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Thread: Pre-1996 Lifetime High Ratings

  1. #1
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    Default Pre-1996 Lifetime High Ratings

    Occasionally I get a request to update the CFC Lifetime High rating for an individual who would like his/her lifetime high updated to reflect a pre-1996 personal high.
    I'm willing to do a few of these on a trial basis unless the demand becomes overwhelming.
    At the moment Predrag Putic claims that he achieved a rating of 2350 not long before the 1996 start date for the current rating data base.
    If anyone out there has old magazines with rating lists for 1994 to 1996 and is willing to check it out, please let me know.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer, Chess Foundation of Canada
    CFC Voting Member

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    The August 1996 Semi-Annual list has Predrag Putic at 2219, which is also the number given for his highest rating. There is a previous value of 2275/20 in the October 1995 issue of En Passant, but this is provisional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    Occasionally I get a request to update the CFC Lifetime High rating for an individual who would like his/her lifetime high updated to reflect a pre-1996 personal high.
    I'm willing to do a few of these on a trial basis unless the demand becomes overwhelming.
    At the moment Predrag Putic claims that he achieved a rating of 2350 not long before the 1996 start date for the current rating data base.
    If anyone out there has old magazines with rating lists for 1994 to 1996 and is willing to check it out, please let me know.
    Seriously?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
    Occasionally I get a request to update the CFC Lifetime High rating for an individual who would like his/her lifetime high updated to reflect a pre-1996 personal high.
    I'm willing to do a few of these on a trial basis unless the demand becomes overwhelming.
    At the moment Predrag Putic claims that he achieved a rating of 2350 not long before the 1996 start date for the current rating data base.
    If anyone out there has old magazines with rating lists for 1994 to 1996 and is willing to check it out, please let me know.
    I have made a file of players who had achieved a 2200 rating, 1966-1996, I might add a column for their maximum Established rating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Malmsten View Post
    I have made a file of players who had achieved a 2200 rating, 1966-1996, I might add a column for their maximum Established rating.
    Erik, if you get really ambitious, would you be able to indicate those who maintained a rating of 2200+ for 24 consecutive games in that time period, as well as the year the 24th game occurred?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael von Keitz View Post
    Erik, if you get really ambitious, would you be able to indicate those who maintained a rating of 2200+ for 24 consecutive games in that time period, as well as the year the 24th game occurred?
    It could be too ambitious, as the number of games were not indicated in the rating lists. (at least what I have).
    .*-1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Malmsten View Post
    I have made a file of players who had achieved a 2200 rating, 1966-1996, I might add a column for their maximum Established rating.
    Yes, I think the maximum rating would be good to have. I was thinking that if somebody historically achieved 2300 then this should be good enough to achieve the NM title.

    Obviously you can't count games, but if somebody was ambitious enough they could count rating changes (magazine to magazine) while over 2200 (1973-1996) with each rating change counting for 5 games. Prior to 1973 we could call annual changes worth 10 games.

    Of course people can also provide their own evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim View Post
    Yes, I think the maximum rating would be good to have. I was thinking that if somebody historically achieved 2300 then this should be good enough to achieve the NM title.
    We will probably need to make a motion to that effect at the next online governors meeting and get it passed to make it official.

    Obviously you can't count games, but if somebody was ambitious enough they could count rating changes (magazine to magazine) while over 2200 (1973-1996) with each rating change counting for 5 games. Prior to 1973 we could call annual changes worth 10 games.

    Of course people can also provide their own evidence.
    In the case of people who are not paying attention to this new development we probably don't have to do anything. Our first priority should be the people who are current members.

    I found the whole process slow and cumbersome while checking the online ratings database to verify the eligibility of people for NM titles. Thumbing through old magazines will be an order of magnitude more cumbersome. Obviously anyone who made it to 2300 before the era of rating boons deserves to be recognized for their accomplishments. At the same time I don't think that we need to twist ourselves out of shape and create a lot of work that distracts us from more important concerns and tasks which are more relevant to our current situation and that will help us in advancing our agenda to promote chess and make the CFC more viable and vital.

  9. #9

    Default list of historical CFC masters

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael von Keitz View Post
    Erik, if you get really ambitious, would you be able to indicate those who maintained a rating of 2200+ for 24 consecutive games in that time period, as well as the year the 24th game occurred?
    I am listing them by the first year they go over 2200, as earlier is the more exciting --"My rating's over 2200!!"-- and easy to verify.

    I was that ambitious by using fudging logic: If a player's CFC master rating is changing over 3 annual lists, that the player is likely active and has probably played more than 24 games. If their rating is over 2200 for only one annual list, than I say it's possible that they haven't played 24. Also, for new players have to not count their first 24 games which are provisional.

    From 1966 (the beginning of ELO 2200=master) through 1995 I listed 228 players [who never got a FIDE over-the-board title]. Using the fudging logic, that lists shrinks down to 97 players. 37 of these players had 2300 ratings, (except before 1988) but few opportunites for FIDE-rated play, or pre-FM titles.

    I could go through the tournament reports and count some of the games, making a conservative list of only players whose 24 games are verifiable, but impossible to prove that they were consecutive without having the CFC rating card [in the national archives?]. Some are quite clearly experienced masters, but how to treat those who briefly peaked then returned to expert? Or, also common, dropped out of chess after reaching a master rating (sometimes returning a few years later).

    I could also break the list into two: players who are still recently active, and those who haven't played in a CFC game in the past 10 years.

    My fudged list with a sample rating (not necessaily their highest):
    Elod Macskasy 1966 {also master pre 1966}
    Rudolf Draxl 1966
    Lionel Joyner 1967 {also master pre 1966} 2401
    Walter Dobrich 1969
    Peter Nurmi 1973
    Robert Wachtel 1974
    Leo Williams 1975
    Robert Chow 1975 2325
    Milan Vukadinov 1976 2390
    Joe Oszvald 1976 2313
    David Lavin 1978
    Peter Murray 1979
    Jan Greben 1979 2307
    Stephen Ball 1979
    Dale Kirton 1979 2312
    Victor Dzera 1980
    Jan Pajak 1980 2357
    David Filipovich 1980 2314
    Dan Scoones 1980
    Jeff Reeve 1980 2398
    Robert South 1981 2316
    Fred South 1981 2297
    Brian McLaren 1981
    John Burstow 1982 2305
    Ian Kilgour 1982
    Doug Bailey 1984 2323
    Jozef Polacek 1984 2345
    Jonathan Schaeffer 1984
    Paul Brown 1985
    Harold Brown 1985 2299
    Kevin Pacey 1985 2337
    Peter Dauvergne 1985 2296
    Paul Janicki 1986
    Roger Patterson 1986 2304
    Carl Storey 1986 2291
    Robert Sasata 1986
    Harry Moore 1986 2350
    Robin Girard 1986 2311
    Glenn Morin 1986 2312
    Rehan Huda 1986 2346
    Martin Devenport 1986 2300
    Arthur Prystenski 1986 2296
    Aron Kaptsan 1986
    Ian Skulsky 1986
    Prosanto Sarkar 1986 2318
    Steven Peter 1987 2302
    David Southam 1987 2300
    Gilbert Sommerfield 1987
    Imitiaz Husain 1987
    Brian Fiedler 1988
    Jeff Coakley 1988
    Wayne Barclay 1988
    Billy Peckford 1988 2326
    John Armstrong 1988
    Robert Kiviaho 1988 2369
    Arniel Frialde 1988 2297
    Zbigniew Okolotowicz 1988
    Nicholas Spears 1988
    Knut Nevan 1989
    Ben Walker 1989
    Robert Gardner 1989
    Saifudin Kanani 1989
    Bobby Palacios 1990
    Andrei Moffat 1990
    Brad Booker 1991
    Mayo Fuentebella 1991
    Paul Williams 1991
    Assem-Magdy Amin 1992 2358
    Laszlo Bekefi 1992 2388
    Josip Mihaljevic 1992 2378
    Pierre Gladu 1992
    Ian McGarrett 1992 2333
    Barry Rasmussen 1992
    Peter Ferguson 1992 2304
    Gevork Taschian 1992
    Danilo Marquez 1992 2316
    Dale McTavish 1993
    Armando Valdizon 1993 2307
    George Vlaovic 1993 2330
    Sasha Starr 1994
    Bill Bogle 1994
    Jean-Francois Wen 1994
    Bill Evans 1994
    Marc Moisan-Plante 1994 2304
    Roger Langen 1994
    Simon Gravel 1995 2422
    Miladin Djerkovic 1995 2385
    Kent Loo 1995
    John Hallam 1995 2304
    Sasha Grumic 1995
    Meng Lou 1995
    Paul Beckwith 1995
    John Ferrar 1996 2314
    Anthony Howarth 1996
    Last edited by Erik Malmsten; 11-04-2011 at 09:51 PM. Reason: added 3 ratings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Malmsten View Post
    I am listing them by the first year they go over 2200, as earlier is the more exciting --"My rating's over 2200!!"-- and easy to verify.

    I was that ambitious by using fudging logic: If a player's CFC master rating is changing over 3 annual lists, that the player is likely active and has probably played more than 24 games. If their rating is over 2200 for only one annual list, than I say it's possible that they haven't played 24. Also, for new players have to not count their first 24 games which are provisional.

    From 1966 (the beginning of ELO 2200=master) through 1995 I listed 228 players [who never got a FIDE over-the-board title]. Using the fudging logic, that lists shrinks down to 97 players. 37 of these players had 2300 ratings, (except before 1988) but few opportunites for FIDE-rated play, or pre-FM titles.

    I could go through the tournament reports and count some of the games, making a conservative list of only players whose 24 games are verifiable, but impossible to prove that they were consecutive without having the CFC rating card [in the national archives?]. Some are quite clearly experienced masters, but how to treat those who briefly peaked then returned to expert? Or, also common, dropped out of chess after reaching a master rating (sometimes returning a few years later).

    I could also break the list into two: players who are still recently active, and those who haven't played in a CFC game in the past 10 years.

    My fudged list with a sample rating (not necessaily their highest):
    Elod Macskasy 1966 {also master pre 1966}
    Rudolf Draxl 1966
    Lionel Joyner 1967 {also master pre 1966} 2401
    Walter Dobrich 1969
    Peter Nurmi 1973
    Robert Wachtel 1974
    Leo Williams 1975
    Robert Chow 1975 2325
    Milan Vukadinov 1976 2390
    Joe Oszvald 1976 2313
    David Lavin 1978
    Peter Murray 1979
    Jan Greben 1979 2307
    Stephen Ball 1979
    Dale Kirton 1979 2312
    Victor Dzera 1980
    Jan Pajak 1980 2357
    David Filipovich 1980 2314
    Dan Scoones 1980
    Jeff Reeve 1980 2398
    Robert South 1981 2316
    Fred South 1981 2297
    Brian McLaren 1981
    John Burstow 1982 2305
    Ian Kilgour 1982
    Doug Bailey 1984 2323
    Jozef Polacek 1984 2345
    Jonathan Schaeffer 1984
    Paul Brown 1985
    Harold Brown 1985 2299
    Kevin Pacey 1985 2337
    Peter Dauvergne 1985 2296
    Paul Janicki 1986
    Roger Patterson 1986 2304
    Carl Storey 1986 2291
    Robert Sasata 1986
    Harry Moore 1986 2350
    Robin Girard 1986 2311
    Glenn Morin 1986 2312
    Rehan Huda 1986 2346
    Martin Devenport 1986 2300
    Arthur Prystenski 1986 2296
    Aron Kaptsan 1986
    Ian Skulsky 1986
    Prosanto Sarkar 1986 2318
    Steven Peter 1987 2302
    David Southam 1987 2300
    Gilbert Sommerfield 1987
    Imitiaz Husain 1987
    Brian Fiedler 1988
    Jeff Coakley 1988
    Wayne Barclay 1988
    Billy Peckford 1988 2326
    John Armstrong 1988
    Robert Kiviaho 1988 2369
    Arniel Frialde 1988 2297
    Zbigniew Okolotowicz 1988
    Nicholas Spears 1988
    Knut Nevan 1989
    Ben Walker 1989
    Robert Gardner 1989
    Saifudin Kanani 1989
    Bobby Palacios 1990
    Andrei Moffat 1990
    Brad Booker 1991
    Mayo Fuentebella 1991
    Paul Williams 1991
    Assem-Magdy Amin 1992 2358
    Laszlo Bekefi 1992 2388
    Josip Mihaljevic 1992 2378
    Pierre Gladu 1992
    Ian McGarrett 1992 2333
    Barry Rasmussen 1992
    Peter Ferguson 1992 2304
    Gevork Taschian 1992
    Danilo Marquez 1992 2316
    Dale McTavish 1993
    Armando Valdizon 1993 2307
    George Vlaovic 1993 2330
    Sasha Starr 1994
    Bill Bogle 1994
    Jean-Francois Wen 1994
    Bill Evans 1994
    Marc Moisan-Plante 1994 2304
    Roger Langen 1994
    Simon Gravel 1995 2422
    Miladin Djerkovic 1995 2385
    Kent Loo 1995
    John Hallam 1995 2304
    Sasha Grumic 1995
    Meng Lou 1995
    Paul Beckwith 1995
    John Ferrar 1996 2314
    Anthony Howarth 1996
    Erik: Thank you for the work done on this. I think there is a good liklihood we can add these players to the list. I'll see what Vlad and Michael think.

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