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Thread: 2011 CYCC Competing Bids

  1. #1

    Default 2011 CYCC Competing Bids

    CFC has received 2 bids for the 2011 CYCC. Governor Fred McKim, on behalf of the Executive, is seeking input from CYCC parents on the two options being presented:

    1. CYCC being run concurrently with the 2011 Canadian Open, in Toronto.
    This would entail a 7 day CYCC, with one game per day. CYCC Players would be able to participate in the CO, as the games would be at different times, the CYCC in the morning ( I believe - haven't yet seen the bid ), and the CO in the evening ( likely 6:00 PM, which means the games will end late ).

    2. the traditional CYCC format of prior years, a week or so before the CO, over 4 days ( 2 games per day, except for the one day ), in Toronto ( or Richmond Hill, just above Toronto ). The CYCC players would have the option of playing in the CO the following week, if they so chose.

    Fred would like you to identify if you are a CYCC'er or parent of one, whether the CYCC'er would normally play in the CO or not, and which option you prefer.

    If anyone not CYCC has an opinion, the governors would also like to hear from you.

    The governors will shortly be voting on the conflicting bids, so please post your opinions soon.

    Bob

  2. Default Keep existing format

    I am a parent of a CYCC participant for the past number of years, Simon Gladstone. This year Simon played in the Canadian Open.
    Separate tournaments, one after the other, is the preferred option.
    They are two different types of tournaments for the youth and we should not have to make them "choose" which one, when both could be the answer.
    The intensity of the CYCC, I do not think, would go well at the same time,as the Canadian Open.
    As indicated elsewhere, if youth doesn't want to play in CO, only the CYCC, parents have to take twice as much vacation and added hotels, which is not always feasable.
    Gary Gladstone

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Armstrong
    CFC has received 2 bids for the 2011 CYCC. Governor Fred McKim, on behalf of the Executive, is seeking input from CYCC parents on the two options being presented:

    1. CYCC being run concurrently with the 2011 Canadian Open, in Toronto.
    This would entail a 7 day CYCC, with one game per day. CYCC Players would be able to participate in the CO, as the games would be at different times, the CYCC in the morning ( I believe - haven't yet seen the bid ), and the CO in the evening ( likely 6:00 PM, which means the games will end late ).

    2. the traditional CYCC format of prior years, a week or so before the CO, over 4 days ( 2 games per day, except for the one day ), in Toronto ( or Richmond Hill, just above Toronto ). The CYCC players would have the option of playing in the CO the following week, if they so chose.

    Fred would like you to identify if you are a CYCC'er or parent of one, whether the CYCC'er would normally play in the CO or not, and which option you prefer.

    If anyone not CYCC has an opinion, the governors would also like to hear from you.

    The governors will shortly be voting on the conflicting bids, so please post your opinions soon.

    Bob
    Bob,

    I realize that the purpose of this thread is to collect some input from CYCC'ers about CYCC 2011, but I'm afraid, taking into account current situation with the bids, your #2 is not entirely correct.
    Since combined bid (bid #1) is the only one for CO, it seems that in case bid #2 is approved, we might have the situation when no one "would have the option of playing in the CO the following week".

    The real problem is - the lack of organizers willing to organize Canadian Open.
    We're very fortunate to have such enthusiastic organizer as Ted Winick, who isn't afraid to try something new.

    I'm not sure, if a new format is better than old one or not, but we never know for sure, if we never try.
    It's all about choice.
    I personally prefer to play 1 game a day - it leaves more time for preparation and for rest, makes the event more serious, improves the quality of play.
    But I know a lot of players, especially young players, who are willing to play the whole day. They have such option too!

    Do you remember as Igor Ivanov played simultaneously in Canadian Open and Canadian Closed, and won them both?

    But the most important: We need to save Canadian Open!
    As a chess player and CFC member, I would be VERY disappointed, if we won't have Canadian Open 2011.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

  4. #4

    Default CYCC and CO

    One aspect that I see nobody mentioned is the period when CYCC takes place.

    If CYCC is not preceding CO why the dates are still in the middle of the week? For out of town parents is still the entire week that they need to take off. Also if is not preceding CO and the dates does not matter why not pick a long weekend?

    If you want to see something similar (that works) with the combined bid, just take a look at traditional US Open and Denker Tournament of High School Champions + Girls Junior + College Tournament of Champions

    The kids in Denker+Girls+College are playing 2 rounds a day: in the morning for their junior tournament in the afternoon the US Open.

    I am not taking sides of any of the 2 bids, my daughters (this year in U10 and U16) will travel to CYCC does not matters what bid will win. My oldest will play in both while me and my youngest will come back after CYCC. If CO and CYCC will be in the same time, is a possibility that all 3 of us will play in CO.

    Andrei

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    284

    Default

    OPEN LETTER TO ALL GOVERNORS


    Dear Governors,

    My name is listed in one of the bids, so I am not going to express my view of advantages and/or disadvantages of each bid.

    I just want to clarify statement of a question: “We need to save Canadian Open!” how it was formulated in some previous posts.

    Canadian Open (CO) is a great tournament, many chess players including kids love to play in it. But why is there a danger for 2011 CO? In 2009, CO took place in Edmonton one week before CYCC in Victoria, and many kids participated in both tournaments. In 2010 CO took place in Toronto one week after CYCC in Windsor, and again many kids participated in both tournaments.

    So, what is the difference if in 2011 CO will take place in Toronto one week after CYCC in Richmond Hill (which is, by the way, much closer to Toronto than Windsor)? It was working perfectly for many years, so why do we need for the next year to “re-invent the bicycle”? I am sure that many kids will participate in both tournaments just as usual.

    So, I think, there may be the compromise: CYCC may take place in Richmond Hill, and CO – in Toronto one week later. To make this work, Ted Winick may just revise his bid, and re-present it for CO only. I don’t see this as a problem for him, taking into account that six weeks ago he declared out loud that he has no interest in organizing CYCC. At that time Ted, an enthusiastic organizer, was asked to put two tournaments in one bid to save CYCC (there was no any other bids at that moment). We all appreciate Ted’s efforts to save CYCC.

    But now the situation has changed. CYCC does not need to be saved anymore because there is another bid.
    So, let’s just go back to the traditional schedule.

    Sincerely,

    Victor Itkine.

  6. #6

    Default

    I have now posted at Victor's request, his post here on the confidential Governors' Discussion Board, in the thread which is the debate before the governors vote on the competing CYCC bids starting Nov. 19.

    Bob

  7. #7

    Default 1 game/day CYCC

    1 game/day CYCC

    History

    Canadian Junior and Under-16 Championships were originally - and for many years - one round per day. The participants were a mixture of the best kids from each region of Canada, and the highest rated kids.When new age categories, as well as the Girls categories, were added, the Youth Championships grew larger. It's nearly impossible to get a free or low cost playing site for a week for a sizeable group. To pay the rent, the Championships became open - any kid could qualify simply by paying the entry fee. This meant that a large group of kids would attend. Thus, the organizers could afford a large playing hall for a few days. So, the event was shortened to about 4 days.

    Quality

    With only 4 days, 2 games/day were needed to determine a winner, and often playoffs were still needed, because of the large number of players in the Swiss format. Perhaps the quality of games goes down; I don't know, but I suspect so. Mark Bluvshtein describes one game per day as 'professional; substantially increasing the quality of the games.' You can see why: it's the format used in the Canadian Closed Championship and all World Championships.

    Money

    Were more funds raised by this method? With entry open to all, there were no more qualifiers held. Qualifiers have the potential to be big sources of funds, as kids from across Canada try for a limited number of spaces in the final round-robin. This was the original vision, which never took off. It's also a way to get broad participation across Canada - something we very much need.

    History again

    Back in 2003, I put in a bid to host the Youth and Open Championships in Toronto at the same time. This was an effort to boost CFC membership. If most of our chess players are in Toronto, then give them an event to play in. They will join or renew their CFC memberships. An open youth event in Toronto should attract a huge crowd. But my bid was turned down in favour of holding it in Kapuskasing a second year in a row.

    Future

    Ellen Nadeau (of Kapuskasing fame :-) became Junior Coordinator and re-introduced the older format of qualifying events. 2011 will be the first year they are implemented. So, we are back to the old format: a limited number of players. Therefore, getting broad participation; and raising the necessary funds to send the winners to the World Youth Championships both depend on the success of the qualifiers.

    If you accept the new rules, where the best players compete for the Canadian Championship, then it makes sense to hold this event as one game per day. Combining it with the Canadian Open on the same days also saves the Canadian chess community the rent on a 4 day CYCC, about $4,000. So, I ask that you focus your energy on making the Qualifiers a success.

    Regards,

    David

    David Cohen, IA

  8. #8

    Default Very Active 2011 CYCC Bid Debate

    The CFC Governors are having a very active debate on the confidential CFC Governors' Discussion Board, on the 2 competing 2011 CYCC bids, prior to voting starting this Friday, Nov. 19.

    Since the President, Bob Gillanders, started the debate on November 11 with his original post, there have now been 98 reply posts. And there have been 1,173 views of the thread. Numerous of the 60 governors have visited the Board, and many have posted.

    Also, to enhance the quality of debate, the governors are sending the two bid teams the confidential posts, and are accepting from the bidders posts related to the bids, and posting them on the board. The governors have gone out of their way to include the bidders in the debate.

    It's one of those times where members can see ( in a metaphysical sense ! ) what their governors do with their time !

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; 11-17-2010 at 09:56 PM.

  9. #9

    Default CYCC Toronto bid to be revised

    If the bidders are permitted to revise their bids, then the Toronto bid from CIC will be changed to a 4 day CYCC.

    There will also be a further change, to be announced to the Governors tonight. So, please hold off on your support for one bid or the other until the bids are finalized.

    Thanks,

    David

  10. #10

    Default

    Hi David:

    You'd better check with Bob G on the idea of amending bids at the 11th hour. I don't know what position the executive are taking on that and whether they are going to allow it.

    The voting is to start tomorrow according to the original posting of the bids for debate and vote.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; 11-19-2010 at 12:35 AM.

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