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Thread: Candidate for CFC President

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim View Post
    I thought it was inherent in Michael's model that provincial associations would essentially disappear.
    That is false, though you aren't the first to read it that way. How the provincial associations fit into the formula is something I would task the committee I proposed with determining.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim View Post
    Michael: Thanks for such a detailed platform. I noticed that our largest discretionary budget item (the newsletter) was not mentioned by you.

    What side of the fence are you on ?
    The newsletter is certainly an item I wish to revisit, though I am not wielding an ax at the moment.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger patterson View Post
    AFAIK the CFC affiliate program is still in place - so I wonder why your club is not already an affiliate.

    I was reading Michael's proposal as being that clubs are the exclusive route into the CFC, not an alternate route. He seems to make that fairly clear. e.g.



    And he is not thinking of this being a price break as in the existing (?) CFC affiliate program. In my region, the people who go to clubs (usually not CFC members) and the people who play in tournaments (often CFC members but not always) are largely two different sets of people. While I have no particular issue with providing incentives for clubs, I can't see making it an exclusive arrangement as being helpful.
    Yes, my bent is to make clubs an exclusive route, but read my reply to your previous post. My goal isn't to bar participation and I am sure those not formally part of a club can be accommodated by other clubs. I think we must have some common ground here, no?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael von Keitz View Post
    Yes, my bent is to make clubs an exclusive route, but read my reply to your previous post. My goal isn't to bar participation and I am sure those not formally part of a club can be accommodated by other clubs. I think we must have some common ground here, no?
    I don't think so. You haven't made a case for strong benefits and there is a fundamental mismatch between your model and how things are actually happening on the ground. There are some clubs that would fit into your model (the RA Club in Ottawa comes to mind) but there are many more that do not.

    In Victoria for example, the main club is the Victoria Chess Club, which as I previously said typically has ~18 people showing up (not the same ones each week) with typically 1-2 CFC members out of that. The club members have no interest in the CFC. It is not going to happen that this club becomes a CFC affiliate.

    Tournaments in the area are not organized by the Victoria Chess Club but by a group of 3 individuals (aka Victoria Chess). So the connection in your model between clubs and organizing tournaments is a completely artificial one here in Victoria (and largely too elsewhere in BC).

    So, if I want to join or organize in your model, I either need to create a virtual club of a dozen people who pool their fees but otherwise have no contact with each other or become a pseudo member of some club I have no connection with. What's the point? Where is the value added? If it is the claim that clubs validate Organizers/TDs how do they do that with their pseudo members?


    What use is a club-affiliate model in the first place? Well, in my experience, it proves a useful tool for the individual player to seek out clubs. When I was in Germany, if I wanted to find a club, I simply went on the German Federation's website and searched for clubs in the area. This search provided membership lists, along with player ratings (both FIDE and DWZ).
    The CFC (and BCCF) already provide this service. They don't provide membership lists it's true but if you go to a typical club website, you can usually get an idea of strength etc.

    No, I don't want the Roger Patterson that just floated in on a log from Siberia to decide that he's going to run a CFC-rated tournament in Victoria tomorrow. At the very least, I first want a group of 10 people in the area saying that they think he is competent to run an event.
    I hate organizing. If someone came in off a floating log and wanted to run a tournament in Victoria I would say yes, sight unseen. Wouldn't give him the GPO or the Keres probably but.... And if 10 people show up at this person off the floating log's tournament, that is the vote of confidence that you need. If they show up for his second tournament, then you are certain!

    In my experience, people become organizers and/or TDs not because a group of 10 or more people soberly decided that "why yes you could be TD material" but because someone twisted your arm, dragged you into a padded room with whips and chains in it, and sat on your chest until you cried uncle.

  5. #25

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    Well said, Roger. In Windsor there is also a disconnect between the chess club and the tournament player: the regulars at Riverside Library chess club have zero interest in tournament play, I doubt that one of them could name the current Canadian Champion, or even care that there IS a Canadian championship.

    The tournament players, and we have several, have little interest in the chess club, though they might drop in from time to time.

    Likewise, if someone wants to organise a tournament, I help in any way I can, lending equipment, hosting an ad, providing email contacts, etc. I organised my first tournament in 1961 at my high school, and I'm ready to retire. I have been agressively trying for at least 10 years to get someone to organise, with limited success.

    I'll start checking the river every day for logs with TDs. Why didn't I think of that before.

  6. #26

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    There are some clubs that would fit into your model (the RA Club in Ottawa comes to mind).
    That's all the common ground I need for the time being. As I said, I wish to run a pilot with 3-5 clubs to collect empirical data. Maybe what comes of it is a two-tiered system, though I would much prefer something homogenized. Although I have not laid out a fee structure, you may have deduced that on a per person basis, I would like to see fees reduced. Through the club model, some administrative tasks are simplified, and that should translate to some savings being passed on to the customer.

    The CFC (and BCCF) already provide this service.
    Not true. In the age of instant gratification, if I don't have the information I'm looking for in 5 seconds, I'm liable to move on. What the CFC and BCCF offer are club listings (some outdated on the part of the CFC, if not the BCCF as well). To determine the strength of the club and approximate membership numbers, I need to invest precious additional time (per club). Why wouldn't I spend that time playing blitz on the Internet as opposed to trying to figure out whether the Okanagan Apple Throwers Club has more value-added than the Victoria Chess Club? What the DSB offers is an ability to search cities for club listings, where I can instantly see the membership lists, which include ratings and (something that slipped my mind previously) the number of rated games played on the domestic rating scale. So, there's another dimension - how active your club is from a "rated play" perspective. Maybe this is irrelevant information as far as the Victoria Chess Club is concerned, but I think the average Internet-bred player would want access to that information before considering joining a live club and he/she is not going to invest the time to seek it out.

    I hate organizing. If someone came in off a floating log and wanted to run a tournament in Victoria I would say yes, sight unseen. Wouldn't give him the GPO or the Keres probably but.... And if 10 people show up at this person off the floating log's tournament, that is the vote of confidence that you need. If they show up for his second tournament, then you are certain!

    In my experience, people become organizers and/or TDs not because a group of 10 or more people soberly decided that "why yes you could be TD material" but because someone twisted your arm, dragged you into a padded room with whips and chains in it, and sat on your chest until you cried uncle.
    Yes, I said people, but I meant (verifiable) members. This man on the log can hold a CFC-rated event with one CFC member and hundreds of non-existent friends and relatives. In the past, some people have managed to inflate their ratings this way. As a means of quality control, I think the vetting process, though not flawless, is superior.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coleman View Post
    Well said, Roger. In Windsor there is also a disconnect between the chess club and the tournament player: the regulars at Riverside Library chess club have zero interest in tournament play, I doubt that one of them could name the current Canadian Champion, or even care that there IS a Canadian championship.

    The tournament players, and we have several, have little interest in the chess club, though they might drop in from time to time.

    Likewise, if someone wants to organise a tournament, I help in any way I can, lending equipment, hosting an ad, providing email contacts, etc. I organised my first tournament in 1961 at my high school, and I'm ready to retire. I have been agressively trying for at least 10 years to get someone to organise, with limited success.

    I'll start checking the river every day for logs with TDs. Why didn't I think of that before.
    actually, for some reason I was thinking of you when I wrote it. I know you have complained about the difficulty of trying to move your club activity to the next level before.

    As to retirement, maybe you could do what Doug Burgess did (Ottawa RA Club). Come in one day and say you quit. 100% cold turkey. [one hesitates to ask the reasons why - never did find out]. The club will move on one way or the other. Might be the only way to get people to step up to the plate.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger patterson View Post
    actually, for some reason I was thinking of you when I wrote it. I know you have complained about the difficulty of trying to move your club activity to the next level before.

    As to retirement, maybe you could do what Doug Burgess did (Ottawa RA Club). Come in one day and say you quit. 100% cold turkey. [one hesitates to ask the reasons why - never did find out]. The club will move on one way or the other. Might be the only way to get people to step up to the plate.
    I don't do much with the chess club, which has a life of it's own, in a zombie sort of way. I haven't organised a CFC weekend event in years, though there is some interest. I was thinking more of the children's events, I hate to see "my" big annual schools tournament die. I've been cutting back, in 2010 there were only 1400 players from 80 schools, down 20% from the high.

    Nice to know someone is thinking of me!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coleman View Post
    I don't do much with the chess club, which has a life of it's own, in a zombie sort of way. I haven't organised a CFC weekend event in years, though there is some interest. I was thinking more of the children's events, I hate to see "my" big annual schools tournament die. I've been cutting back, in 2010 there were only 1400 players from 80 schools, down 20% from the high.

    Nice to know someone is thinking of me!
    You have organized a number of CFC rated one day events.

    The 1400 players is down only because you chose to cut back to two days instead of three to accomodate the stragglers.

    This proposal is a bit vexing to me as a fairly new CFC governor and perhaps the last recorded most active CFC player for the past 18 months (if the first glimpse of the new website is going to be its final format). Am I going to be summarily drummed out of the CFC for the sin of not belonging to a chess club? Well I do visit the Riverside Library Chess Club from time to time but there is no formal membership aside from signing the attendance record. There are also no fees for attending that chess club which seems to be primarily focused on playing blitz which is not my preferred form of chess.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Drkulec View Post
    You have organized a number of CFC rated one day events.

    The 1400 players is down only because you chose to cut back to two days instead of three to accomodate the stragglers.

    This proposal is a bit vexing to me as a fairly new CFC governor and perhaps the last recorded most active CFC player for the past 18 months (if the first glimpse of the new website is going to be its final format). Am I going to be summarily drummed out of the CFC for the sin of not belonging to a chess club? Well I do visit the Riverside Library Chess Club from time to time but there is no formal membership aside from signing the attendance record. There are also no fees for attending that chess club which seems to be primarily focused on playing blitz which is not my preferred form of chess.
    Yes, Vlad, my priority is ensuring that someone else in Canada becomes the most active player for the year.

    Seriously though, I want to be able to run this pilot project and see where that takes us. Roger and John have made some good points, but I don't see what's preventing us from testing things out on a few willing subjects and going from there. As for my harping on about the DSB's website, just for a sample of what I'm talking about: http://schachbund.de/dwz/db/verein.html?zps=51025. That information is easy to categorize and disseminate, provided clubs are willing to submit their membership lists. I really believe that having that information available in one place, at the click of a button, has value-added.

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