7. 2013-H Membership requirements for FIDE-rated events (Bond/McKim) -commentary only

[Pierre Dénommée]

Then we should enforce it.

If a non-member plays in a Foreign country, does FIDE notifies us? I know at least one case of a Quebec player that did play his first FIDE rated tournament in the US. On the rating list, he has been entered as a US player. If a foreign organizer does not do his job and enters all players as resident of his country, how can we discover that?

Technically this is actually a FIDE rule, that someone must be a member in good standing of their national federation.

[Christopher Mallon]

Then we should enforce it.

If a non-member plays in a Foreign country, does FIDE notifies us? I know at least one case of a Quebec player that did play his first FIDE rated tournament in the US. On the rating list, he has been entered as a US player. If a foreign organizer does not do his job an enters all players as resident of his country, how can we discover that?

I don't really know the answers here. It was a much easier rule to enforce when FIDE-rated meant over 2200 and the numbers were relatively small. How are we as organizers here supposed to be able to know if every foreign player who shows up is actually a member in good standing of their federation?

Hal? Thoughts?

[Vladimir Drkulec]

I think that this is a reasonable rule for FIDE tournaments in Canada. I don't think that it is a reasonable rule for foreign FIDE tournaments. If someone moves to England or Budapest and wants to continue to play chess then you are demanding that he or she pays a CFC membership in order to continue to play chess. That doesn't seem fair to me. I doubt that this rule is enforceable. If it is not enforceable it should not be created.

It also creates the obvious question of the Canadian immigrants who play in our FIDE tournaments. We don't check for current membership in other Federations. Anton Kovalyov is currently somewhat unwillingly a member of the Argentine federation. Shall he be required to maintain his Argentine membership to play in one of our FIDE tournaments?

I have voted against this proposal.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

I think that this is a reasonable rule for FIDE tournaments in Canada. I don't think that it is a reasonable rule for foreign FIDE tournaments. If someone moves to England or Budapest and wants to continue to play chess then you are demanding that he or she pays a CFC membership in order to continue to play chess. That doesn't seem fair to me. I doubt that this rule is enforceable. If it is not enforceable it should not be created.

It also creates the obvious question of the Canadian immigrants who play in our FIDE tournaments. We don't check for current membership in other Federations. Anton Kovalyov is currently somewhat unwillingly a member of the Argentine federation. Shall he be required to maintain his Argentine membership to play in one of our FIDE tournaments?

I have voted against this proposal.

imho, the motion deals with CANADIAN tournaments which go through the CFC office to FIDE. Thus most of your comments are out of a scope of this motion.

[Vladimir Drkulec]

imho, the motion deals with CANADIAN tournaments which go through the CFC office to FIDE. Thus most of your comments are out of a scope of this motion.

The wording of the motion should be more precise then. The discussion surrounding the motion clearly indicated that my interpretation that it applied to all FIDE play was shared by at least two other governors.

If it was clear that the motion applied to only Canadian submitted FIDE events, I would have voted for it.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

The wording of the motion should be more precise then. The discussion surrounding the motion clearly indicated that my interpretation that it applied to all FIDE play was shared by at least two other governors.

You and other should read the whole 790.

As for the whole world, as Chris mentioned, FIDE gave power to go after emigrated players http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.ht...1&view=article

13.0. Inclusion in the Rating list.
13.1 To be included in the FRL or FIDE Rapidplay Rating list, a player must be a member of a national chess Federation which is a member of FIDE. That is, the Federation must not be temporarily or permanently excluded from membership.
13.2 It is the responsibility of national Federations to inform FIDE if players should not be included in the FRL, FRRL.
13.3 Any player excluded from either rating list because he is unable to obtain membership of a national Federation, may apply to FIDE for special dispensation to be included.

On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.

[John Coleman]

On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.

From my point of view, it's more the other way round. Before I became a Canadian, I played chess (though not FIDE-rated) as a member of the CFC. I have never been a member of the English chess federation, and if I played in a FIDE-rated tournament after moving to Canada, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get an ECF membership.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

From my point of view, it's more the other way round. Before I became a Canadian, I played chess (though not FIDE-rated) as a member of the CFC. I have never been a member of the English chess federation, and if I played in a FIDE-rated tournament after moving to Canada, it wouldn't have occurred to me to get an ECF membership.

I don't think that 13.2 was used ever

[Vladimir Drkulec]

You and other should read the whole 790.

It would be helpful in future motions like this one if there was a link to the section or at least the document that was being amended.

As for the whole world, as Chris mentioned, FIDE gave power to go after emigrated players http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.ht...1&view=article


On other hand, how many players do you (plural) know who are abroad, plays chess, are rated by FIDE, and not members of the CFC.

One that I can think of. You don't have to be abroad. There are FIDE rated tournaments in Detroit these days which is much closer than Kitchener or Guelph where the next closest FIDE action could be found. If a player is not a CFC member, I can assure you they are not checking for a current CFC membership, only USCF. Once a player plays in a tournament are we going to go to the bother of going to FIDE and have his result annulled? I don't think so. If we did, one lawsuit in a a foreign venue would certainly more than negate any incremental revenue you would earn from such a practice.

One should also look at basic fairness. We are not providing any services to these players who play in foreign FIDE events and so we should not be asking to earn any revenue.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Once a player plays in a tournament are we going to go to the bother of going to FIDE and have his result annulled? I don't think so. If we did, one lawsuit in a a foreign venue would certainly more than negate any incremental revenue you would earn from such a practice.

One should also look at basic fairness. We are not providing any services to these players who play in foreign FIDE events and so we should not be asking to earn any revenue.

The FIDE rules say about expelling from the rating LIST, not annulling tournament results.

imho, it is a privilege to be CAN (or other country) on the list. Playing abroad may give some advantage: for norms, an "international" status. On other hand the national federation fee to FIDE depends on the players number in the rating list (is it limited to an active only?). Nevertheless there not many non-CFC Fide (active) players anyway that to bother too much.