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Thread: YCC Qualifiers - Good Idea?

  1. #11

    Default CfC/CMA

    Hi Fred:

    Horrors !! You're not suggesting we open a new era of CMA/CFC cooperation??

    Bob

  2. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong
    Hi Fred:

    Horrors !! You're not suggesting we open a new era of CMA/CFC cooperation??

    Bob
    I consider this effort a long shot. CMA has had little interest in the CYCC cycle However, these are the people that organize the events for that age group.

  3. #13
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    Default

    Just an idea: during traditional Opens to have a special section just for the YCC (probably combined all age groups).

  4. #14

    Default Getting drunk with cold water

    Hello everyone,

    Planning ahead how many players will be at CYCC in advance is nice but will not materialize in real life.

    Based on my experience, there will not be more then 20-25 players from BC next year at CYCC. My guess is 10-15, many families who have boys are not going to CYCC when their son is in junior year. For the girls is different because the competition is not as big as in open section.

    It is not different for Chess Challenge national tournament, just check how many times BC team champion did not make the trip and stayed home to play in Keres. In some years was hard to get any players from some sections.

    When is coming to have great numbers at CYCC, you need to have it in Toronto or Ottawa, this way a large number of players from ON can take part and hope for visitors from other provinces.

    Just look at junior chess tournaments around the country, and do the math. I believe that in average is just 5-10% (if not less) from the juniors players who are making the decision to go to a tournament in a different place from where they live.

    Andrei

  5. #15

    Default Provincial YCC's - Opportunity for Expansion?

    SWOCL/Ont. CFC Governor Stuart Brammall, as part of the governor debate on the implementation of the YCC qualifier system for the 2011 Richmond Hill CYCC, produced the following chart on current CFC Junior Members across the country in provinces other than Ontario:


    ...................................U 8....U 10.....U 12.....U 14.....U 16.....U 18..Total
    Alberta...........................1.........7..... ....5.........7..........6.........5.....31
    B.C................................6.........9.... .....10.......10.........7.........6.....48
    Manitoba.........................0.........1...... ....1........1..........3.........2......8
    N.B................................0..........0... .......1........1..........1.........1......4
    Newfoundland Labrador......0..........0..........0........1.... ......1.........0.....2
    N.S................................0..........0... .......1........0..........0.........0......1
    P.E.I...............................0..........0.. ........0........3.........1..........0.....4
    Quebec...........................0..........2..... .....1........6.........6..........2.....17
    Saskatchewan..................0..........0..........0........2 .........0..........1......3
    .....................................7..........19 ........19.......31........25........17....118

    His point was that it will be very difficult for some provinces to qualify the top-rated 12 players in the province ( for 6 Open Sections + 6 Girls Sections ) + 36 players as the top 3 in a provincial YCC qualifier in each group. They simply don't have that many CFC juniors in these provinces in the various groups.

    This does point out a limitation in the new YCC qualifier system.

    But I think it also highlights the fact that the Provincial Affiliates need to promote their YCC's to more than just current CFC juniors. They must go to chess clubs that have juniors and to schools who have chess lessons, or lunch-time or after 4 chess classes/clubs, and other schools too, and youth organizations, to expand the base of CFC juniors in their provinces. We should remember that in some provinces there are juniors used to tournament chess from the CMA Chess Challenges, who may not yet be CFC junior members, and they form a potential pool of new CFC juniors.

    There is the enticement for these new juniors that :

    1. they might become a provincial champion for their age group;
    2. they might " qualify " for the national youth championship in 2011 in Richmond Hill;
    3. they will get a modest $ subsidy as a first prize ( at least ) towards expenses to the 2011 CYCC

    So I think the expansion of youth chess in the provinces through YCC's is a reasonable possibility, maybe even a golden opportunity, as a result of well-promoted YCC's, despite current low numbers.

    Am I right in this projection?

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; 11-29-2010 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #16

    Default Now is no point to have YCC qualifiers mandatory

    Hi Bob,

    One thing that Stuart data is not showing is the boys/girls number. I am sure that in many cases are no girls at all in the older section, in the best cases are 1 or maximum 2.

    In BC (highest number from this list) there are very few juniors who are playing just in CMA tournaments, that is because the only regular CMA tournaments are in Victoria, and the their numbers are very low.

    I believe that making YCC qualifier mandatory, will not change anything. First we need to increase many times the numbers of juniors players outside ON and after that we can think about this.

    Will be interesting to see the numbers of the 2010 CYCC participants who did not participate in their provincial YCC (my guess is close to zero) and also the numbers of provincial champions who did not go to CYYC, even they know all this:

    1. they are provincial champion for their age group;
    2. they " qualify " for the national youth championship;
    3. they can get a modest $ subsidy as a first prize ( at least ) towards expenses to the CYCC

    Whatever everyone propose for increasing the number of the players is great only just as an idea. In my mind the only thing is working is what Yuanling and her friends are doing in public libraries. If this activity will continue to grow(I hope it will) then we will see the results over the years. A discussion how to help Yuanling project, chess in schools, supporting junior chess clubs will solve this problem.

    Provincial Junior Coordinators are volunteers and is just one person in each province. I bet they are putting more hours in junior chess than any other CFC adult member. I would not ask anything more from them. The rest of us need to start doing something.

    How many of the adult players are considering getting some chess sets and going to volunteer to open a chess club in the local school?

    Andrei

  7. #17
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong
    SWOCL/Ont. CFC Governor Stuart Brammall, as part of the governor debate on the implementation of the YCC qualifier system for the 2011 Richmond Hill CYCC, produced the following chart on current CFC Junior Members across the country in provinces other than Ontario:


    ...................................U 8....U 10.....U 12.....U 14.....U 16.....U 18..Total
    Alberta...........................1.........7..... ....5.........7..........6.........5.....31
    B.C................................6.........9.... .....10.......10.........7.........6.....48
    Manitoba.........................0.........1...... ....1........1..........3.........2......8
    N.B................................0..........0... .......1........1..........1.........1......4
    Newfoundland Labrador......0..........0..........0........1.... ......1.........0.....2
    N.S................................0..........0... .......1........0..........0.........0......1
    P.E.I...............................0..........0.. ........0........3.........1..........0.....4
    Quebec...........................0..........2..... .....1........6.........6..........2.....17
    Saskatchewan..................0..........0..........0........2 .........0..........1......3
    .....................................7..........19 ........19.......31........25........17....118

    His point was that it will be very difficult for some provinces to qualify the top-rated 12 players in the province ( for 6 Open Sections + 6 Girls Sections ) + 36 players as the top 3 in a provincial YCC qualifier in each group. They simply don't have that many CFC juniors in these provinces in the various groups.

    This does point out a limitation in the new YCC qualifier system.

    But I think it also highlights the fact that the Provincial Affiliates need to promote their YCC's to more than just current CFC juniors. They must go to chess clubs that have juniors and to schools who have chess lessons, or lunch-time or after 4 chess classes/clubs, and other schools too, and youth organizations, to expand the base of CFC juniors in their provinces. We should remember that in some provinces there are juniors used to tournament chess from the CMA Chess Challenges, who may not yet be CFC junior members, and they form a potential pool of new CFC juniors.

    There is the enticement for these new juniors that :

    1. they might become a provincial champion for their age group;
    2. they might " qualify " for the national youth championship in 2011 in Richmond Hill;
    3. they will get a modest $ subsidy as a first prize ( at least ) towards expenses to the 2011 CYCC

    So I think the expansion of youth chess in the provinces through YCC's is a reasonable possibility, maybe even a golden opportunity, as a result of well-promoted YCC's, despite current low numbers.

    Am I right in this projection?

    Bob
    Bob: I organized Provincial Youth Chess events about 10 years ago for a couple of years.

    You are correct on number 1 and number 2. It will be a long time before we (PEI) could ever deliver on number 3.

    Considering that CMA events charge $10, it's a tough sell to charge any more than that. For the YCC model to work you probably want to have at least 30 or 40 players, all paying $50. Otherwise, there is no money for the winners to go anywhere.

  8. #18
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    Default why we need mandatory YCC qualifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei Botez
    Hi Bob,

    One thing that Stuart data is not showing is the boys/girls number. I am sure that in many cases are no girls at all in the older section, in the best cases are 1 or maximum 2.

    In BC (highest number from this list) there are very few juniors who are playing just in CMA tournaments, that is because the only regular CMA tournaments are in Victoria, and the their numbers are very low.

    I believe that making YCC qualifier mandatory, will not change anything. First we need to increase many times the numbers of juniors players outside ON and after that we can think about this.

    Will be interesting to see the numbers of the 2010 CYCC participants who did not participate in their provincial YCC (my guess is close to zero) and also the numbers of provincial champions who did not go to CYYC, even they know all this:

    1. they are provincial champion for their age group;
    2. they " qualify " for the national youth championship;
    3. they can get a modest $ subsidy as a first prize ( at least ) towards expenses to the CYCC

    Whatever everyone propose for increasing the number of the players is great only just as an idea. In my mind the only thing is working is what Yuanling and her friends are doing in public libraries. If this activity will continue to grow(I hope it will) then we will see the results over the years. A discussion how to help Yuanling project, chess in schools, supporting junior chess clubs will solve this problem.

    Provincial Junior Coordinators are volunteers and is just one person in each province. I bet they are putting more hours in junior chess than any other CFC adult member. I would not ask anything more from them. The rest of us need to start doing something.

    How many of the adult players are considering getting some chess sets and going to volunteer to open a chess club in the local school?

    Andrei
    Hi Andrei,

    It's the problem of egg and chicken.

    Do we have very few junior players because we have very few junior tournaments?
    Or we have very few junior tournaments because we have very few junior players?

    I agree with you - we need to start doing something.
    It can't be "the only thing", it should be many things for many people.

    I appreciate what Yuanling and her friends are doing in public libraries.
    I appreciate what Corinna Wan is doing with Ontario Girls' Chess Championship - just take a look at
    http://www.chesstalk.com/elo/pub/scr...is.php?no=6221
    I appreciate many hours that Provincial Junior Coordinators are putting in junior chess.
    And I would like to encourage them and many others local organizers to organize more junior tournaments in every province.

    What's why we need mandatory YCC qualifiers.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  9. #19
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim
    Bob: I organized Provincial Youth Chess events about 10 years ago for a couple of years.

    You are correct on number 1 and number 2. It will be a long time before we (PEI) could ever deliver on number 3.

    Considering that CMA events charge $10, it's a tough sell to charge any more than that. For the YCC model to work you probably want to have at least 30 or 40 players, all paying $50. Otherwise, there is no money for the winners to go anywhere.
    Fred:

    I would think, the long way starts from the first step.

    If you have 4 players in the Provincial Youth Chess Championship, and everyone pay $10 towards prize fund, the winner gets $40 towards expenses to the CYCC.

    Sure, it's not enough for trip from PEI to Richmond Hill, but better than nothing...
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Barron
    Fred:

    I would think, the long way starts from the first step.

    If you have 4 players in the Provincial Youth Chess Championship, and everyone pay $10 towards prize fund, the winner gets $40 towards expenses to the CYCC.

    Sure, it's not enough for trip from PEI to Richmond Hill, but better than nothing...
    Except the rules we have now say we need to charge $200... when we will have zero players.

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