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Thread: 10B) Discussion: Foreign Ratings - Paul Leblanc

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    Default 10B) Discussion: Foreign Ratings - Paul Leblanc

    Discussion here.

    736. Foreign Events and Ratings. If a foreign player has a rating in his own country or from FIDE, that will be used to determine his first CFC rating. If he is inactive in Canada for a year but has a change in his foreign rating, his changed foreign rating will be used to recalculated his CFC rating.

    New residents of Canada without a CFC rating are considered unrated, whether or not they have a foreign rating.

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    I intend to submit an amendment to this article at the next meeting but first I hope to hear from other governors, hopefully including those that originally crafted this article.

    I was approached by Gerry Lichfield from the CFC office with an observation that this regulation, the way it is written is unenforceable.
    In the first sentence, the requirement to use a foreign player's national or FIDE rating does not give a hierarchy (whichever is higher?).
    In the second sentence, the phrase "changed foreign rating will be used to recalculate his CFC rating" implies that there is a country by country conversion formula. Does this exist? If the player/TD forgets or doesn't know about the change in foreign rating, the CFC office does not have the resources to track this down.

    The third sentence is difficult due to the phrase "new resident".

    Here are Gerry's comments:
    Last I checked the handbook says if an outside player shows up, CFC subs his national rating, but if they reside in Canada for a time then CFC is not supposed to sub the rating.

    This means the organizers must submit a report as such on status of outside players, otherwise it is simply my best guess.

    Trouble is no organizers ever submit any such information thus that whole section of the handbook is out of order/useless unless organizers start reporting on status of foreign players.

    Also everyone emails me asking as if I have made some kind of concrete decisions, in truth I simply guess in order to hopefully keep the system going.

    Like I said, anything anywhere in the handbook that cannot be performed is out of order.



    Another problem is handbook says we sub their FIDE or USCF rating, but it does not specify which in cases where they have both.

    In 2010 I had many cases in 2010 North American Youth Chess Championships in Montreal were outside players had both.

    So I used FIDE first, then USCF, trouble is parents wanted me to use FIDE or USCF depending on the situation that benefitted their child most. (Canadian child who played foreign players)

    Again no clear direction, a lose lose situation. Handbook is out of order. All those motions made that cannot be simply completed are out of order.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    I intend to submit an amendment to this article at the next meeting but first I hope to hear from other governors, hopefully including those that originally crafted this article.

    I was approached by Gerry Lichfield from the CFC office with an observation that this regulation, the way it is written is unenforceable.
    In the first sentence, the requirement to use a foreign player's national or FIDE rating does not give a hierarchy (whichever is higher?).
    In the second sentence, the phrase "changed foreign rating will be used to recalculate his CFC rating" implies that there is a country by country conversion formula. Does this exist? If the player/TD forgets or doesn't know about the change in foreign rating, the CFC office does not have the resources to track this down.

    The third sentence is difficult due to the phrase "new resident".

    Here are Gerry's comments:
    Last I checked the handbook says if an outside player shows up, CFC subs his national rating, but if they reside in Canada for a time then CFC is not supposed to sub the rating.

    This means the organizers must submit a report as such on status of outside players, otherwise it is simply my best guess.

    Trouble is no organizers ever submit any such information thus that whole section of the handbook is out of order/useless unless organizers start reporting on status of foreign players.

    Also everyone emails me asking as if I have made some kind of concrete decisions, in truth I simply guess in order to hopefully keep the system going.

    Like I said, anything anywhere in the handbook that cannot be performed is out of order.



    Another problem is handbook says we sub their FIDE or USCF rating, but it does not specify which in cases where they have both.

    In 2010 I had many cases in 2010 North American Youth Chess Championships in Montreal were outside players had both.

    So I used FIDE first, then USCF, trouble is parents wanted me to use FIDE or USCF depending on the situation that benefitted their child most. (Canadian child who played foreign players)

    Again no clear direction, a lose lose situation. Handbook is out of order. All those motions made that cannot be simply completed are out of order.
    Paul,

    I would suggest to keep this article simple and less troublesome for all involved:

    If a foreign player or newcomer to Canada has a FIDE rating, that will be used to determine his first CFC rating.
    If he doesn't have a FIDE rating, but has a national rating, he could report it to the TD, and TD should decide how to convert it to CFC rating.
    Otherwise such player without FIDE rating considered unrated.
    If he is inactive in Canada for a year but has a change in his FIDE rating, his changed FIDE rating will be used to recalculate his CFC rating.

    A little history:
    This clause was suggested as result of Montreal International 2008:
    http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...001&key=120702
    where GM Hikaru Nakamura played with CFC rating 2224 - which he got in 1999 at the age of 11...
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

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    Thanks Michael. I see the Nakamura problem.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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    Perhaps we can separate the two issues involved:
    a. the CFC has to decide what rating to give a foreign player
    b. the TD has to decide what rating to use for pairings and prizes when players have multiple ratings.

    Probably b. is best left up to the TD
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    A little history:
    This clause was suggested as result of Montreal International 2008:
    http://chess.ca/crosstable?tournamen...001&key=120702
    where GM Hikaru Nakamura played with CFC rating 2224 - which he got in 1999 at the age of 11...
    This was IIRC a problem with the application of CFC rules, not the rules themselves. I believe there was something in there about how if a foreigner had not played in Canada for over a year their FIDE rating (could/should?) be used instead.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

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    IMHO, only FIDE (international) and USCF (neighbor) ratings should be considered on a 1:1 base.

    For other ratings (British, German, what are other countries who have own ratings?):
    * money-prized events (places) and rating calculations - unrated
    * for pairing purposes - a TD makes a decision transposing the player's level or class to an appropriate rating.

    After one year of the CFC inactivity: readjust FIDE and USCF, all others unrated again.
    .*-1

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    Foreign rating must be disclosed according to the current CFC Code of Ethics. For fairness, in a Swiss tournament, the rating used for a player must accurately represent his true playing strength. There are formulas to convert Ingo and BCF to Elo.

    The Code of Ethics is there http://chess.ca/sites/default/files/06-07gl3.pdf

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    Pierre, are you pointing out the sentence that says that players with foreign ratings must disclose them to the TD?
    Is there anything else in the GL you linked to that I should read?
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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    I am tending to use Michael Barron's suggestion in my motion at the next meeting except:
    - remove reference to TD responsibilities
    - perhaps change FIDE to FIDE/USCF in order of priority
    The title of the article should be Foreign Player CFC Ratings
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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