View Poll Results: I support Chris Mallon's proposal to split this motion in two.

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Thread: 13. CYCC Eligibility Motion (Motion 2012-A)

  1. #1
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    Default 13. CYCC Eligibility Motion (Motion 2012-A)

    Motion 2011 – A – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

    Moved – Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

    Moved –

    a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

    b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

    c) add to p. 1001. Frequency, after the words “ World 10 Championship “ the words “ and World 8 Championship “.

    d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

    e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:

    A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

    g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

    h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    (editorial note: Governors interested in previous discussion on this subject may want to check out http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/sh...?t=1956&page=4)
    Last edited by Lyle Craver; 09-30-2011 at 05:15 AM.

  2. #2
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    I move to divide the motion into two parts. Part one will be the portions referring to sections 1007 and 1057, and part two will be everything else, as shown below. Reasoning is that everything else is "housekeeping" of the rules but 1007 and 1057 are actual changes which have proven to be controversial.

    http://www.netplaces.com/roberts-rul...ion-motion.htm As per Robert's Rules if my motion to divide is seconded it goes to immediate vote without further discussion.

    Divided motions would be:

    #1
    a) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    b) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.
    #2

    a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

    b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

    c) add to p. 1001. Frequency, after the words “ World 10 Championship “ the words “ and World 8 Championship “.

    d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

    e) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

    1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:

    A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

    f) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  3. #3

    Default Seconded

    I will second the motion to separate this proposal.

  4. #4
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    Lyle/Michael, as an administrative suggestion since I don't think we have rules for this precise situation, you could open a vote on the motion to divide and allow discussion to proceed here in the meantime on the actual motion(s). Have the vote to divide close just before the voting on the actual motion begins.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

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    Default I will second this proposal

    I will accept Chris' proposal to put it to a vote and thus have set it up for IMMEDIATE voting will polling to end at the time main voting on the motion is to begin.

    Mr. President is that acceptable?
    Last edited by Lyle Craver; 10-01-2011 at 07:37 PM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Excellent, Lyle!

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    Default

    Great, thanks.
    For those who may have missed it, the poll is actually above the first post in this thread.

    Now, on to discussing the motion itself.

    I support the "housekeeping" portion of this motion. I do not support the portions pertaining to 1007 and 1057. I would, however, accept a compromise between the existing and the proposed rules - that a player must be eligible for the FIDE event (WYCC or World Junior) that the tournament leads to. In other words they must have 12 months of residency as of the start of the World event, rather than the start of the Canadian event.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

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    Thanks Michael.

    And especially thanks to the mover and seconder for the change to 1057 - for me it has always been oxymoronic to let a player play in a qualifying event if he/she is not eligible to play in the event that the tournament qualifies one for.

    Actually it's been a personal sore point since I well remember one tournament back when I was a very young junior where I was tied at 5/5 going into the last round with a junior (who was NOT eligible for the next level event), lost to him and saw the player who had been at 4.5/5 (who normally would have been my last round opponent and who I naturally thought I would have crushed!) qualify instead of me. 40 years later I still remember it sadly...

  9. #9
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    Default Updated Motion

    Sorry, Lyle, if it escaped your attention, but mover and seconder asked you to update the text of the Motion:
    p.1001 should be changed to read:
    "1001. Frequency:
    A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions".

    The correct full text of the CYCC Eligibility Motion is the following:

    "Motion 2011 – A – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

    Moved - Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

    Moved –

    a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

    b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

    c) p. 1001 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
    1001. Frequency:
    A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions.

    d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

    e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

    f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
    1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:
    A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

    g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

    h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
    1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

    Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors."

    Commentary:

    a) The old title of the section is misleading since “ junior “ is now thought of as the U-20 junior championship, and “ cadet “ refers to U-16. But the section really deals with all 12 categories of “ youth “ championships. P. 1000. Events: reads:
    The holding of the Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) which consists of the following twelve events:
    Canadian Under 18 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 16 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 14 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 12 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 10 Championship {Open and Girls}
    Canadian Under 8 Championship {Open and Girls}
    So the title should simply and clearly refer to these events using the common titles.

    b) The title is made consistent with the later title for the Junior Championship.

    c) p. 1001. “ Frequency “ should clarify the main purpose of CYCC. Here is the old text:
    1001. Frequency:
    A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".

    d) The CYCC is more recently a 7-round tournament spread over 4 days, and p. 1002 has never been amended to catch up to this change on the ground. Our amendment brings the section into line with recent practice, though one could still be only three days under this wording. The old p. 1002. Format read:
    The tournament shall be swiss tournament held over three days with the number of rounds to be decided by the tournament organizers taking into account the number and age of the players.

    {Motion Palsson/Doubleday 2007-08 GL1 From AGM} When there are less than eight players for any category, then one or more categories shall be combined so that there are no less than 8 players in the combined category. The combined category shall be decided by the tournament organizers unless directed otherwise by the CFC President who shall hve the final authority to rule on this matter. Where the shortfall occurs in the girls U18, it is recommended that this section be combined with the girls U16. If their insufficient numbers in this combined U18 & U16 girls section, then the U14 Girls should be included with both these sections.

    e) The current p. 1007 restricts Permanent Resident rights, with a “ residency “ requirement for eligibility. It reads:
    1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:
    Each contestant in a Youth Tournament must fulfil the age and residency requirements specified by FIDE for the World event to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a landed immigrant and be a resident of Canada for the twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament. Persons who are not citizens or landed immigrants but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.
    Canadian law now refers to “ landed immigrants “ as “ Permanent Residents “, and this change has been made.
    There are very few Canadian rights that a citizen has, that a " Permanent Resident " does not have. And CFC must be very careful not to unwarrantedly restrict those rights.
    As well, most Permanent Residents eventually take out Canadian citizenship. Many of those who keep their own country citizenship when they come to Canada, do so for a variety of reasons, but never have any intention of returning to their own country on any permanent basis. They all pay taxes, and contribute to their local Canadian communities. Then there are some for whom it is only a convenience for possible future use - but nonetheless, they have adopted Canada as their country of permanent residence, and have gained most Canadian rights and are entitled to use the term “ Canadian “.

    So, from a Canadian perspective, we want to eliminate the " prior residency " rule for participation in Canadian youth chess tournaments. We feel this respects the legal status of a Permanent Resident as a " Canadian ". They are entitled to play in the national youth championships, even if they have just taken up Canadian permanent residency.

    This does leave CFC though, with a restrictive FIDE rule which distinguishes between citizenship, and permanent residence ( and all other status ), for the purpose of which federation flag a person can put on their chess table in FIDE tournaments. CFC will have to live with this for the time being ( might we apply to FIDE to get this changed at some future date, for an accommodation to Canadian law ? ), and blame FIDE for a rule that " interferes with Canadian rights ". Yes, CFC will have to comply for international tournaments. But we do not have to compound the error by imposing a Canadian “ residency “ restriction.

    Besides believing it is right to delete the residency requirement, we are also concerned there could be a successful lawsuit to strike down a " residency " prohibition, that represses a Canadian permanent resident right, like playing in a national Canadian chess championship.

    f) We have introduced into the section 10 the Girls Junior Championship, which has been in place for a few years now.

    g) We have brought the schedule for the Junior Championship in line with the length in recent years.

    h) We have dealt with p. 1057 which has a “ residency “ requirement, consistently with the way we have amended the comparable section for the Canadian Youth Chess Championships above.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  10. #10
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    Default

    Is there still a need to vote on the division of the original motion?

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