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Thread: Concerning extra players representing CANADA at 2011 WYCC in Brazil

  1. #1
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    Default Concerning extra players representing CANADA at 2011 WYCC in Brazil

    There is a thread of this title ongoing on Chesstalk
    ... for those who don't always visit there, here is a link that might work:

    http://www.chesstalk.info/forum/showthread.php?t=5610

    It looks like the discussion is taking place over there...

  2. #2

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    Shh, Kerry! I'm sure the executive don't want it discussed here. They have even bothered to brief the Governors on the issue.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Craft View Post
    Shh, Kerry! I'm sure the executive don't want it discussed here. They have even bothered to brief the Governors on the issue.
    LOL

    well, I am sure there is more to this story than meets the eye, but whether it all finds the light of day, I am not sure (not sure how to tell if that happens either). It seems in general that the "rules" are sometimes/often bent or manipulated - hence the reason why people read the handbook word by word... it is not necessarily easy to word a specific handbook section to cover all eventualities, but surely in this case I personally don't see a valid reason why exclusion should be the default behaviour.

    One potential worry might be this: allowing 'anyone' to go to the WYCC - although permissible from FIDE's perspective - might result in the erosion of the "importance or prestige or necessity" for the CYCC process and making it irrelevant... I can see that possibility.

  4. #4

    Default Core Value of Current Rule

    Hi Kerry:

    That does seem to be the current CFC position.

    It appears that maintaining the highest standard for the CYCC ( everyone should play in it ) trumps even Canada sending its best team to the WYCC ( some top juniors will not be allowed on the team even as " extras " if they failed to play in the CYCC ).

    This issue is not yet even being debated on the Governors' Board. Maybe someone will be concerned enough about the validity of the current rule, to seek to have it re-visited.

    Bob A

  5. #5

    Default Deja Vu?

    Perhaps the executive team at the CFC needs to take some lessons from the AICF on how to eat crow.

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5557

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    ... It appears that maintaining the highest standard for the CYCC ( everyone should play in it ) trumps even Canada sending its best team to the WYCC ( some top juniors will not be allowed on the team even as " extras " if they failed to play in the CYCC ). ...
    This statement seems self-contradictory. Also, since when has the CFC been "maintaining the highest standard for the CYCC?" Over the last decade the CYCC seemed to be an almost constant source of controversy - not usually one of the hallmarks of the highest standard. If the CFC is suddenly going to start holding itself to the highest standard, shouldn't there at least be a public warning ....er, announcement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
    ... This issue is not yet even being debated on the Governors' Board. Maybe someone will be concerned enough about the validity of the current rule, to seek to have it re-visited. ...
    Hopefully that someone would be you, Bob.

    These three children are reportedly (see Mike Egorov's posts on the other board) among the very best in Canada in their respective age groups. How can it be fair to refuse them an opportunity to play at the WYCC?

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    If all the facts that I've heard are true, then I'm with the Exec on this one.

    That being said... the CYCC rule changes are so frequent, often long-winded, etc etc that I think sometimes not everyone really pays attention (meaning Governors)... they just see "Oh the Youth Coordinator is making this motion, it must be good."

    And yay, apparently three more motions in the upcoming meeting (albeit not moved by the Youth Coordinator, and in fact one is completely opposed by Patrick unless he's changed his mind in the last two months).
    Christopher Mallon
    FIDE Arbiter

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Liles View Post
    LOL

    well, I am sure there is more to this story than meets the eye, but whether it all finds the light of day, I am not sure (not sure how to tell if that happens either). It seems in general that the "rules" are sometimes/often bent or manipulated - hence the reason why people read the handbook word by word... it is not necessarily easy to word a specific handbook section to cover all eventualities, but surely in this case I personally don't see a valid reason why exclusion should be the default behaviour.

    One potential worry might be this: allowing 'anyone' to go to the WYCC - although permissible from FIDE's perspective - might result in the erosion of the "importance or prestige or necessity" for the CYCC process and making it irrelevant... I can see that possibility.
    Hi Kerry,

    You're right - there is more to this story than meets the eye...

    I just want to mention some facts, which probably aren't known to the public yet:

    1. The new motion was made by Vlad Birarov and Valer Demian on December 1, 2010. At that time the dates of PanAm were not known yet. The Motion passed in January 2011.

    2. The main reason for the new motion was to allow more Canadian players to participate at WYCC (not only first 3 finishers).

    3. Victor Itkine was drafting this motion, and all the discussion can be found on the CFC Youth Committee's Private Forum. At the first draft there was no limitations at all, but most of the Youth Committee's members decided to put participation at CYCC as the major condition to be eligible to go to WYCC. Only extraordinary circumstances were decided to be an excuse for the top 3 rated players in each category to skip CYCC and still play at WYCC under condition that the application to CFC should be presented by them prior to CYCC (sub-paragraph (e)).

    4. The discussion of this motion last on the CFC Youth Committee's Private Forum for about 2 months. There were 7 drafts prepared by Victor Itkine until all the members agreed, and then Vlad Birarov made the motion while Valer Demian seconded it.

    5. Daxin Jin as the Youth Committee's member participated in this discussion and has offered some corrections during the discussion.

    6. Finally, Daxin Jin as the CFC Governor has voted in favour of this motion on January Governor's Meeting.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  8. #8

    Default

    I've been apprised of more of the facts as well and I don't side with the executive. There is a provision under the new regulations where this request could have been granted. It should have been. it appears to me that the Executive is allowing personal and personality decisions to blind them in making this decision.

  9. #9
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    There were quite a few children interesteed in taking part in the Pan-Am's in Columbia (!). The original viewpoint was not to allow any to take part in this event, and have everyone concentrate on qualifying for the WYCC via the CYCC. Yes, this was protectionist toward the CYCC, as the players wanting to go were some of the top in their respective age groups.

    At some point in time it was decided, reluctantly, that those who absolutely wanted to would be allowed to go with the knowledge that there would be no WYCC. Several who had strongly considered going decided not to go and play in the CYCC and subsequently the WYCC.

    We are now in the situation where one child (parent) now has had a change of heart, depite the fact that we have in writing all of the reasons they weren't interested in playing in the WYCC earlier this year. Ignorance can't be claimed as the mother of this child was a Governor at the time and voted in favour of the new CFC rules.

    I think we would now prefer to tell those other children that are not playing in the WYCC, that we are holding them to their promises, and to those children who passed on the Pan-Am's that yes we are holding on to our decision that you wouldn't have been able to play in both the Pan-Ams and WYCC this year.

  10. #10

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    The protectionist decision, and the decision to not allow those who wanted to attend the Pan Am the opportunity to attend the WYCC is abhorent and morally bankrupt in my opinion. The whole situation appears to have been coercive based on what has been written. I do wonder what a judge might think of this situation. I'm also interested in how judge would view all of these postings which try to explain/justify the situation. People really should avail themselves of their legal rights more often. National sporting federations are not above the law.

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