View Poll Results: Motion to withdraw motion 2012-H

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  • YES

    19 90.48%
  • NO

    0 0%
  • ABSTAIN

    2 9.52%
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Thread: 8. 2012-H TDOCP Motion (Simon Ong)

  1. #31
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    Default CFC TDs

    The program went dormant in 1992 as far as I can remember. It needed improving and was put on hold.

    Several attempts at geting the program off the ground failed. In 2004 the Provincial Federations were asked by me for a list of people to grandfather. Those lists are on the CFC website.

    When those lists were being compiled I was exposed to strong opinions about some TDs. I did not move on personal dislikes or opinions on suitability or lack of judgement becase nothing like complaints casting aspersions on these folks existed at the CFC. Backbiting TDs is so popular but not very productive.

    In 2004 tournaments had been running for 12 years and a whole new generation of TDs had come to the forefront without the benefit of a formal CFC TD program. At various times something was done to train TDs. BC, Que and Alberta had more or less formal TD programs at that time.

    It is now 2012 and the list from 2004 is older than sin. I would suggest that we use Pattersons lists of TDs and grandfather some more folks that have run 5-10-20 or 30 CFC rated events.

    It is critical for us to get more people running tournaments. A start is perhaps to recognize those who have been carrying the can.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aris Marghetis View Post
    There are FAs & IAs (another CFC webpage : http://chess.ca/arbiters-and-organizers ) that must have largely achieved those levels while our "TDOCP" was relatively dormant? Shouldn't all FAs & IAs, even IOs, active or inactive, also be designated as CFC NTDs?
    The TDOCP has been dormant despite my attempts to revive it. Before organizing my first CFC rated tournament, i tried to get ca CFC certification but they were no longer offered. I have met the old requirements for NTD before becoming an IA but to my best knowledge, only one NTD has been officially awarded in a long period of time.

    I agree that FA and IA should get the NTD title. I would second an amendment to that effect.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim View Post
    It seems there is an existing committee, now, so I suppose you could issue the request to revoke all of these titles to them.
    According to the CFC web site, this Committee has only one member.

  4. #34

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    Lyle,

    I wonder if it can be amended in time. It seems that motions dealing with the TDOCP get tabled at an alarming rate.

    If memory serves well, the list of arbiters have been retroactively declared not adopted by the President because of a technicality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle Craver View Post
    Pierre makes very good sense to the extent that my personal #1 option would be to table this motion with a view to re-introducing it in April in a re-drafted form.

    There is both the question of unaffiliated federations (mostly the FQE but not entirely so), at what level we require TD certification, the question of fees and non-specific language concerning software.

    Speaking personally I would prefer tabling to taking a final vote on this motion now in its present form.

    I support the idea - but the devil is in the details.

  5. #35

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    The FQE has not only the names, but it also has all the examinations written by all FQE certified LTD. The FQE runs a 4 levels program. The level's names are : local, regional, senior and national. In Quebec, National is often misused for Provincial. All Quebec Provincial Parks are referred to as National Parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halldor P. Palsson View Post
    TIn 2004 tournaments had been running for 12 years and a whole new generation of TDs had come to the forefront without the benefit of a formal CFC TD program. At various times something was done to train TDs. BC, Que and Alberta had more or less formal TD programs at that time..

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Mallon View Post
    Consider this a challenge then.

    Why should someone at a provincial association be able to make up a list any which way they want and we call those people certified?
    Each time that we discuss the TDOCP, there is always a lot of problems. Motions dealing with the TDOCP have all been tabled and forgotten. At the AGM, the assembly has always refused to elect volunteers to the TDOCP.

    It should be simple, we must have a list of arbiters. Furthermore, we have a duty towards FIDE to filter the applications for FA, IA and IO.

    I have just one question. What is the real problem that we are so afraid of facing and that is so badly interfering with the normal operation of the TDOCP? Is it only the grandfathering of the Ontario arbiters? We cannot let a local problem stands in the way of the CFC. The CFC is a national organisation dealing with national problems. Filtering the FIDE applications, organizing seminars, administrating examinations, certifying arbiters and organizers are all national issues. We have been incapable to deal with those issue.

    I can only congratulate the CFC Executive for the production the list of arbiters, whether it is perfect or not. It is better to begin with this list and then correct it. If the errors concern only a single province, there is no reason to penalize the entire country. TDOCP members of the other provinces should be able to sort this out. If it has been done in a completely arbitrary manner, then it will have to be undone. The first problem is to prove that some provinces have not done their jobs seriously.

    There should be an easier first step: it is possible that some of the persons of this list no longer want to be arbiters and their names should be removed at their request.

    Did you know that the only involvement of Canada Basketball in the referring process is to sign the applications for the title of International Arbiter? The true job is done by the Canadian Association of Basketball Official. I sometime wonder if the TDOCP job who not be done better by an independent Canadian Association of Chess Officials . All IA, FA and IO in Canada would be the original members. Self control of arbiters by the arbiters works well and the model has been copied by other countries.

  7. #37

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    The mover and seconder of 2012-H are seeking the permission of the assembly to withdraw their motion for further fine tuning and future resubmission. Lyle was to have opened a poll to this effect a couple of days ago, but he seems to be otherwise occupied. In any event, when polls open, be prepared for a question regarding withdrawal of the motion.

  8. #38
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    North Vancouver, BC
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    Default

    Actually Ken, I wrote the exams for both the Certified and Regional titles. I got my NTD by virtue of the International Arbiter Title.

    I'm going from memory here but both CTD and RTD were mid-1980s for me. My memory of the RTD exam was that it was fairly tough but anyone who had done half a dozen tournaments at a regional or provincial level ought not to have had too much difficulty.

    An important element in my opinion is TD judgment which is difficult to quantify in multiple choice form. I've had to deal with all kinds of situations where 'would this decision be fair' and 'is it good for the tournament or chess in this area' can fairly have been asked.

    I well remember when I was at McMaster (1982-83) and played in the Ontario Open and had one of the worst tournaments of my life - it was Monday of a long weekend and I had been hoping for redemption in the last round and knew I was not in line for a bye. At the appointed round time I indeed DID get a bye on the grounds that the TD did not want to give a bye to a junior - even though this was completely against the rules. I protested but got nowhere and resolved never to play in this gentleman's tournaments again. (No need to name him - he's still active in chess)

    I would hope a director who would make such a decision - both against the rules and screwing over an out of town player - would not receive a Regional or National TD title. How one would examine that sort of thing is beyond me.

  9. #39
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    Default Motion to withdraw 2012-h

    Moved: Ong; Seconded: Bond

    Whereas further work is required on the motion;
    Be it resolved that the assembly allow Motion 2012-H to be withdrawn.

    The President has ruled consent of the Assembly is required to allow the motion to be withdrawn once put to the assembly.

    Accordingly, please vote yes, no or abstain.

    Deadline is midnight Thursday - this is as much time as we can give for voting since if this motion fails it would require extension of the meeting if beyond this date.

  10. #40

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    If the movers want to withdraw the motion, I see no reason to oppose.

    Hal, fell free to contact me if you require assistance. This motion is important and it cannot be delayed forever.

    It is a huge piece of work. For examples see

    Baseball Canada http://www.baseball.ca/files/Operati...ual+v+2011.pdf

    Volleyball Canada http://www.volleyball.ca/sites/www.v...Feb%202011.pdf

    Compared to these huge documents, I ounce make a short and sweet motion that has been tabled .

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