21. 2011 Provincial YCC Qualifiers to the 2011 CYCC

[Stuart Brammall]

This is such a wrong conclusion, I don't even know where to begin writing against it. Can't you see CMA is a competitor for the most important segment of the market: kids and juniors = the base of the chess pyramid?

CFC should understand this aspect, decide to trust those who agree and support their efforts to regain the market share! It is nonsense to ask me to support a group compared with I do a much better job! I should be crazy to do so. Give me and others like me the equivalent support and we'll talk again from a different position in a few years...

How can they be a competitor? There is no market share here-- only promoting chess, which both the CFC and CMA do.
There is an obvious difference between promoting chess in Canada and promoting the CFC in Canada... we should make sure we're doing the right one.

Also you should know that the "thumbs down" icon you have used repeatedly in incredibly poor taste... if you were to gesture thumbs down repeatedly in person at an AGM, I would leave, if the chair did not throw out.

[Fred McKim]

It's difficult to look at all of the different aspects of this situation with any degree of neutrality.

CMA just celebrated their 25th anniversary last year. I'm not sure how many of the current Governors were involved before then.

However, our organization has gone from 3 to 1 (effectively) employee and our revenue streams have dropped, I would say proportionately.

This is not all due to CMA, but I've been involved in 2 of the smallest provinces and vibrant junior and cadet programs we formerly had at the CFC level, have pretty well vanished. Junior membership is way down, but at the same time we have so many more youthful players in tournaments (CMA).

What I'd like to see is that CMA would encourage it's players from grade 7 and on playing in CFC events. Unfortunately, we've never had any bargaining chips in this game.

While CMA is a non-profit, to a lot of people it has the appearance of a business. Profit and loss statements aren't readily available, to the best of my knowledge.

I'm still looking for a win-win proposition that our two organizations can someday pull off.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Fred:

I agree a win-win proposal is needed to break the current stalemate.

As you know, I quietly, as a governor only, approached Larry about the Atlantic provinces YCC's that were hoped for. You had given me the names of the key CMA organizers in each of the four provinces.

I put 2 possible scenarios to him to consider re possible negotiations:

1. the 4 Atlantic Provinces Affiliates could each enter into a contract with CMA to run their 2011 YCC's in each of the four provinces.
2. Larry could give his blessing to , and encourage, his CMA Altlantic organizers, to take on themselves ( not as CMA ) organizing the YCC's in each of their Atlantic home provinces, for the Provincial Affiliate and the CFC.

Larry's concern was that it could not just be a benefit to CFC - it had to be a win-win situation, where CMA got some benefit out of it.

I sent him what I thought were the benefits for each organization. Larry didn't thereafter respond ( I guess the CMA benefits were insufficient ), and I dropped it.

So there may be some willingness in CMA to cooperate, but it must benefit substantially both organizations.

As you say, we need to put our collective heads together to come up with a plan that serves the divergent interests of both organizations, and promotes youth chess in Canada.

Bob

[Ken Craft]

Fred,
I would like to think that NB had good people promoting junior chess in the 70s and 80s. Local YMCA programmes and regular junior high school and high school tournaments provided a feeder system.

Bob: Had you spoken with provincial affiliates before making these suggestions to Larry?

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Ken:

My contact with Larry was personal only, since he and I do get along fairly well.

I was acting privately as an ordinary governor, and was only trying to develop possible negotiating scenarios. I was not speaking on behalf of the Provincial Affiliates, and I made it clear to Larry that this was the case, and if he wanted to go the CMA subcontract route, then we would have to contact the Provincial Affiliates to see if the idea flew with them at all.

My goal was to ascertain whether Larry was at all open to cooperating with CFC in any way re the Atlantic provinces' YCC's, where there seemed to be no activity re YCC's at that time. I was not negotiating anything on behalf of anyone - just trying to cooperatively brainstorm with Larry. It started out with some positive indications, but then dried up, so I abandoned it.

It was my intention, if Larry indicated anything positive and possible, that I would then approach Michael, and volunteer to assist re the Atlantic Provinces YCC's if he wished it.

Bob

[Fred McKim]

Fred,
I would like to think that NB had good people promoting junior chess in the 70s and 80s. Local YMCA programmes and regular junior high school and high school tournaments provided a feeder system.

Bob: Had you spoken with provincial affiliates before making these suggestions to Larry?

Ken: Provincial affiliates in Atlantic Canada are effectively inactive and really aren't the ones running events for players under 18.

Dropping membership rates over the past years have lowered the number of people willing to take on this level of involvement.

[Bob Armstrong]

The theory of the YCC Qualification system was, I think, that new juniors could be brought into the CFC system in the Atlantic provinces, with the YCC's, and so junior membership would finally start to rise there.

Bob

[Ken Craft]

Bad theory, as I have said before.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Ken:

Don't know that the theory is bad, but the system certainly is far from taking off at this point in the Atlantic Provinces. There may be other explanations for the non-functioning of the idea, other than that the theory is bad.

Bob

[Fred McKim]

Bad theory, as I have said before.

I fully agree with Bob on this one. We must be in a position to introduce at least the better elementary players and all other juniors to regular tournament play.

Ken, I never thought your idea of cooperation meant having no CFC rated tournaments for juniors..........