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Thread: Junior Chess and the " Residency " Restriction

  1. #21

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    Hi Chris:

    If a permanent resident, who was ineligible by FIDE, played for a Canadian Junior or Canadian Youth title, I would venture that s/he will care, and play their best. And it they win, be a worthy Canadian Champion.

    Bob A

  2. #22

    Default Inherent Wisdom of CFC Governors

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Birarov View Post
    With all my respect to Patrick, I don't see how his opinion has more weight than opinion of any other governor here.
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades. There are always more people watching than doing, so the "uninvolved" vote can always out number the doers.

    Getting a coveted CFC Governor's brass plaque on one's desk does not automatically bestow infinite wisdom in all matters. Of the 36 CFC Governors how many have been the principal organizer of a youth event in the last 12 months? I have heard talk that the Junior program should spin off and create it's own affiliated Canadian Junior Chess Federation, governed by people who are actually putting on the junior programs across the country. It's times like this that give that idea strength.

    The arguments have been made, the rules read and the consequences considered. Your arguments do not disuade me and I know I cannot convince you. We are looking at two totally different pictures. To me this is all about qualifying for WYCC. You argue it is about social equality and political change. We will have to agree to disagree. Not only on the changes to eligibility but also on the value of the opinions of the people actually doing the events, versus those watching from the sidelines.

    Ken Jensen

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades. There are always more people watching than doing, so the "uninvolved" vote can always out number the doers.

    Getting a coveted CFC Governor's brass plaque on one's desk does not automatically bestow infinite wisdom in all matters. Of the 36 CFC Governors how many have been the principal organizer of a youth event in the last 12 months? I have heard talk that the Junior program should spin off and create it's own affiliated Canadian Junior Chess Federation, governed by people who are actually putting on the junior programs across the country. It's times like this that give that idea strength.

    The arguments have been made, the rules read and the consequences considered. Your arguments do not disuade me and I know I cannot convince you. We are looking at two totally different pictures. To me this is all about qualifying for WYCC. You argue it is about social equality and political change. We will have to agree to disagree. Not only on the changes to eligibility but also on the value of the opinions of the people actually doing the events, versus those watching from the sidelines.

    Ken Jensen
    Excellent point Ken! You nailed it. It does complete define what is wrong with CFC, especially relating to its Youth program.

    Quote:"There are always more people watching than doing, so the "uninvolved" vote can always out number the doers."

    Agreed! Also, there are more people talking than doing. We seen how this method perfectly works in recent cases. Puzzling, but for some reason CFC continues to score the failing grade.

    “It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.” -> Sir Josiah Stamp

    Mikhail

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    If a permanent resident, who was ineligible by FIDE, played for a Canadian Junior or Canadian Youth title, I would venture that s/he will care, and play their best. And it they win, be a worthy Canadian Champion.
    Perhaps YOU might, in that situation. You can't possibly say that everyone would, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades. There are always more people watching than doing, so the "uninvolved" vote can always out number the doers.
    You said this much better than I did!
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades. ..........You argue it is about social equality and political change. We will have to agree to disagree. Not only on the changes to eligibility but also on the value of the opinions of the people actually doing the events, versus those watching from the sidelines.

    Ken Jensen
    Two advocates of the motion:

    Michael Barron: GTCL President; former CFC Youth Coordinator
    Vladimir Birarov: Owner/Manager of Toronto Junior Chess Club; organizer of 2011 Canadian Junior Championship.

    Bob A

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    Vladimir Birarov: Owner/Manager of Toronto Junior Chess Club; organizer of 2011 Canadian Junior Championship.

    Bob A
    Excuse me?
    The 2011 Canadian Junior Championship was organized by Mississauga Chess Club!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades. There are always more people watching than doing, so the "uninvolved" vote can always out number the doers.

    Getting a coveted CFC Governor's brass plaque on one's desk does not automatically bestow infinite wisdom in all matters. Of the 36 CFC Governors how many have been the principal organizer of a youth event in the last 12 months? I have heard talk that the Junior program should spin off and create it's own affiliated Canadian Junior Chess Federation, governed by people who are actually putting on the junior programs across the country. It's times like this that give that idea strength.

    The arguments have been made, the rules read and the consequences considered. Your arguments do not disuade me and I know I cannot convince you. We are looking at two totally different pictures. To me this is all about qualifying for WYCC. You argue it is about social equality and political change. We will have to agree to disagree. Not only on the changes to eligibility but also on the value of the opinions of the people actually doing the events, versus those watching from the sidelines.

    Ken Jensen
    Ken,
    I know Patrick, and I know well what he is doing for chess, especially here, in Ontario. And for this I have huge deal of respect and appreciation.

    The problem is that you took phrase from my post out of context, and by doing it you missed the point completely. As I said, in my opinion (with which you, obviously, disagree): "This issue is all about CFC policy on how to treat "Permanent Resident" versus "Citizen"." Keeping this in mind, how Patrick's (or anyone's else) experience in organizing chess events is relevant?

    I agree with Mikhail - there is too much emotional talking around this issue. Motion is here, it will be discussed and voted by governors (both organizers and non-organizers ). At the end we'll see whose opinion has more support.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Excuse me?
    The 2011 Canadian Junior Championship was organized by Mississauga Chess Club!
    Bob G., please forgive Bob A.! How could he, really?
    He, probably, meant Toronto Junior. And before Annex Club jumps to claim their ownership on Toronto Junior 2011 , i have to say that I did it in 2010.

  9. #29

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    WOW - what a screw up!!

    But my point remains that Vlad has credentials!

    Bob A

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    That in a nutshell defines what is wrong with the CFC, in my opinion.

    Patrick has been given the job of managing the CFC Youth program because he lives and breathes youth chess and knows more about it than any other CFC governor period. The fact that others who have no participation in youth chess would presume to tell him how to run the program is why the CFC continues to score failing grades...
    Ken,

    Apparently, you're mixing different branches of power...
    Like the society in general, the CFC has different branches of power:
    legislative power that belongs to the CFC Governors - only Assembly of Governors could establish rules and decide what we need to do and why, and
    executive power that belongs to the CFC Executive - they decide how exactly we should do what the Assembly of Governors decided to do.

    The CFC Executive can't do whatever they want - they must follow CFC rules.
    If they see the necessity for rules change, they should submit a Motion and seek Governors' approval.

    This is exactly what I'm doing now - based on my experience as the CFC Youth Coordinator.

    Let me remind you some facts for the last 2 years when I was the CFC Youth Coordinator:

    1) CYCC:
    2009 - ~120 participants
    2010 - 167 participants
    2011 - 237 participants

    2) North American YCC:
    2009 - 4 Canadian players
    2010 - first time organized in Canada, ~200 Canadian players
    2011 - 20 Canadian players

    3) WYCC:
    2009 - 21 Canadian players
    2010 - 23 Canadian players
    2011 - 40 Canadian players

    4) Youth Chess Olympiad
    2010 - first time Canadian team participation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    ...
    The arguments have been made, the rules read and the consequences considered. Your arguments do not disuade me and I know I cannot convince you. We are looking at two totally different pictures...
    If the facts mentioned above mean for you "the CFC continues to score failing grades", indeed we are looking at two totally different pictures...
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

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