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Thread: CYCC Regional Qualifiers

  1. #21

    Default Age Group Playing-Up - No Problem

    Hi Bob G:

    Sorry but I don't see any problem with a 7 year old being Canadian U 10 Open Champion, if he is the " best " U 10. But you are right that he then must play for Canada in the WYCC U 10 Open - when he chooses his age group initially, he must stay there. Thus all your " straw man " problems just don't arise.

    I don't know about the Canadian history, but I think it is done in the USA YCC.

    Bob A

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    But you are right that he then must play for Canada in the WYCC U 10 Open - when he chooses his age group initially, he must stay there.
    Bob A
    Ah yes, but there is the problem. The competition is much stronger at the WYCC, so inevitably the kid will regret his/her decision and wish to switch back to their proper age group. And when we say no, well....I'm just saying.

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Ah yes, but there is the problem. The competition is much stronger at the WYCC, so inevitably the kid will regret his/her decision and wish to switch back to their proper age group. And when we say no, well....I'm just saying.
    Hi Bob G:

    I acknowledge that as a real, possible, practical problem. But don/t we do what is right, and hunker down in the storm? We ask firmly that people play by the rules.

    Bob A

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Do we have any history of kids playing up an age group at the CYCC? What were the ground rules, and where there any unintended consequences or problems?
    The Magazine publishes ratings limiting only to two years in U categories, even U20 (Juniors) where no age restrictions exists just to be younger than 20.

    From the latest:

    Code:
    U18
    1 Sapozhnikov, Roman  17  ON 2501 
    2 Martchenko, Alexander 18  ON 2412 
    3 Kleinman, Michael  17  ON 2408 
    4 Calugar, Arthur  17  ON 2377
    5 Yuan, Yuanling  17  ON 2328 
    6 Gelis, Paul  18  ON 2251
    Code:
    U16
    1  Qin, Zi Yi (Joey)  15  ON  2339 
    .*-1

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    Hi Bob G:

    Sorry but I don't see any problem with a 7 year old being Canadian U 10 Open Champion, if he is the " best " U 10. But you are right that he then must play for Canada in the WYCC U 10 Open - when he chooses his age group initially, he must stay there. Thus all your " straw man " problems just don't arise.

    I don't know about the Canadian history, but I think it is done in the USA YCC.

    Bob A
    Makes one wonder why it is called under 10 then, doesn't it? Perhaps it should have been called [9-10]...

    I think Bob G. points out some potential pitfalls elsewhere in this thread (and they are not theoretical problems given the recent kerfuffles we have seen when the 'rules' were enforced).

    Unless the wording is precise and the rules very clear (including all eventualities that can be reasonably seen), people will work to find a way to do what they want. Sadly, this leads to multi-page 'rules and regulations' containing every scenario under the sun pre-determined with the usual catch-all at the end saying that the organizer reserves the right to do whatever they feel like doing...

  6. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    And when we say no, well....I'm just saying.
    It has being done before here, so it’s should not be rocket science anymore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

    But don/t we do what is right, and hunker down in the storm?
    Thinking what you think is right and what is actually right are two totally different things!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    We ask firmly that people play by the rules.
    Bob A
    Yes, we seen that work flawlessly in the past and recent case, with great effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Liles View Post
    I think Bob G. points out some potential pitfalls elsewhere in this thread
    I agree with you Kerry on this point, that there are a lot of pitfalls in this thread, that also highlights pitfalls in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Bond View Post
    For crying out loud guys!!! Have we nothing better to do?
    Even Hal stepped in to express his thoughts regarding this thread.

    This thread is turning into a real circus. Should be interesting how it will unfold, along with very intense 2016 Olympic drive push!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Hold your horses Bob. On the surface, that sounds obvious, but think it thru.

    Say some hot shot 7 year old decides to play in the U10 section instead of U8, and he wins 1st, what happens? Remember, we are also picking our champions for the WYCC. Does he then go to WYCC as our U10 champion, or can he then switch back to our U8 champion at WYCC? What about the poor kid who did win the U8 at CYCC? And what about the 2nd place kid U10 at CYCC? Not so simple anymore, eh. I think we should discourage, if not outright ban, playing up an age category at the CYCC!

    Do we have any history of kids playing up an age group at the CYCC? What were the ground rules, and where there any unintended consequences or problems?
    Things may have changed in 10 years, but the rule was strict that players in the CYCC had to play in their own age group. Exceptions could be granted, but I'm not sure if there ever were any cases.

  8. #28

    Default Playing-Up - Should be Allowed

    Under a system prohibiting playing up, if junior George is 7 years old, and a GM with a rating of 2700, he must play in the U 8 Open, with opponents rated in the 1300’s. He cannot play in the U 18 Open, with the cream of Canada’s youth players, some of whom are IM’s.

    Not good IMHO.

    I agree with Fred that an " exception " committee is one way to go. If a child wants to play up, they make an application to someone, who in their wise discretion decides on a case by case basis. This is the least favourable option in my mind. Arbitrariness will be the charge of the day.

    Best to give kids the freedom to choose! Why not? I agree there should be a limit to playing up - cannot be more than 100 pts. below the bottom ranked player when registrations close. And if the child, George, plays in the U 10 Open CYCC, and becomes champion, then he gets to go to the WYCC and play for Canada - in the U 10 Open.

    If he then, however, wants to go back to the U 8 Open WYCC, fine - but he loses his U 10 bursary, which then devolves to the second place player. And George cannot displace the U 8 Open CYCC champion if he decides to play in the U 8 WYCC. He pays his own way, and the U 8 Open Can. Champion has a protected bursary.

    Bob A

  9. #29
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    There have been years where an older group actually is not as strong at the top as the next lower age group. It was felt that there would be too much strategizing and last minute entering by some players if they could play out of their age group.

  10. #30

    Default

    A player should be permitted to play in any section for which they are young enough to play in. Anything else is rampant discrimination.

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