st is the beginning of the regular season for League play.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
    I'm only leaning to be opposed to what was called "Motion 3" (in Lyle's original post of this thread) at the moment (Motions 1 & 2 seem fine enough to me, at least at this point). As for my tentative opposition to Motion 3, I simply think it's very logical (or at least would look very logical) for membership expiry to occur at the very beginning of the expiry date (i.e. 12:00 am). Unless office software and/or staff at the office have trouble handling that as the expiry time rather than 12:01 am (or 11:59 pm for that matter), though I don't see why. I also am wondering whether it's office software that decides if expiry has occured, in which case my question about current membership expiry policy being precisely 11:59 pm plus 59 seconds (as opposed to not bothering to keep track of the number of seconds after 11:58 pm and 59 seconds has passed) becomes more relevant, rather than being a bit of an April Fool's joke.
    Kevin, I find it the opposite. If I see something that says "Expires April 1st, 2013" that makes me think that April 1st is the last day it is good, not the first day it is no good.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  7. #17
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    Thumbs up EXPIRATION DATE - means "good thru" to the end of that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Mallon View Post
    Kevin, I find it the opposite. If I see something that says "Expires April 1st, 2013" that makes me think that April 1st is the last day it is good, not the first day it is no good.
    I completely agree with Chris -- an expiry date includes the date of expiration: in other words (in your example) at the end of the day 11:59 pm. April 1st.

    I checked with the Banks and the use of VISA, MasterCard, etc. and by the way and they all use "Valid From Dates" and "Good Thru Dates"

    If the only date is the month and year, then it is good through the END of the month/year designated.

    If it has a start date and the start date is only month and year, then it is in force from the beginning of the month/year in the start date.

    To solve this ambiguity, perhaps we will need to have expiry dates at the END of the month. Membership valid Thru to the end of a month on the last day until midnight!

    Same as retail coupons, store "sales" valid until date and even the expiry date of food is valid to the end of that day.

  8. #18

    Default Is there a Hole in the Proposed System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    If we can avoid being greedy and annoying in the eyes of members and potential members, it can only be seen as a good thing. The suggestions seem sensible to me.
    I support all three motions. They are common sense to me, and will be easily accepted by the public.

    However, if a player, between paying more than a month past expiry, plays in a tournament during the month of payment, but his membership "starts" only on the first of the following month, he is technically playing in the tournament without a CFC membership. Is it possible to state that the membership starts on date of payment, but for computer purposes, his new expiry date will be one year from the start of the next month? CFC will in effect be giving him a part month free. Or does this still leave a computer problem of dealing with the "start" of a membership period?

    Bob A

  9. #19
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    Why don't we just switch to an actual date of expiry rather than a month of expiry? That will solve most of the problems right there.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  10. #20

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    There is another aspect to backdating, it concerns how long a person has been a continuous member. The constitution may set a minimum time of continuous CFC membership before being allowed to stand for Governor and for the Executive. Such restrictions are commons in other organisations. Without backdating, a person could be excluded from Governorship. We should still offer backdating as an option to members who want to be elected.

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