5- Proposed 2012-2013 budget

[Christopher Mallon]

I think we risk spreading ourselves too thinly here. $125 is not really a whole lot, especially for events that aren't normally run (see Team Championship) - it's not enough to encourage the event to be run, IMHO.

Then you have an event like the OHSCC, which is not even run or overseen by the OCA. I don't mind the traditional donation to this event, but I would be against increasing it from $250 at the expense of any of the other events - at least not until we can find a way to grow our budget!

[Rob Clark]

I agree with Chris here, I am hesitant to run a deficit unnecessarily. The OHSCC is a great event and after talking to Chris I believe the money goes a long way. The senior's and women's should be supported, but I'm not sure how (this year) we can. Since they are run every two years I believe (and it was supposed to be this upcoming fiscal year), it may make sense to alternate the Closed and then the Senior's and Women's. This may also appeal to some since I knew there was some disenchantment over the fact that we were (in a way) supporting an event in B.C. this year. Therefore we could support the Closed this year with the intention of supporting a senior's and women's next year.

Therefore just to lay it out, my proposed spending is as follows:

$1000 surplus from 2011
-$500 to Bob Gillanders for filing taxes
-$250 support to Olympiad players/ supporting people such as coaches etc

Approximate $2000 for next year
–$500 Ontario Open
–$500 OYCC
–$250 OHSCC
–$250 Ontario Team Championships
–$500 Ontario Closed

Total $2000

[Rob Clark]

Also, I think things are fairly clear with the combination of Brett's documents and myself having done the first two pages of the format from the 2009 Treasurer's report. If people still don't understand anything please post your questions and/or comments.

[Brett Campbell]

Some comments, questions and suggestions:

It's unfortunate that funding for the coming Ontario Closed was omitted or overlooked in this version of a budget, which was, however, defeated at the recent 2012 online OCA AGM.

Regarding the still relevant suggested expenditures in that defeated budget, I regard $500 for an Ontario Open, plus $500 for an Ontario Closed and $500 for an OYCC as all but obligatory expenditures.

However, I am loath to see any of the OHSCC, Ontario Team Championships, Ontario Women's Championship or Senior's Championship have little or no funding from the OCA, but I personally feel all of these are lesser flagship events for the province than the Ontario Open, Ontario Closed or OYCC. It's my guess that most OCA Governors would feel similarly, at least regarding the other four being the lesser flagship events. Indeed, some, if not many, may feel that the Ontario Team Championship, without being organized in a recent year, is the least of the lesser flagship events.

My first question would be, in the opinion of the OCA Executive, could we actually afford to spend more than $2000 in total on all or any combination of the seven events mentioned above? If so, how much more?

Perhaps we may discover that we can barely afford to fund all seven of these events as much as we would like to after all. Only another $500 is necessary for that. Or maybe we could seriously consider running a deficit, for at least this year.

Alternatively, we might fund each or any of what I have called the lesser flagship events with a smaller amount than what we would prefer.

If we are indeed to spend only $2000 on all seven events, I would suggest either:
1) we take a vote at the present meeting on which two 'lesser flagship events' (of the four I listed) to give each $250 in funding to, giving no funding to each of the other two lesser flagship events, or else:
2) we could give $125 to each of the four lesser flagship events I listed.

There may be a more precise method of determining how to distribute funding to these four lesser events, but my suggested options 1) and 2) might at least be perceived as being fair to many Governors, players, organizers, or observers concerned with these four lesser flagship events who are also following this meeting's proceedings.

Hi Kevin

First, thanks for your kind comments about the income statements and balance sheets.

Originally, I had thought we would give $250 each to the Seniors and Womens events, based on hazy recollections of the 2011 meeting, but this was corrected when Rob pointed out that we had agreed on funding $125 each, and it was so changed as an Account Payable on the 2012 statements. So we are down to only requiring $2250 if we fund all the events we would like, which is possible. However there are still a couple of things to consider.

We have just over $1000 until we receive approximately $2300 (could be lower based on CFC members) from CFC in November, for the first 6 months. We have to pay out $2250 if we agree on this budget for the seven events, plus we have to pay out $500 to Bob G for doing the taxes and $250 to support Olympic team, leaving us with only a couple hundred dollars until the next Annual meeting.

Depending on when we have to pay $500 for the 2012 Ontario Closed, and Bob G $500 is an issue. If this $1000 is paid out before November, then we will have $76 in the account until November, so we can't even support the Olympic team until the next CFC rebate.

Something to think about!

[Brett Campbell]

Some comments, questions and suggestions:

It's unfortunate that funding for the coming Ontario Closed was omitted or overlooked in this version of a budget, which was, however, defeated at the recent 2012 online OCA AGM.

Regarding the still relevant suggested expenditures in that defeated budget, I regard $500 for an Ontario Open, plus $500 for an Ontario Closed and $500 for an OYCC as all but obligatory expenditures.

However, I am loath to see any of the OHSCC, Ontario Team Championships, Ontario Women's Championship or Senior's Championship have little or no funding from the OCA, but I personally feel all of these are lesser flagship events for the province than the Ontario Open, Ontario Closed or OYCC. It's my guess that most OCA Governors would feel similarly, at least regarding the other four being the lesser flagship events. Indeed, some, if not many, may feel that the Ontario Team Championship, without being organized in a recent year, is the least of the lesser flagship events.

My first question would be, in the opinion of the OCA Executive, could we actually afford to spend more than $2000 in total on all or any combination of the seven events mentioned above? If so, how much more?

Perhaps we may discover that we can barely afford to fund all seven of these events as much as we would like to after all. Only another $500 is necessary for that. Or maybe we could seriously consider running a deficit, for at least this year.

Alternatively, we might fund each or any of what I have called the lesser flagship events with a smaller amount than what we would prefer.

If we are indeed to spend only $2000 on all seven events, I would suggest either:
1) we take a vote at the present meeting on which two 'lesser flagship events' (of the four I listed) to give each $250 in funding to, giving no funding to each of the other two lesser flagship events, or else:
2) we could give $125 to each of the four lesser flagship events I listed.

There may be a more precise method of determining how to distribute funding to these four lesser events, but my suggested options 1) and 2) might at least be perceived as being fair to many Governors, players, organizers, or observers concerned with these four lesser flagship events who are also following this meeting's proceedings.

Kevin, thanks for your kind words about the income statements and balance sheets, and I hope everyone else can understand them.

If we want to spend $2250 on seven events ($125 for Seniors and Womens), it may be possible. It assumes we will get $2300 approx from CFC in November and again next May. We have $1000 approx. in the account until November, but 2012 statement has already calculated payouts for 2012 Women's and Seniors events, so I guess we want to do the same for 2013. I guess we have to pay out now for 2012 Ontario Closed, and give Bob $500 for taxes. So we have $76 left after doing this until November.

[Kevin Pacey]

Also, I think things are fairly clear with the combination of Brett's documents and myself having done the first two pages of the format from the 2009 Treasurer's report. If people still don't understand anything please post your questions and/or comments.

Rob, is it possible for you to combine some aspects of Brett's documents and your proposed spending (including the Ontario Closed, and excluding the Senior's and Women's Championships) into a single post or document that would be our latest proposed (and then also more formal) budget, which we could then vote on?

From another post of yours:

Therefore just to lay it out, my proposed spending is as follows:

$1000 surplus from 2011
-$500 to Bob Gillanders for filing taxes
-$250 support to Olympiad players/ supporting people such as coaches etc

Approximate $2000 for next year
–$500 Ontario Open
–$500 OYCC
–$250 OHSCC
–$250 Ontario Team Championships
–$500 Ontario Closed

Total $2000


I don't have any great objection to this proposed spending, now that I've read Brett's and your latest comments. However someone might wish to propose an amendment to this proposed spending, such as voting for a different combination of what I've called lesser flagship events to be funded and others not to be. Please let us know if you believe a motion with a seconder would be required for such, as I'm not aware if this need for motions applies to this meeting.

[Kevin Pacey]

Rob, is it possible for you to combine some aspects of Brett's documents and your proposed spending (including the Ontario Closed, and excluding the Senior's and Women's Championships) into a single post or document that would be our latest proposed (and then also more formal) budget, which we could then vote on?

Oops, unless I'm mistaken, your post #5 on page 1 of this thread (with links to a proposed budget) pretty much fits in what I was thinking of. Unless there's something that should be altered, after Brett's documents became available the other day.

[Marcus Wilker]

One small question from the balance sheet: Why are the league rebates from 2011 listed only as estimates?

[Rob Clark]

I don't want to put words in Brett's mouth but its possible it was based on previous membership statistics. No doubt these statements took a great deal of time to put together. The values given in my first page of the format Chris wanted is the correct breakdown after the AGM.

[Marcus Wilker]

What I would really like to see would be, on a single page, the last two or three years' actual income and expenditures, with bank balances from the bottom of each year's column carried through to the top of the next year's. The upcoming year's estimated income and proposed spending could then be compared directly to analogous moneys from previous years.

I appreciate what Brett says in his report about unpaid volunteer work, and I'm not expecting him to do it. But I really liked, e.g., what Egis started putting together at the AGM.

Once done, such a document would be easy to add to next year.