13. CYCC Eligibility Motion (Motion 2012-A)

[Christopher Mallon]

Is there still a need to vote on the division of the original motion?

Why wouldn't there be?

[Ellen Nadeau]

I do not share Michael's views that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.
There is even further questions for me. I had refused participation in a CYCC to a Canadian citizen who held multiple citizenships and was listed with another country for FIDE. As they would be ineligible to represent Canada at the subsequent WYCC, I refused entry to the CYCC. If we accept someone who cannot receive the stated prize award those who play against them will complain also.
Which way do we want to go on this question?

[Michael Barron]

...
And especially thanks to the mover and seconder for the change to 1057 - for me it has always been oxymoronic to let a player play in a qualifying event if he/she is not eligible to play in the event that the tournament qualifies one for.
...

Lyle,

Let's be clear here:
CYCC is first of all a Canadian Championship!
Yes, we use CYCC results to qualify payers to WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international events, but all this is a secondary goal.
We should encourage all Canadians to participate at CYCC.

So, the question actually is:
When a Permanent Resident becomes a Canadian:
when he arrives to Canada or only 12 months later?

[Michael Barron]

I do not share Michael's views that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.
There is even further questions for me. I had refused participation in a CYCC to a Canadian citizen who held multiple citizenships and was listed with another country for FIDE. As they would be ineligible to represent Canada at the subsequent WYCC, I refused entry to the CYCC. If we accept someone who cannot receive the stated prize award those who play against them will complain also.
Which way do we want to go on this question?

Ellen,

Sorry, if I was not clear enough...

I never said that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.

What I'm saying is:
permanent residents, as well as citizens, should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.

As for your second question, let me remind you:
the current Canadian Under 18 Champion Loren Laceste in July was listed with another country for FIDE, and as such was ineligible to represent Canada.

Do you think we shouldn't allow him to play at CYCC because of that?
Do you think Arthur Calugar will complain that he was unfairly knocked out of his Championship title in the last round?

[Ken Jensen]

I agree Ellen,

CYCC is first and foremost the qualifier to determine Canada's representatives to the WYCC. Any rule change that allows players into CYCC who are not eligible for WYCC is just wrong. This is a very bad idea. There is no way for them to attend without affecting the players who are eligible.

The bottom line is every player at the CYCC must be able to represent Canada at the WYCC.

Ken Jensen

[Ken Jensen]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

You do raise a good point regarding flags. This is a point which the rules are mute on so I will offer my opinion. Canadian representatives to WYCC MUST be flagged Canadian with fide. If a foreign flagged player meets the other eligibility requirements and the CFC has a reasonable expectation that fide will transfer the player's flag to Canada before the start of WYCC then the player should be permitted to play in the CYCC. Otherwise No.

Ken Jensen

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

Would a player must be expelled from the tournament if a player would have no plans to attend the WYCC? (He has a lot of potential to ruin others) (The similar case was in a recent Canadian Closed, when the co-winner waived his right to play in the World Cup.)

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Lyle,

Let's be clear here:
CYCC is first of all a Canadian Championship!
Yes, we use CYCC results to qualify payers to WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international events, but all this is a secondary goal.
We should encourage all Canadians to participate at CYCC.

So, the question actually is:
When a Permanent Resident becomes a Canadian:
when he arrives to Canada or only 12 months later?

A Permanent Resident is allowed to apply for citizenship ONLY AFTER it has spent a total of minimum 3 years (continuous or in segments) in the country!

[Michael Barron]

A Permanent Resident is allowed to apply for citizenship ONLY AFTER it has spent a total of minimum 3 years (continuous or in segments) in the country!

Valer,

Sorry, if I was not clear enough...

The question is not about citizenship.
All Governors understand that both categories - citizens and permanent residents - are Canadians.
Hopefully, you wan't insist that only citizens could play at Canadian Championship.

The question is:
When a permanent resident could work in Canada?
When a permanent resident could attend a school in Canada?
When a permanent resident could pay Canadian taxes?

[Michael Barron]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

You do raise a good point regarding flags. This is a point which the rules are mute on so I will offer my opinion. Canadian representatives to WYCC MUST be flagged Canadian with fide. If a foreign flagged player meets the other eligibility requirements and the CFC has a reasonable expectation that fide will transfer the player's flag to Canada before the start of WYCC then the player should be permitted to play in the CYCC. Otherwise No.

Ken Jensen

Ken,

You're free to disagree, but CYCC IS the Canadian Championship for the following reasons:
1) the name of the event is Canadian Youth Chess Championship;
2) it determines the Canadian representatives not only to WYCC, but as well to Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international competitions;
3) I agree to change rule 1001 to avoid misunderstanding.

But I agree with you on the point regarding flags.
It demonstrates that CYCC eligibility and WYCC eligibility are 2 different issues, and the latest could be considered after CYCC.