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Thread: Is Canadian Chess Dying?

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valer Eugen Demian
    ... is similar with shopping at the Salvation Army and asking why there's no high class service (no disrespect intended to the Salvation Army).

    Let's see: some chess people do not even want to hear about chess being recognized as a sport here (even if it is in about 75% of countries in the World), do not want to pay a yearly membership to a national organization, ask time and time again what is provided to them when in return they do not consider they have to do anything, etc, etc.
    Conclusion: let's kick CFC over and over again (easy target, right?) until they will disappear in the oblivion. I am sure then everyone will satisfy their chess craving playing in those "great" internet chess sites, while watching the World outside play chess as it should be played!

    How about that?
    - Chess is not a sport, it is a game... sports involve physical activities.

    - I have been a CFC member since I started playing the game

    - I am concerned that what the CFC is doing will reduce the amount of people who play rated chess in Canada, you can call that complaining all you want, what I am doing is asking the governors to see what affect this proposal will have.

    - the VAST majority of chess players in Canada play solely on internet sites, to ignore this is to put your head in the sand and pretend that this isn't how it is ...

    - the CFC's PRIME function should be to promote chess in Canada, If they concentrated on getting MORE people to play chess then perhaps they wouldn't be in the financial problems they are in now. Until the CFC concentrates on the AVERAGE player and show them the benefits of supporting the CFC then they will continue to have revenue problems.
    You can't get more people to play rated chess when you put barriers infront of them.

    - I don't want the CFC to disappear, but if it continues to dissuade casual chess players from playing in tournaments then perhaps the CFC deserves to go under. Maybe it will be replaced with an organization that remembers what its job is to promote chess in Canada.

  2. #12
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Lohner
    - Chess is not a sport, it is a game... sports involve physical activities.

    - I have been a CFC member since I started playing the game

    - I am concerned that what the CFC is doing will reduce the amount of people who play rated chess in Canada, you can call that complaining all you want, what I am doing is asking the governors to see what affect this proposal will have.

    - the VAST majority of chess players in Canada play solely on internet sites, to ignore this is to put your head in the sand and pretend that this isn't how it is ...

    - the CFC's PRIME function should be to promote chess in Canada, If they concentrated on getting MORE people to play chess then perhaps they wouldn't be in the financial problems they are in now. Until the CFC concentrates on the AVERAGE player and show them the benefits of supporting the CFC then they will continue to have revenue problems.
    You can't get more people to play rated chess when you put barriers infront of them.

    - I don't want the CFC to disappear, but if it continues to dissuade casual chess players from playing in tournaments then perhaps the CFC deserves to go under. Maybe it will be replaced with an organization that remembers what its job is to promote chess in Canada.
    "Chess is not s sport..." Stereotypical "ostryich" type response. Not every sport needs a stick and to allow bodychecks and fights ("not that there is anything wrong with that" Jerry Seinfeld)...

    Good for you for being a CFC member since that time!

    There are plenty of juniors coming up you might not know about (reduce number of players?!...). Want to learn more for a better understanding and a more real evaluation of the Canadian chess scene?

    There are vast majorities of players playing on the internet in a lot of other countries and they still have a national federation.

    You keep on talking about the average player; come and see them! They might not be your age though...
    Last edited by Valer Eugen Demian; 10-12-2008 at 12:37 AM.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valer Eugen Demian
    "
    There are plenty of juniors coming up you might not know about (reduce number of players?!...). Want to learn more for a better understanding and a more real evaluation of the Canadian chess scene?

    There are vast majorities of players playing on the internet in a lot of other countries and they still have a national federation.

    You keep on talking about the average player; come and see them! They might not be your age though...
    Definition : Average player == someone who plays chess on a casual basis

    I have played many of the top juniors, I am well aware of how many strong juniors there are. What I am concerned about is your average adult club player. Why push these people away from rated chess?? I have spoken to many of these people and not ONE said that they though it was worth buying a membership for one tournament a year. Since I have started playing tournament chess in 2006 I have seen a steady decline in participation in adult chess tournaments. The first Keres open I played in (2007) one of the key notes that was brought up was the decline in participation at the BCCF annual meeting. To ignore this is to ignore reality. I am happy that BC has a strong junior component, and you should be proud that you have had a major affect on this, but what I am stating is how the adult chess scene will be effected under these proposals.

    When comparing countries you need to compare countries on a simular economic and cultural basis. You can't compare eastern europe and Canada as Eastern Europe has a rich chess cultural that was state sponsered under communism. A better comparison would be the USCF. The USCF is having many of the same problems as Canada is. Most people in the US and Canada can easily afford a computer so many of them have taken thier love of the game to online servers. this is just a fact and the CFC needs to accept this.
    The USCF is also close to bankrupcy.

  4. #14
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    Smile Average player

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Lohner
    ... When comparing countries you need to compare countries on a simular economic and cultural basis. You can't compare eastern europe and Canada as Eastern Europe has a rich chess cultural that was state sponsered under communism. A better comparison would be the USCF. The USCF is having many of the same problems as Canada is. Most people in the US and Canada can easily afford a computer so many of them have taken thier love of the game to online servers. this is just a fact and the CFC needs to accept this.
    The USCF is also close to bankrupcy.
    Communism has died in December 1989 the year of the Romanian televised revolution. There's quite a few years since that time and chess is still strong in Eastern Europe. Why can't it be here as well? Canada is miles away as potential from any of those countries. Why compare with USCF? Our juniors deserve it and the average player like you would benefit it too! I will leave you with this thought.

    Thanks for your conversation! The Canucks just won! :-)
    Last edited by Valer Eugen Demian; 10-12-2008 at 01:01 AM.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valer Eugen Demian
    Communism has died in December 1989 the year of the Romanian televised revolution. There's quite a few years since that time and chess is still strong in Eastern Europe. Why can't it be here as well? Canada is miles away as potential from any of those countries. Why compare with USCF? Our juniors deserve it and the average player like you would benefit it too! I will leave you with this thought.

    Thanks for your conversation! The Canucks just won! :-)
    rated OTB chess is doing well because of 50+ years of state sponsorship. That sort of influence will not just disappear overnight. I am not saying that it can't be that way here, what I am saying is that the reality of how chess is being played in North America is FAR different than in Eastern Europe.

    As I have stated before, there are far more Canadians playing on ONE CC server (www.chessworld.net) based in the UK than all of the CFC. Whenever I play someone on line from Canada I check to see if they are a CFC member, and I have yet to come across one opponent that is. I am currently playing someone from Montreal and I asked him if he played in the Canadian open. He had no idea that it was held in Montreal. These types of players are who I call 'average' or Casual chess players. These are the sort of people that the CFC should target. I have yet to check the many other servers, such as ICC, FICS, Redhotpawn etc... but I am sure that they have quite a large Canadian population as well. As I stated earlier, chess in Canada is doing just fine, it is the CFC that is dying.

    If the CFC wants these types of players we must encourage them to try tournament play. Putting barriers in front of them is not going to attract these players to rated OTB chess. I want to Increase the number of players playing in OTB rated chess, not decrease it. Bob Armstrong has stated publicly that losing 2/3 of these casual players is acceptable losses. I do not agree and that is why I am so strongly opposed to this proposal. I want to Increase the number of chess players not decrease it ... and that is what will happen under this proposal. I believe that the CFC has lost its prime focus, which is to promote chess in Canada.

  6. #16
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Lohner
    rated OTB chess is doing well because of 50+ years of state sponsorship. That sort of influence will not just disappear overnight. I am not saying that it can't be that way here, what I am saying is that the reality of how chess is being played in North America is FAR different than in Eastern Europe...
    Well, I think you make assumptions instead of knowing facts. The old chess clubs were getting some state sponsorship, but nowhere near as much as you assume. Most of them were sponsored by big enterprises and the government allowed that even if it was not clear based on what.

    Today quite a few of those old club plus many new ones are simply sponsored by big corporations such as GE, Labbat to give you just a couple of names for a better understanding. Long gone is the 50+ state sponsorship you think it still is in effect one way or another. The main difference is chess being regarded as it is: a sport! The business community holds it in high regard and supports it. I will let you guess the main reason why things are not the same here...

    P.S. The other assumption you make is that we do not participate in internet chess and we do not know about those average players you talk about. We do, believe me! However it is very strange how a Canadian internet chess adict like your partner from Montreal knows how to find several chess sites on the internet, but not the ones announcing the Canadian Open. There is a point where "it takes 2 to tango", or in other words those average players should be open to listen to a pledge about CFC!

  7. #17

    Default Chess Clubs

    The first step is getting people away from their on-line chess fix isn't a CFC rated tournament, its a club. After all, most of the on-line activity is around blitz. The leap from 5-minute on-line to 5-6 games over a weekend is huge. The leap from 5minute on-line to 5-minute OTB is small.

    In the glory days of the Toronto Chess Club we'd have 50-60 people out every Saturday for the blitz tournament, sometimes even more. Only about 25% played in CFC rated tournaments. The same held true for the weekday tournaments as well.

  8. #18

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    Hi Jason -

    Could you name your "Montreal player" - it may be someone I know. They might have recognized it as the "Quebec Open" (which it was - partly).

    (if you prefer not to name them in public, you could send me email at hugh dot brodie at mcgill dot ca).

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Brodie
    Hi Jason -

    Could you name your "Montreal player" - it may be someone I know. They might have recognized it as the "Quebec Open" (which it was - partly).

    (if you prefer not to name them in public, you could send me email at hugh dot brodie at mcgill dot ca).
    sent you a message via this boards private messages.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lavin
    The first step is getting people away from their on-line chess fix isn't a CFC rated tournament, its a club. After all, most of the on-line activity is around blitz. The leap from 5-minute on-line to 5-6 games over a weekend is huge. The leap from 5minute on-line to 5-minute OTB is small.

    In the glory days of the Toronto Chess Club we'd have 50-60 people out every Saturday for the blitz tournament, sometimes even more. Only about 25% played in CFC rated tournaments. The same held true for the weekday tournaments as well.
    The server I play on is a Corr. Chess server. I tend to avoid blitz games as I feel they are detrimental to my 'chess growth'. CC is far closer to 'real' (OTB) chess than blitz . It would probably be a boon to the CFC is they rated blitz tournaments (as well as the active tournaments).

    Personally in my own case I only played a couple months on ICC and generally played against ChessMaster 10 (for about 1 year) before I tried tournament chess. I pretty much knew that I was going to lose most of my games but wanted to know how much I had learned in one year. From my result I didn't learn very much! I didn't discover a chess club in my town until 6 months after my first tournament (Langley Labourday open 2006). As I had stated earlier, the only reason I joined the CFC is because I liked the magazine. I was planning to use the 'tournament membership' to try OTB rated chess. If there wasn't that option, I would have never tried rated chess.

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