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Thread: 4c) Motion 2013-U Olympic Regulations (Zeromskis/Mallon) - discussion only

  1. #21
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    Default reality check

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    Eric Hansen can't be excluded now but he could have been excluded at the time of the last selection of an Olympiad team.
    Vlad,
    Sorry, but it's simply not true.
    I can't understand why you (and some others) repeat the same false statement again and again...

    The facts are the following:
    At the time of the last selection (March 2012) were selected the following players:
    Bator Sambuev - as Canadian Champion,
    Leonid Gerzhoy, Nikolay Noritsyn, and Eric Hansen - by rating.
    There were no any other available candidates.

    The selection process was open and transparent - everybody could check the old thread:
    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...inal)-National

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    Lets keep the conversation focused on the future and avoid picking at the scabs of past decisions while wounds are still fresh.
    I would agree with you, but to focus on the future we need to understand - what went wrong in the past and why?

    The problem was with the 5th player selection.
    The Selection Committee selected Edward Porper - despite of strong opposition of the only Committee member with Olympiad experience.
    Hopefully, we all agree now that this was a mistake - Olympiad results and publicly available reports show that.
    Nobody get wounded, but the end result was not good.

    What could we do to avoid the same mistake in the future?
    I have a couple suggestions:
    1) The 5th player should be selected by the Team Captain after consultation with already selected 4 players;
    2) The 5th player should be selected from young improving players under 25 years old.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    Vlad,
    Sorry, but it's simply not true.
    I can't understand why you (and some others) repeat the same false statement again and again...

    The facts are the following:
    At the time of the last selection (March 2012) were selected the following players:
    Bator Sambuev - as Canadian Champion,
    Leonid Gerzhoy, Nikolay Noritsyn, and Eric Hansen - by rating.
    There were no any other available candidates.

    The selection process was open and transparent - everybody could check the old thread:
    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...inal)-National



    I would agree with you, but to focus on the future we need to understand - what went wrong in the past and why?

    The problem was with the 5th player selection.
    The Selection Committee selected Edward Porper - despite of strong opposition of the only Committee member with Olympiad experience.
    Hopefully, we all agree now that this was a mistake - Olympiad results and publicly available reports show that.
    Nobody get wounded, but the end result was not good.

    What could we do to avoid the same mistake in the future?
    I have a couple suggestions:
    1) The 5th player should be selected by the Team Captain after consultation with already selected 4 players;
    2) The 5th player should be selected from young improving players under 25 years old.
    Sorry to interfere, Michael, but since my name was mentioned...
    Hopefully, many of us agree that a mistake was to choose an incompetent individual for a Captain because a Captain who doesn't touch a chess board for the whole duration of the Olympiad (apart from indulging in endless blitz games) is nothing but a joke. It would be half a problem if he were a harmless joke but this individual was peculiar enough to tell his player "You are a mediocre IM and too old to improve"! I don't know if you can imagine a sane person behaving like that - I just hope that an absolute majority of those present at this Forum can't. In your other post you suggested that the Captain should be everybody's buddy - great. I fully agree with that but...either that or nobody's! Because there is nothing worse than favouritism when a team is concerned.
    As for the Olympiad results proving anything, I suggest that you imagine yourself depending on a boss who tramples on you in every possible way. I would like to see you performing under those conditions before judging anybody else.
    As for the only Selector with an Olympiad experience, I already mentioned IM Teplitsky's motives and reasons. Hopefully, everybody who is not blinded by bias will come to his own conclusions.
    Finally, I would advise you to think twice before making suggestions such as "The 5th player should be selected from young improving players under 25 years old". To the best of my knowledge, discrimination by age has not yet been recognized as a legal practice in Canada - and that's a public Forum...

  3. #23
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    Nikolay, Eric, and Edward were all chosen by the selection committee as two players selected by rating (Spraggett and Bluvshtein) declined their spots. At present the selection committe picks the 5th players and two reserves.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    Vlad,
    Sorry, but it's simply not true.
    I can't understand why you (and some others) repeat the same false statement again and again...

    The facts are the following:
    At the time of the last selection (March 2012) were selected the following players:
    Bator Sambuev - as Canadian Champion,
    Leonid Gerzhoy, Nikolay Noritsyn, and Eric Hansen - by rating.
    There were no any other available candidates.

    The selection process was open and transparent - everybody could check the old thread:
    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...inal)-National



    I would agree with you, but to focus on the future we need to understand - what went wrong in the past and why?

    The problem was with the 5th player selection.
    The Selection Committee selected Edward Porper - despite of strong opposition of the only Committee member with Olympiad experience.
    Hopefully, we all agree now that this was a mistake - Olympiad results and publicly available reports show that.
    Nobody get wounded, but the end result was not good.

    What could we do to avoid the same mistake in the future?
    I have a couple suggestions:
    1) The 5th player should be selected by the Team Captain after consultation with already selected 4 players;
    2) The 5th player should be selected from young improving players under 25 years old.
    If the qualification is based on CFC rating :
    1 Sambuev, Bator Montreal, QC 2673
    2 Kovalyov, Anton Verdun, QC 2638
    3 Hansen, Eric Calgary, AB 2588
    4 Noritsyn, Nikolay Richmond Hill, ON 2586
    5 Gerzhoy, Leonid Toronto, ON 2571
    6 Hambleton, Aman Ottawa, ON 2571

    Eric Hansen has only 17 rating points of advance (it was even less not so long ago). It would not be surprising to see Aman or Leonid play in some tournaments in order to gain these points and take his spot... They are very strong players, but definitely not of his strength. This is why we can't rely on CFC rating for the Olympiads.

  5. #25
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    Vlad,
    Sorry, but it's simply not true.
    I can't understand why you (and some others) repeat the same false statement again and again...
    I am repeating the statement because I know it to be true as Fred has confirmed. Mark Bluvstein and Kevin Spraggett were the players that qualified by rating ahead of Eric Hansen, Nikolay Noritsyn and Edward Porper.

    The facts are the following:
    At the time of the last selection (March 2012) were selected the following players:
    Bator Sambuev - as Canadian Champion,
    Leonid Gerzhoy, Nikolay Noritsyn, and Eric Hansen - by rating.
    There were no any other available candidates.
    You have accused me of making false statements. I will accuse you of having poor reading comprehension since the proof that you gave shows that you are wrong.
    The selection process was open and transparent - everybody could check the old thread:
    http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...inal)-National
    If you had read and understood the thread which you yourself had quoted you would have noted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Bluvshtein View Post

    Thus far the following players make the team:

    Sambuev Bator - Canadian Champion,
    Bluvshtein Mark - by rating,
    Spraggett Kevin - by rating,
    Gerzhoy Leonid - by rating.
    I do not see either Eric Hansen nor Nikolay Noritsyn as players identified as being the ones who were selected by rating. Before citing some proof it would be helpful if you could read it first so as to avoid subsequent embarrassment.

    I would agree with you, but to focus on the future we need to understand - what went wrong in the past and why?

    The problem was with the 5th player selection.
    The Selection Committee selected Edward Porper - despite of strong opposition of the only Committee member with Olympiad experience.
    Hopefully, we all agree now that this was a mistake -
    I can't say that we all agree, since I don't agree and we can leave it at that.

  6. #26

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    It should be 20 games but I am not sure that everybody in Canada, including Nunavut and Yukon, has access to 20 games of quality. Also, the number of games is irrelevant. An unscrupulous player could pay a friend to play a 20 games match et voila! If you are an Olympic Stretch player, your 10 games should be played against worthy opponents. This is the negative side of a selection by rating only : the player with the highest rating may be tempted to play abroad to protect his rating. When you do not play, your rating remains fixed.

  7. #27
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    Question selected or excluded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    I am repeating the statement because I know it to be true as Fred has confirmed. Mark Bluvstein and Kevin Spraggett were the players that qualified by rating ahead of Eric Hansen, Nikolay Noritsyn and Edward Porper.

    You have accused me of making false statements. I will accuse you of having poor reading comprehension since the proof that you gave shows that you are wrong.
    Vlad,
    Thank you for improving my reading comprehension!

    Could you please clarify:
    Who was trying to exclude Eric Hansen from the Olympiad team? Mark Bluvstein and Kevin Spraggett?
    Or do you believe that Eric Hansen should have been selected ahead of Mark Bluvstein and Kevin Spraggett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    I don't think the Selection Committee is a good idea when through an arbitrary criteria by a member of the committee someone like Eric Hansen could have been excluded from the Olympiad team if he had not had someone from his province on the selection committee strongly advocating for him.
    Vlad, do you realize:
    If we have 10 players like Eric Hansen, half of them inevitably will be "excluded"?
    And it doesn't matter if they all had someone from their province on the selection committee strongly advocating for them...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    I can't say that we all agree, since I don't agree and we can leave it at that.
    Well, we could agree to disagree...

    Just a few questions to make your position clear:
    Do you believe that the selection process was perfect and we selected the best possible team that achieved the best possible result at the Olympiad?
    If so, why do you want to change the rules? Why do we have all these Motions?
    And do you support all those defamatory comments by the selected 5th player with less than stellar Olympiad performance which he published in the newsletter and on this board?
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  8. #28
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    Thumbs up support chess in Canada!

    Quote Originally Posted by Félix Dumont View Post
    If the qualification is based on CFC rating :
    1 Sambuev, Bator Montreal, QC 2673
    2 Kovalyov, Anton Verdun, QC 2638
    3 Hansen, Eric Calgary, AB 2588
    4 Noritsyn, Nikolay Richmond Hill, ON 2586
    5 Gerzhoy, Leonid Toronto, ON 2571
    6 Hambleton, Aman Ottawa, ON 2571

    Eric Hansen has only 17 rating points of advance (it was even less not so long ago). It would not be surprising to see Aman or Leonid play in some tournaments in order to gain these points and take his spot... They are very strong players, but definitely not of his strength. This is why we can't rely on CFC rating for the Olympiads.
    First, Anton Kovalyov can't play for Canada - because he registered with FIDE under different Federation.

    Second, for Eric not to be selected by rating all 3 of his rivals - Nikolay, Leonid and Aman - should play in some tournaments in order to gain extra points and take Eric's spot. And it's not easy at this level...

    And the most important:
    Isn't it what we need to develop chess in Canada - to encourage our best players to play in some tournaments?
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    First, Anton Kovalyov can't play for Canada - because he registered with FIDE under different Federation.
    What is his transfer status? I thought that he would be eligible for 2014 Olympiad. Antoehr strange thing that he is not rated at this moment :/
    http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=114987 (Didn't ARG pay FIDE dues? )
    .*-1

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
    What is his transfer status? I thought that he would be eligible for 2014 Olympiad. Antoehr strange thing that he is not rated at this moment :/
    http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=114987 (Didn't ARG pay FIDE dues? )
    Anton will be eligible for the 2014 Olympic team. I beleive there may be some problem with Argentina dues at the moment (he is still listed with them until the two year period is up).

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