Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 104

Thread: Junior Chess and the " Residency " Restriction

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Port Moody, BC
    Posts
    591
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Canadian representatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post

    Hi Roger,

    I appreciate that you are not involved in Junior Chess or you would be aware that the purpose of the CYCC is to select representatives to the WYCC.

    Refer to the CFC Handbook, Section 10 Invitational Youth Championships
    Article 1001 Frequency

    "A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".

    ...and that should be the end of that.
    Until the CFC rules change, and the Fide rules change this is a dead horse. Can we please quit trying to make it run.
    According with the citizenship/ residency laws in this country any "permanent resident" (former "landed immigrant" designation) has almost the same number of rights as any citizen. Existing restrictions (minimum 12 months in the country) to be able to participate @ YCC and further CYCC are wrong and have been like that all along. The argument was against cases when strong "foreign" juniors would enter and play @ CYCC with the only purpose to reach WYCC and then move on to different pastures. A permanent resident goes thru a lengthy process to obtain such status and it is highly unlikely it won't settle in Canada forever. It is helpful to make a distinction between "foreign" and "permanent resident"!
    Valer Eugen Demian
    FIDE CM & Instructor, ICCF IM
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ches...593013634?mt=8

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    2,138
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default

    I would support a change in the wording so that a player may participate if they will be eligible to play in the WYCC for which that particular CYCC is qualifying for. I will not support in any way allowing players into the event who are ineligible for the WYCC.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Mallon View Post
    I would support a change in the wording so that a player may participate if they will be eligible to play in the WYCC for which that particular CYCC is qualifying for. I will not support in any way allowing players into the event who are ineligible for the WYCC.
    Christopher,

    Could you please understand that CYCC eligibility and WYCC eligibility are 2 different issues, and should be considered separately?

    Let me explain it by example:
    Canadian Under 18 Champion Loren Laceste in July was ineligible to represent Canada at WYCC.

    Are you arguing that we shouldn't allow him to compete at CYCC?
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    2,138
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron View Post
    Christopher,

    Could you please understand that CYCC eligibility and WYCC eligibility are 2 different issues, and should be considered separately?

    Let me explain it by example:
    Canadian Under 18 Champion Loren Laceste in July was ineligible to represent Canada at WYCC.

    Are you arguing that we shouldn't allow him to compete at CYCC?
    Michael, why don't you go back and actually read what I posted before you reply?
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  5. #15

    Default Who wants this change to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by roger patterson View Post
    Well, not withstanding the handbook, some people apparently disagree with you (see Michael Barron's post, plus presumably the people who drafted the motion).

    Thanks for the feedback Roger. Michael and Bob are the ones who produced the motion so obviously they do not agree with me, or the CFC handbook. I'm sure there is a parent out there wanting to get their kid into the CYCC without the residency requirement. Who else wants the go against the fide eligibility requirements?

    Of course the CYCC winners are declared the Canadian Champion, and the designation Champion is used to identify the official representative to the WYCC.

    But really, I don't care which it is and I agree that I, and people like me (which would include most of the governors and specifically the people who drafted this motion), should stay out of what is properly the concern of junior chess organizers / players. I ask only because I'm interested in what the consensus view of people is of the CYCC.

    I appreciate your sentiments. If this discussion were limited to Chief Organizers of the CYCC, or even organizers of just 6 Junior tournaments a year it would lilkely be over before it started.

    What does Patrick MacDonald think of this idea? Should we not have the recommendation of the Youth Coordinator before trying to implement fundamental changes to the CFC Youth Program?

    Maybe this is a symptom of a problem within the CFC? Why not let the people who are doing the job decide the best way to get it done?

    Ken Jensen

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Roger. Michael and Bob are the ones who produced the motion so obviously they do not agree with me, or the CFC handbook. I'm sure there is a parent out there wanting to get their kid into the CYCC without the residency requirement. Who else wants the go against the fide eligibility requirements?
    Ken,

    For the record:
    The entire 2011 CYCC Organizing Committee feels that this outdated requirement is an artificial barrier for chess development in Canada.

    Could you please understand that CYCC eligibility and WYCC eligibility are 2 different issues, and should be considered separately?

    Let me explain it by example:
    Canadian Under 18 Champion Loren Laceste in July was ineligible to represent Canada at WYCC.

    Are you arguing that we shouldn't allow him to compete at CYCC?
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    2,138
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Jensen View Post
    What does Patrick MacDonald think of this idea? Should we not have the recommendation of the Youth Coordinator before trying to implement fundamental changes to the CFC Youth Program?
    I haven't spoken with him recently, but in his pre-election "speech" at the AGM he was asked (by Michael Barron) whether or not he supported the 12-month residency requirement, and he said that he did. Following that, Patrick was (soundly) elected in favour of Michael.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Thornhill, Ontario
    Posts
    215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Mallon View Post
    I haven't spoken with him recently, but in his pre-election "speech" at the AGM he was asked (by Michael Barron) whether or not he supported the 12-month residency requirement, and he said that he did. Following that, Patrick was (soundly) elected in favour of Michael.
    Nice move, Christopher! Yes, the question was asked, and yes, Patrick said at that moment that he does not see reason for the change. But have it lead to discussion? - No. Have sides presented arguments to convince each other? - No. So, it would be unreasonable to make conclusion about Patrick's opinion based on what happened at AGM, as well as to suggest that his election was direct result of it.

    With all my respect to Patrick, I don't see how his opinion has more weight than opinion of any other governor here. Also, I can not agree with Roger that this issue should be left on organizers' discretion. This issue is all about CFC policy on how to treat "Permanent Resident" versus "Citizen". In my opinion, current treatment is wrong. "Permanent Resident" and "Citizen" are equal in this respect, and all the questions about FIDE eligibility are not relevant. If CYCC winner can not represent Canada internationally, he/she won't go - is that simple.

  9. #19

    Default Primary Purpose : Canadian Champion

    Hi Ken:

    Michael B. and I are now going to amend s. 1001 to read:

    “ 1001. Frequency:
    A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions".

    That should be clear.

    Bob A

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    2,138
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Birarov View Post
    Nice move, Christopher! Yes, the question was asked, and yes, Patrick said at that moment that he does not see reason for the change. But have it lead to discussion? - No. Have sides presented arguments to convince each other? - No. So, it would be unreasonable to make conclusion about Patrick's opinion based on what happened at AGM, as well as to suggest that his election was direct result of it.
    The question was asked as to what his opinion was since he hasn't participated here. I provided the most recent opinion he's given of which I am aware. Everything I said was entirely factual, and I did not in any way try to say that that was still his opinion.

    With all my respect to Patrick, I don't see how his opinion has more weight than opinion of any other governor here. Also, I can not agree with Roger that this issue should be left on organizers' discretion. This issue is all about CFC policy on how to treat "Permanent Resident" versus "Citizen". In my opinion, current treatment is wrong. "Permanent Resident" and "Citizen" are equal in this respect, and all the questions about FIDE eligibility are not relevant. If CYCC winner can not represent Canada internationally, he/she won't go - is that simple.
    The Governors elect someone they trust to oversee the Youth program. This person will have far more interaction, and in the current case experience, in Youth chess than the vast majority of Governors. Therefore I would definitely say that his opinion should be considered strongly.

    You can play up the "Canadian Champions" thing all you want, but the simple fact remains that the #1 purpose of the CYCC is to qualify kids to the WYCC, and/or to raise money to help those kids go. Someone who is ineligible to win the main prize can upset the pairings for the rest, as has been pointed out elsewhere.

    I've actually had this happen in my favour ... 2003 Brantford "B" Division championships. A player who was a near-master at the time had missed the qualifier and so could not play in the "A" division. So he was allowed into the "B" division but not allowed to actually "win" the title. So he didn't really care about the games he did play (vs 1600 and lower players), and against me he played an out-of-move-order Muzio gambit that really backfired. That win against a player who didn't really care because he had nothing to win or lose gave me the title by a half point. Had he cared enough to play a sound opening he would likely have crushed me (600 point rating difference and I was just coming off a 5-year chess retirement) and someone else would have won.
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •