19. Suggested Items for the April Meeting

[Christopher Field]

Motion (moved by Christopher Field, seconded by Pierre Dénommée):
That Crosstables / Tableaux de résultats be posted on the CFC website in the international format, using the symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

Discussion:
This is the format used in all international chess books.
It is readily understood by people who speak any language.
We need to remove the default use of English symbols in this, our BILINGUAL country.
The Swiss Sys software has these symbols readily available for all TDs to use. Unfortunately, they are referred to as "Math Symbols" instead of "International" or "multilingual" symbols.
The forms which TDs submit for rating could be modified to change the standings to this format, even if the TD has not used it.
I would also like to see an attempt made to update all old results to this format, but I realise that would take some time and expense, so I would start with new events.
This would help to make the French language website more effective.

[Pierre Dénommée]

On a FIDE report, + means unrated forfeit win and - means unrated forfeit loss.

A good change that I am willing to second would to to change for 0, 1 and ½ for games that have been played and + and - for unrated forfeits.

Motion (moved by Christopher Field, seconded by Pierre Dénommée):
That Crosstables / Tableaux de résultats be posted on the CFC website in the international format, using the symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

Discussion:
This is the format used in all international chess books.
It is readily understood by people who speak any language.
We need to remove the default use of English symbols in this, our BILINGUAL country.
The Swiss Sys software has these symbols readily available for all TDs to use. Unfortunately, they are referred to as "Math Symbols" instead of "International" or "multilingual" symbols.
The forms which TDs submit for rating could be modified to change the standings to this format, even if the TD has not used it.
I would also like to see an attempt made to update all old results to this format, but I realise that would take some time and expense, so I would start with new events.
This would help to make the French language website more effective.

[Christopher Field]

On a FIDE report, + means unrated forfeit win and - means unrated forfeit loss.

A good change that I am willing to second would to to change for 0, 1 and ½ for games that have been played and + and - for unrated forfeits.

Pierre, I am not sure on this.
We are talking here about crosstables or tableaux de résultats.
Numbers refer to the opponents.
Currently, the symbols used for the results are the default English language abbreviations W for win, L for loss, D for draw.

I am just talking about replacing these symbols with the language-neutral symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

I hope that this will be acceptable:
In a tournament of 30 players and 5 rounds, for example, a possible line for player #12 goes:
12. name rating +24 -6 =14 +8 -4 2.5 (final score)

instead of
12. name rating W24 L6 D14 W8 L4 2.5

The crosstables / tableaux de résultats are displayed in both the Englsih and French websites.
I think it is much better that language-neutral symbols be used, rather than English based symbols.

Chris Field.

[Lyle Craver]

I agree with Chris but win lose and draw are not the only outcomes of a game.

We have 1-bye, 1/2-bye, 0-bye, 1-forfeit and 0-forfeit. Any others I've forgotten? Each have different meanings with respect to ratings and tiebreaks.

My bottom line is that as long the software can support it - that we don't have to designate some poor 'volunteer' to change the more obscure results in cross-tables - I'm all for it.

I have always been strongly in favor of French-language services in the CFC as I am well aware that the CFC's name includes the words "OF CANADA" even if I may have from time to time rolled my eyes at some of the things I've seen coming from the FQE and AEM.

We don't have the resources to do everything the FQE would like (and much of what they like is inimical to the CFC) but what we can do we should and this is one of them.

[Valer Eugen Demian]

How about bringing forward a volunteer any time a change like this is required? With all due respect the World we live in has become much smaller for this petty continuous cry for bilingual services without any alternative provided in the same time.

There are thousands of languages in the World and possibly hundreds spoken in this bilingual country of ours. If I would want anything also translated in Romanian, I would offer my services to perform that translation. Of course I do understand French is an official language (I do know it BTW...), but the logic behind my point stands!

[Pierre Dénommée]

I agree with Chris but win lose and draw are not the only outcomes of a game.

We have 1-bye, 1/2-bye, 0-bye, 1-forfeit and 0-forfeit. Any others I've forgotten?

You forgot 1/2-0 and 0-1/2 (cell phone ring or third illegal move but the opponent cannot deliver mate with a series of legal moves).

1-1/2 and 1/2-1 are theoretically possibles. Even 1-1 is not forbidden but that would bring the game of Chess into disrepute and the players in other games would likely appeal. Also, this would produce rating inflation.

13.4


The arbiter can apply one or more of the following penalties:

warning
increasing the remaining time of the opponent
reducing the remaining time of the offending player
declaring the game to be lost
reducing the points scored in the game by the offending party
increasing the points scored in the game by the opponent to the maximum available for that game
expulsion from the event.

[Christopher Field]

You forgot 1/2-0 and 0-1/2 (cell phone ring or third illegal move but the opponent cannot deliver mate with a series of legal moves.

1-1/2 and 1/2-1 are theoretically possibles. Even 1-1 is not forbidden but that would bring the game of Chess into disrepute and the players in other games would likely appeal. Also, this would produce rating inflation.

13.4


The arbiter can apply one or more of the following penalties:

warning
increasing the remaining time of the opponent
reducing the remaining time of the offending player
declaring the game to be lost
reducing the points scored in the game by the offending party
increasing the points scored in the game by the opponent to the maximum available for that game
expulsion from the event.

I am only talking about the symbols which are readily available in Swiss Sys.
Yes, for other situations than over-the-board results, the symbols remain as they are:
H = half-point bye ; B = full-point bye ; U = unpaired (withdrawn).

I have searched recent tournaments, and I cannot find other situations, but I am sure there are symbols for:
forfeit win ; forfeit loss ; whatever else.

Yes, some of these symbols will be based on English words.
But these other results are relatively infrequent.

At least by using + , - , and = for over-the-board results, we can reduce the use of symbols based on English words for most of the crosstables.

Chris Field.

[Pierre Dénommée]

I have seen the crosstables on the CFC website and I understand the problem.

I am only talking about the symbols which are readily available in Swiss Sys.
Yes, for other situations than over-the-board results, the symbols remain as they are:
H = half-point bye ; B = full-point bye ; U = unpaired (withdrawn).

I have searched recent tournaments, and I cannot find other situations, but I am sure there are symbols for:
forfeit win ; forfeit loss ; whatever else.

Yes, some of these symbols will be based on English words.
But these other results are relatively infrequent.

At least by using + , - , and = for over-the-board results, we can reduce the use of symbols based on English words for most of the crosstables.

Chris Field.

[Lyle Craver]

At one time the Office required crosstables to be in the + - = format for submission and I spent a lot of time translating my crosstables for submission!

I assure you it was no fun at all and I was using MS Word + E-mail for my submissions so there was nothing automatic about it.

I think this is a move we should be proceeding with and if we require a dozen or so exception codes for the obscure off the wall stuff then this is something that should not unduly burden the Office.

Do we have a consensus that the REALLY obscure stuff wouldn't happen more than once every 25 tournaments or so? (i.e. anything other than +, -, =, the various results involving byes and the 1-0 or 0-1 forfeit)

Do we REALLY need a special result for 'game adjourned due to PCB's from blown ballasts dripping on the table'? (I actually had that in a Manitoba Open I directed some 25 years ago) I think not!

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

crosstables

Some time ago crosstables had towns/cities where the events took place. Now it is only province. Can it be corrected to show a more exact place?