CYCC - Playing Up

[Bob Armstrong]

Just posted on the confidential Governors' Discussion Board:

I advised a while ago I intended to bring a motion to allow " under-age " juniors to play up to a higher section ( no limit ) in the CYCC this year.

I started discussion on it. There were some strong opposition feelings among the governors, and it was a hot issue for CYCC parents and I received private e-mails, and discussed the issue face to face with another parent. There were numbers of different playing up criteria presented to me, and there was the issue of some small girls sections.

I approached a possible seconder for the motion and outlined my idea, and was told it would be considered, but he wanted to hear some other ideas that were floating around. We never did get back together because we both got too busy. I was too busy to pursue it at the time.

I have only recently surfaced, but now I fear there is not enough time for public discussion ( governors and members ) of the exact wording of my motion, before the Spring Meeting ( starts in 5 days ). I don't want to rush it, and then have everyone trying to amend it in the meeting. So I am going to deal with it after the Spring meeting now, and bring it to the AGM. This however will leave the status quo in place for the 2012 Vancouver CYCC.

I am not even sure myself what the current rule is: Is it that all juniors must play in their age bracket, but the executive can make an exception on application of the junior?

Finally, if someone else thinks something needs to be done at the Spring Meeting, feel free to go ahead and bring whatever motion. I'd be pleased to provide input if wanted.

Bob A , GTCL CFC Governor

[Andrei Botez]

Hi Bob,

CYCC is a qualifier for WYCC.

Just my opinion is to follow WYCC/FIDE rules. It is allowed to play up if you are last year Champion. Based on that rule, just FM Jason Cao was allowed to apply for that in 2011.

Of course the girls are allow to play in the "Open"/"Boys" section based on the FIDE rules.

Andrei Botez
2012 CYCC Organizing committee.

[Bob Armstrong]

Just my opinion is to follow WYCC/FIDE rules. It is allowed to play up if you are last year Champion. Andrei Botez
2012 CYCC Organizing committee.

Hi Andei:

I did not know that the FIDE playing up rule was so restrictive. I thought it was wide open - anyone could play up.

I thought I read that Magnus Carslen played up. But was he the prior year's Champion?

Bob A

[Kerry Liles]

Hi Andei:

I did not know that the FIDE playing up rule was so restrictive. I thought it was wide open - anyone could play up.

I thought I read that Magnus Carslen played up. But was he the prior year's Champion?

Bob A

If you look at http://www.fide.com/component/handbo...0&view=article
(and similar sections for Boys 16 and 18, there is provision for the 1,2,3 place finishers and the winner (only) of a Continental qualifier to 'play up'
( at least that is what it looks like to me... )

So, extrapolating FIDE rules downward to CFC, it might get a little compilcated (does last year's winner get the possiblity or should it be extended to 1,2,3 finishers at regional qualifiers?)

[Bob Armstrong]

I think after an initial reading of the FIDE rules on the WYCC, the issue of playing up is unclear:

D.VI.04. World Youth (Girls) -8,10,12,14 Championships

3. (GA `93) The players placed 1-3 in a previous World Youth Championship, and the champions of Continental Boys (Girls)-8, 10, 12 and 14 championships, shall have the personal right to participate in the World Youth Championship of the corresponding age-category or a higher age-category if the stipulation of Art. 2 is met. This privilege may be exercised once exclusively in the subsequent year following the year of qualification.

This grants prior year's placers 1 to 3 the right to play up in a " higher age-category " ( no limit on the number of sections, but must be used in the subsequent year ). I do not read this as also a prohibition on national champions.

When it comes to federation representatives 1-3 all it says is:

4. In addition to the players mentioned in Art. 3, each FIDE member-federation shall have the right to send one representative to each Championship. The organizing federation shall have a second place in each Championship, and shall hold a substitute player in each tournament to complete the required number of participants.

I see no reason that what is in Para. 3 affects what is in Para. 4.

By this I mean that if the # 1 rep of Canada in the U 14 Open age category is 8 year old Mary ( because Canada allowed playing up in its CYCC ), I can see no reason that FIDE would not let this 8 year old Canadian U 14 winner play in the WYCC U 14 Open age section.

Is there something somewhere else in the FIDE Handbook that prohibits Canada from setting its own rules on its own national Youth championships?? If we have an 8-year old Mary, who is better than all other Canadian boy and girl juniors U 14, why should Canada not be allowed to want her to represent us in the open U 14 age category?? Why should FIDE dictate our national championship?? Why should she be restricted to playing only in the U 8 Open or the U 8 Girls??

Bob A

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Hi Bob,

Well, I am not sure why we should spend time on this issue. Is it because we want to chase better results at all costs (like your example of U8 Mary being stronger than any present U14)?

Think about it from a different angle: what psychological impact would such decision have on a lot of juniors knowing at any moment and out of the blue a stronger player might decide to enter their age category at CYCC? Personally I consider this impact damaging and not at all in line with our CFC goal to promote chess and give everyone their equal chance to get better by being exposed to the tournaments they could qualify for!

Regards

P.S. Why would Canada feel the need to be (again...) different from other FIDE federations? Chess is not hockey...

[Ken Craft]

I thought the Junior Coordinator stated that a player can play in any section they choose for which they are young enough to play in.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

...the Junior Coordinator stated that a player can play in any section they choose for which they are young enough to play in.

True. (see http://chesscanada.info/forum/showpo...9&postcount=68 in the long thread about CYCC Regional Qualifiers http://chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2309 )

[Bob Armstrong]

Thanks to Egis who found the clear CFC Policy Statement on Playing Up in the CYCC, by Youth Coordinator, Patrick McDonald:

I am willing to state the rule that I will apply until over-ruled by some authority:

If someone wants to play in an age category older than the one they qualify for, they can do so.

BUT: if they win a spot in a certain age category to play at the WYCC, that is the age category that we are willing to send them to the WYCC in.

IE: if one player who is 9 years old, wishes to play in the U14 section at the CYCC, and if they win a spot to go to the WYCC, the only age category that Canada will send them to the WYCC in is the U14 section.

The same would go for girls that would like to play in the open section for their age group (or older) ... if a girl plays in the open section and wins a spot to go to the WYCC, then the only section that Canada will send them to the WYCC in is the section that they qualified in at the CYCC.

Oh, and BTW: the age categories are by Year of Birth. we will not consider someone being born on December 31 as a different section as someone born on December 30 just as we will not consider someone born on January 1 as a different section as someone born on January 2.
We do not need to consider the month nor day of birth, only the YEAR of birth. That should make it simple for everyone.

[ found at http://chesscanada.info/forum/showpo...9&postcount=68 ]

[Fred McKim]

Thanks to Egis who found the clear CFC Policy Statement on Playing Up in the CYCC, by Youth Coordinator, Patrick McDonald:

I am willing to state the rule that I will apply until over-ruled by some authority:

If someone wants to play in an age category older than the one they qualify for, they can do so.

BUT: if they win a spot in a certain age category to play at the WYCC, that is the age category that we are willing to send them to the WYCC in.

IE: if one player who is 9 years old, wishes to play in the U14 section at the CYCC, and if they win a spot to go to the WYCC, the only age category that Canada will send them to the WYCC in is the U14 section.

The same would go for girls that would like to play in the open section for their age group (or older) ... if a girl plays in the open section and wins a spot to go to the WYCC, then the only section that Canada will send them to the WYCC in is the section that they qualified in at the CYCC.

Oh, and BTW: the age categories are by Year of Birth. we will not consider someone being born on December 31 as a different section as someone born on December 30 just as we will not consider someone born on January 1 as a different section as someone born on January 2.
We do not need to consider the month nor day of birth, only the YEAR of birth. That should make it simple for everyone.

[ found at http://chesscanada.info/forum/showpo...9&postcount=68 ]

This is my understanding as to what we agreed upon a couple of months ago.